'Will you open fire on UK citizens' Army personnel being asked

[Peter Presland]

Magda

I am somewhat ambivalent about gun control too. However, what I DO know is that our present attitude to guns in the UK is absurd, unhealthy and grossly unjust. It is one thing to be carrying a concealed handgun in a city street; quite another to keep one at home for personal/home protection - and yet our laws makes no such distinction even though judges are allowed a minimal degree of sentencing discretion. Historically gun owners in this country have been among the most law-abiding citizens of any category. They have no objection whatever to being subjected to a rigorous licensing regime either - In fact they would demand and expect such.

In that regard it is interesting to note that the immediate proximate cause for the last draconian gun legislation was the 1996 Dunblane School massacre. The guns used were legally held. But, as it turned out, the killer, Thomas Hamilton was well known to the police and had they carried out even the most rudimentary checks in connection with his multiple licence applications there is little doubt he would not (and certainly should not) have been allowed to hold any guns legally.

There have also been mutterings about Masonic/police favours, Hamilton having been a Lodge member. Also, he was involved in numerous paedophile related complaints regarding his boys club activities - one of them from George Robertson who lived in Dunblane concerning his son. The same George Robertson who later became UK Defence Secretary and then Secretary General of NATO. It's also disturbing to note that parts of the official 'Cullen Inquiry' into the tragedy have a 100 year publication embargo on them.

I agree your characterisation of police use and handling of guns too. A cursory look at the cold-blooded public execution of Jean Charles de Menezes confirms their incompetence - or rather their knowledge that, because they will always be given the benefit of any doubt, they can afford to behave like their Chicago-style gung-ho cop heroes - which is exactly what they do when they have been sufficiently pumped up by their terrorist-fearing controllers.

[Magda Hassan]

There have also been mutterings about Masonic/police favours, Hamilton having been a Lodge member.

This I had no idea of. Did this come up in the inquiry?

Also, he was involved in numerous paedophile related complaints regarding his boys club activities - one of them from George Robertson who lived in Dunblane concerning his son. The same George Robertson who later became UK Defence Secretary and then Secretary General of NATO. It's also disturbing to note that parts of the official 'Cullen Inquiry' into the tragedy have a 100 year publication embargo on them.

This too I had no idea about. It is extraordinary that there is any secrecy involved at all for some local looney who flipped out. I don't think the Philby and MacLean documents or the Princess Margaret photos are hidden for that long. What is up here?

I agree your characterisation of police use and handling of guns too. A cursory look at the cold-blooded public execution of Jean Charles de Menezes confirms their incompetence - or rather their knowledge that, because they will always be given the benefit of any doubt, they can afford to behave like their Chicago-style gung-ho cop heroes - which is exactly what they do when they have been sufficiently pumped up by their terrorist-fearing controllers.

Didn't the police threaten to never do any armed work again if they were not absolved of this crime regardless of the findings? Might have been a good thing if some one called their bluff actually. More than the benefit of the doubt. They are holding us all hostage.

[Peter Lemkin]

...is it about the British and pedophilia [and secondarily a kind of polymorphous perversity - to use Freud's term]? Especially among the upper classes and more educated there seems to be more than the world norm. I've heard it described as due to the public [private] school system....but I've never quite figured it out. Odd as the over toasted toast that then gets scraped, as far as I'm concerned. Hope I've not offended anyone. Just my observation. I have nothing against homosexuality, but pedophilia is more than a bit predatory and manipulative, wherever found.

[Peter Presland]

Magda

I was a little rusty on Dunblane when I wrote all that. I've revisited it briefly.

Much of the evidence was freed from the 100 year embargo back in 2005 - due to continued pressure because of the alleged Masonic influences. However, 4 files remain embargoed. The official explanation is that that they contain all the post-mortem (autopsy) and medical reports which are allegedly to horrific to be seen by survivors, relatives and the rest of us. There is apparently nothing in the released evidence to substantiate - or refute - the Masonic allegations. Masonic authorities have always denied Hamilton was a member.

However, to return to the substantive issue of my original post (ie gun control) all firearms certificates required final sign of by a Deputy Chief Constable. In Hamilton's case the firearms liaison officer responsible for processing the application consulted with a colleague responsible for child protection matters. He strongly recommended that Hamiltons application be declined. The liaison officer included this recommendation in the final sign-off papers. The DCC initialled it 'no action' and agreed the renewal. That was DCC McMurdo who was a Mason. There were many other factors indicating that the certificates should not be renewed which were not followed through (lack of any bona-fide usage for one, which was clearly evidenced by his lack of ammunition purchases/usage for multiple weapons of different calibre and ammunition type which has to be logged). In other words he was in clear breach of the conditions of his existing certificate.

The result was that well over 100,000 handguns were confiscated from perfectly law-abiding citizens because of a combination of the actions of one man and dereliction of duty on the part of the police.


Peter

You'll find it difficult to offend me over alleged attributes of populations categorised by nationality - my own included. The British certainly have a lot to answer for in the court of honest history. But is there such a thing? History is lies; history - at least as taught in our schools - is written largely in the service of the Elites to form the dominant patriotic narrative is it not? In similar fashion to 'victors justice'.

Not sure I agree about the paedophilia thing though. Not least because of it's obvious epidemic proportions in Continental Europe too. Also Ireland and the US linked to the Catholic Church. On that subject it appears there is yet another damning report about Catholic Clergy abuse of young boys covering the 20 years up to 2004 about to be published. I understand there have been warnings from Irish pulpits over this weekend about it, so stand by.