“Big Brother” may end up being very, very small

[Tracy Riddle]

I generally like Prouty, but he is not a geologist. And even on subjects related to his background, he sometimes makes claims that are not supported by the evidence. He claims that the motorcade route in Dallas should have been completely locked down with every window closed and every rooftop watched. However, there are numerous photos and videos of motorcades before Dallas (both JFK and Eisenhower) that show the same conditions as in the Dallas motorcade.

[David Guyatt]

I generally like Prouty, but he is not a geologist. And even on subjects related to his background, he sometimes makes claims that are not supported by the evidence. He claims that the motorcade route in Dallas should have been completely locked down with every window closed and every rooftop watched. However, there are numerous photos and videos of motorcades before Dallas (both JFK and Eisenhower) that show the same conditions as in the Dallas motorcade.

I once had a reader write to me to say that I had misspelled the word "Colombia", in an article I had written. This was quite true, I had. The reader went on to say that this error had, in his opinion, destroyed the veracity of my article and thus also my credibility. The piece had taken months of hard research involving all sorts of sources - but none of that mattered to him. I had to point out it was a typo, one of the daily gremlins that beset writers and journalists, especially dyslexic ones, as I was (and remain).

Like many of his essays and books, Prouty writes from a first hand perspective. I have always found that quite refreshing. I tend to prefer personal experience from a credible participant when it is available. I have usually been struck by Prouty's honesty too.

His experiences in the foregoing article seems to me to be also based on personal observation - plus some general - but not specific understanding - of the subject matter. It was an on the ground report, for want of a better description - and must've been one of many similar others he had written for senior officers during his Pentagon days.

I don't see that this in any way disqualifies his obervations or experiences.

No one is perfect. Humans are flawed creatures by definition. Errors of judgement or observation happen all the time.

Reaching a judgement is, I think, all about weighing the evidence, the personal experiences, the person, their deductions, and reaching a decision based on the the weight of probability.

This simply reflects my own personal philosophy about judging the credibility of writers and journalists. It is by my own foregoing definition flawed.

I also like Prouty. Quite a lot, in fact.

[Dawn Meredith]

I generally like Prouty, but he is not a geologist. And even on subjects related to his background, he sometimes makes claims that are not supported by the evidence. He claims that the motorcade route in Dallas should have been completely locked down with every window closed and every rooftop watched. However, there are numerous photos and videos of motorcades before Dallas (both JFK and Eisenhower) that show the same conditions as in the Dallas motorcade.

I once had a reader write to me to say that I had misspelled the word "Colombia", in an article I had written. This was quite true, I had. The reader went on to say that this error had, in his opinion, destroyed the veracity of my article and thus also my credibility. The piece had taken months of hard research involving all sorts of sources - but none of that mattered to him. I had to point out it was a typo, one of the daily gremlins that beset writers and journalists, especially dyslexic ones, as I was (and remain).

Like many of his essays and books, Prouty writes from a first hand perspective. I have always found that quite refreshing. I tend to prefer personal experience from a credible participant when it is available. I have usually been struck by Prouty's honesty too.

His experiences in the foregoing article seems to me to be also based on personal observation - plus some general - but not specific understanding - of the subject matter. It was an on the ground report, for want of a better description - and must've been one of many similar others he had written for senior officers during his Pentagon days.

I don't see that this in any way disqualifies his obervations or experiences.


No one is perfect. Humans are flawed creatures by definition. Errors of judgement or observation happen all the time.

Reaching a judgement is, I think, all about weighing the evidence, the personal experiences, the person, their deductions, and reaching a decision based on the the weight of probability.

This simply reflects my own personal philosophy about judging the credibility of writers and journalists. It is by my own foregoing definition flawed.

I also like Prouty. Quite a lot, in fact.

Damn David, what a tool. If I was judged on the typos I make daily I'd be in serious trouble. I am always in such a rush, am a terrible typist and need to better edit before hitting send.
I too enjoy Prouty's first person style. He really takes you on a ride. Wish there were many more insiders like he was willing to share. I was always amazed he remained alive to tell.

Dawn

[Adele Edisen]

Today I came back to this topic and saw all the requests for information. To save time, I urge everyone to go to Google and search for "abiotic oil production."

Here is Kenney's paper from the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science, 2002. a paper I referenced in the Rich DellaRosa forum:

http://www.pnas.org/content/99/17/10976.full.pdf+html

An easier to read version: http://www.pnas.org/content/99/17/10976.full

One reason oil corporations like the biotic idea of oil production is that it makes oil a scarce product, so its prices can be set quite high. Also, that's a very old Russian idea from the 18th Century.

After WWII, Russian oil fields were running dry, so their geologists dug deeper wells and found oil below the levels where life had formed. Obviously then, living matter was not the source of oil.
The new hypothesis of abiotixc oil production developed in the early 1950s to explain this new souorce of oil.

I met a retired oil geologist here in Texas who told me about this abiotic idea, and that was the first time I had heard of such an idea.

Thanks, Magda, and Jim, for that Prouty piece.

In the fourth section, the thermodynamic Affinity developed using this formalism establishes that the hydrocarbon molecules peculiar to natural petroleum are high-pressure polymorphs of the HC system, similarly as diamond and lonsdaleite are to graphite for the elemental carbon system, and evolve only in thermodynamic regimes of pressures greater than 2550 kbar (1 kbar = 100 MPa).

The fifth section reports the experimental results obtained using equipment specially designed to test the predictions of the previous sections. Application of pressures to 50 kbar and temperatures to 1,500°C upon solid (and obviously abiotic) CaCO3 and FeO wet with triple-distilled water, all in the absence of any initial hydrocarbon or biotic molecules, evolves the suite of petroleum fluids: methane, ethane, propane, butane, pentane, hexane, branched isomers of those compounds, and the lightest of the n-alkene series.

Adele

[Tracy Riddle]

That's fine, you can all believe whatever you like. No one attempted to refute the points I made in my earlier post, though. And I wasn't criticizing Prouty over a typo error, but on claims he made that weren't backed up by evidence. But when they decide to do fracking in your backyard, you can tell them all about abiotic oil. :hobbyhorse:

[David Guyatt]

Tracy, I'd be grateful if you can provide chapter and verse re Prouty's motorcade argument.

Thanks,

David

[Magda Hassan]

I generally like Prouty, but he is not a geologist. And even on subjects related to his background, he sometimes makes claims that are not supported by the evidence. He claims that the motorcade route in Dallas should have been completely locked down with every window closed and every rooftop watched. However, there are numerous photos and videos of motorcades before Dallas (both JFK and Eisenhower) that show the same conditions as in the Dallas motorcade.

I agree that Prouty is no geologist and neither am I. But he knows how some like the game played and was part of some aspects of that game too. And it is the monopolisation and manipulation of a so called scarce resource that interests me. It is still an interesting article. I still need to know more about abiotic oil and look forward to reading some of Adele's linked articles.

[Tracy Riddle]

Tracy, I'd be grateful if you can provide chapter and verse re Prouty's motorcade argument.

Thanks,

David

David, if you're familiar with Prouty, you know that he is the source of the claim in Stone's JFK that there should have been a military presence along the motorcade route. There are video interviews and articles by him where he claims that every window of every building should have been closed and watched, with people on walkie-talkies and rifles ready to pounce on any security violation. Common sense tells you that just wouldn't be possible, but we also have photos and videos of earlier motorcades showing people hanging out of windows. Here's one from Hawaii:

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc151...rcade2.jpg

One from Ireland:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/cork.jpg

Sorry to link to lone-nutters, but when something is obviously wrong, we shouldn't waste any more time on it.

Just because you like someone, doesn't mean they're right about everything and knowledgeable about every subject.

[Tracy Riddle]

I generally like Prouty, but he is not a geologist. And even on subjects related to his background, he sometimes makes claims that are not supported by the evidence. He claims that the motorcade route in Dallas should have been completely locked down with every window closed and every rooftop watched. However, there are numerous photos and videos of motorcades before Dallas (both JFK and Eisenhower) that show the same conditions as in the Dallas motorcade.

I agree that Prouty is no geologist and neither am I. But he knows how some like the game played and was part of some aspects of that game too. And it is the monopolisation and manipulation of a so called scarce resource that interests me. It is still an interesting article. I still need to know more about abiotic oil and look forward to reading some of Adele's linked articles.

We live on a finite world, and most of the resources on it are limited or at least impractical for humans to reach. Rare earth metals and minerals used in high technology are a good example. If they are renewed, it is in geological time, not human time.

I recommend reading these skeptical articles as well:

http://www.resilience.org/stories/2004-1...ontroversy
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww..._pt1.shtml

We shouldn't believe in a conspiracy because we like how it sounds, or because it fits with our ideology, but because the evidence supports it. A good example is Webster Tarpley, who I like on political/historical subjects, but he's basically a cornucopian on economics and resource issues because it fits his political world view. History shows that Nature will not conform itself to accommodate our ideologies.

[David Guyatt]

Tracy, I'd be grateful if you can provide chapter and verse re Prouty's motorcade argument.

Thanks,

David

David, if you're familiar with Prouty, you know that he is the source of the claim in Stone's JFK that there should have been a military presence along the motorcade route. There are video interviews and articles by him where he claims that every window of every building should have been closed and watched, with people on walkie-talkies and rifles ready to pounce on any security violation. Common sense tells you that just wouldn't be possible, but we also have photos and videos of earlier motorcades showing people hanging out of windows. Here's one from Hawaii:

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc151...rcade2.jpg

One from Ireland:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/cork.jpg

Sorry to link to lone-nutters, but when something is obviously wrong, we shouldn't waste any more time on it.

Just because you like someone, doesn't mean they're right about everything and knowledgeable about every subject.

Thank you Tracy. See my PM