The Cover-Up: How Was Movement from Phase I to Phase II Justified?

[Charles Drago]

Not a problem.

Drink a lot of water, eat a greasy hamburger, and get back to us.

[Cliff Varnell]

Not a problem.

Drink a lot of water, eat a greasy hamburger, and get back to us.

I went with the fruit cup and a carrot muffin. What can I say...I live in SF...

I gotta call bullshit on my comment that drug smuggling is always non-ideological.

I think the post WW2 urban American heroin epidemic and the crack epidemic of the 80's were engineered as A Holocaust By Another Means.

There. Frisco diet good stuff...

[John Mooney]

I gotta call bullshit on my comment...

The stuff of legends.

Fair play to you.

[Cliff Varnell]

And Varnell would like us to believe, by implication, the US has never been involved [at the Governmental Level and ABOVE] in drug dealing?!?!? :loco: There is no evidence Cuba has at the Governmental level - nor Castro - except in the planted stories by the CIA and their ilk; anti-Castro Cubans et al. Same game was played with Nicaragua under the Sandinistas, when there is ample documentation that is was 'The Enterprise' of North, Poindexter, Bush et al. who were running drugs and arms - while blaming it on the Sandanistas. Nice try Cliff......that bullshit won't be stepped in here.

Hi Peter

After giving this issue a couple days clear thought, I think a nuanced response is needed.

If Castro didn't start smuggling cocaine and marijuana thru Cuba by 1961 he was a fucking idiot.

I don't think Castro was a fucking idiot.

Look, it's not as if he were bringing heroin into his own country and then busting all the dealers and users. That has always been an American thing.

No, he took over the best smuggling real estate on the planet then had his economy embargoed and was totally dependent on Soviet Bloc/Red Chinese aid. If your northern giant of a neighbor won't do business with you -- what do you do? Smuggle contraband 90 miles away and reap as much hard currency as you need to keep your Revolution afloat.

[Magda Hassan]

... If your northern giant of a neighbor won't do business with you -- what do you do? Smuggle contraband 90 miles away and reap as much hard currency as you need to keep your Revolution afloat.

Or you open it up to the world as an exotic and unique tourist destination and get everyone's currency and support and thumb your nose at the stupid gringos up north.

[Charles Drago]

At the level Cliff would illuminate, international narco trafficking is controlled and weaponized to destroy or support economic systems, wreak havoc within cultures, and otherwise serve the larger agendas of the Great Game's players.

Or as Cliff himself states it: "I think the post WW 2 urban American heroin epidemic and the crack epidemic of the 80's were engineered as A Holocaust By Another Means."

If Castro were facilitating a significant portion of the trafficking, his actions were sanctioned and folded into a far grander scheme.

Do you believe that Castro would have a better chance of surviving independent action than JFK had? I submit that Cuba's government-controlled narcotráfico -- if it existed/exists as Cliff would describe it -- was/is conducted at the command of the same forces that took out JFK.

The deep political lessons of Dallas were not lost on Castro.

In other words, regardless of what certain Facilitators and Mechanics of the JFK assassination conspiracy were led to believe pre-hit, Castro was far more valuable alive as Cuba's head-of-state than dead or in exile.

Hence his survival and that of his regime.

[Cliff Varnell]

... If your northern giant of a neighbor won't do business with you -- what do you do? Smuggle contraband 90 miles away and reap as much hard currency as you need to keep your Revolution afloat.

Or you open it up to the world as an exotic and unique tourist destination and get everyone's currency and support and thumb your nose at the stupid gringos up north.

Or both...

[Cliff Varnell]

At the level Cliff would illuminate, international narco trafficking is controlled and weaponized to destroy or support economic systems, wreak havoc within cultures, and otherwise serve the larger agendas of the Great Game's players.

Indeed.

Heroin is ready-made weaponized. Cocaine had to be developed into crack in order to be weaponized.

Some people think LSD was weaponized in the 60's but I heartily disagree.

Wasn't alcohol weaponized against Native Americans?

The coke Castro may have been smuggling in the '60's and '70's wasn't fueling any epidemics and wasn't destablizing any societies. It would have been about the dollars for Fidel.

Cocaine in the 80's was far more "political."

Or as Cliff himself states it: "I think the post WW 2 urban American heroin epidemic and the crack epidemic of the 80's were engineered as A Holocaust By Another Means."

If Castro were facilitating a significant portion of the trafficking, his actions were sanctioned and folded into a far grander scheme.

A re-ordering to the world's narcotics market. In order to maximize profits in the drug trade there is a constant effort to eliminate as many middle-men as possible. Batista may have become a very expensive middle-man in the eyes of some. Maybe they saw Castro as a less expensive prospective partner, and financed his revolution in the hills with the aim of replacing Batista with someone less demanding.

Do you believe that Castro would have a better chance of surviving independent action than JFK had? I submit that Cuba's government-controlled narcotráfico -- if it existed/exists as Cliff would describe it -- was/is conducted at the command of the same forces that took out JFK.

The Jupiter Island Gang. W. Averell Harriman and his long-time family retainer, Prescott Bush (whose son George was a snot-nosed paper pusher who did what he was told).

The deep political lessons of Dallas were not lost on Castro.

In other words, regardless of what certain Facilitators and Mechanics of the JFK assassination conspiracy were led to believe pre-hit, Castro was far more valuable alive as Cuba's head-of-state than dead or in exile.

Hence his survival and that of his regime.

Before the JFK assassination, Castro was vulnerable. Afterwards, not at all. That he played ball with elite-level narco-trafficking is as reasonable an explanation as any, imo.

[Charles Drago]

Do you believe that Castro would have a better chance of surviving independent action than JFK had? I submit that Cuba's government-controlled narcotráfico -- if it existed/exists as Cliff would describe it -- was/is conducted at the command of the same forces that took out JFK.

The Jupiter Island Gang. W. Averell Harriman and his long-time family retainer, Prescott Bush (whose son George was a snot-nosed paper pusher who did what he was told).

As Sponsors?

Surely you jest.

Although in fact, I know you don't.

[Cliff Varnell]

Do you believe that Castro would have a better chance of surviving independent action than JFK had? I submit that Cuba's government-controlled narcotráfico -- if it existed/exists as Cliff would describe it -- was/is conducted at the command of the same forces that took out JFK.

The Jupiter Island Gang. W. Averell Harriman and his long-time family retainer, Prescott Bush (whose son George was a snot-nosed paper pusher who did what he was told).

As Sponsors?

Surely you jest.

Although in fact, I know you don't.

You do understand that the Harriman dynasty and the Rockefeller dynasty had been inter-locking since the late 19th Century when E. H. Harriman helped John D. Rockefeller gain monopoly control of the American oil industry and Rockefeller helped Harriman gain monopoly control over the American railroad industry.

They were both (as well as the Walkers and the Bushes) devoted to eugenics.

There were splits between the two, however. I think the Lovett-Bruce Report ('56, iirc) was a Harrimanite bitch at the Rockefeller-controlled actions of Dulles.

That's how I see it. I don't go for a shadowy They.