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Q re Harvey and Lee
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04-03-2014, 03:32 PM
Jim Hargrove Wrote:John's take seems to me to be the most simple one out there--no Rashomon comparisons needed. Lee framed Harvey. If not Lee, who? As far as the Tippit murder is concerned, it's only simple if you exclude evidence that doesn't match JA's theory. I've tried to look at all of the evidence, which is why it's still a Rashomon case. 
04-03-2014, 05:17 PM
Jim Hargrove Wrote:Tracy Riddle Wrote:Jim & Dawn, I think we discussed this on another thread and I don't really want to rehash it all here. But Joseph McBride's book does the best job I've seen of pulling together all of the Tippit murder Rashomon. I think there were at least two men involved, and possibly another vehicle. From what I remember, JA doesn't really deal with all of that evidence because it doesn't fit the "Lee pretending to be Harvey" theory. I guess we shall have to agree to disagree. I LOVED Joe's book and think he is a terrific guy, but on this matter I side with JA. It just makes so much more sense and also does not employ the Gary Mack invention of Badge Man. Dawn And I fear we are falling into the micro analysis trap long ago expressed by Vince Salandria. Point being the Patsy- Harvey- did not shoot anyone, including Tippit.
04-03-2014, 05:49 PM
Dawn Meredith Wrote:Jim Hargrove Wrote:Tracy Riddle Wrote:Jim & Dawn, I think we discussed this on another thread and I don't really want to rehash it all here. But Joseph McBride's book does the best job I've seen of pulling together all of the Tippit murder Rashomon. I think there were at least two men involved, and possibly another vehicle. From what I remember, JA doesn't really deal with all of that evidence because it doesn't fit the "Lee pretending to be Harvey" theory. I totally disagree with McBride's theory about Badgeman. I'm just talking about the Tippit murder, which McBride doesn't come to any definite conclusions about (other than Oswald didn't do it). I agree that we can get lost too much in the microanalysis, and then we start fighting with each other, which doesn't accomplish anything.
04-03-2014, 07:09 PM
Just a thought...
Had it occurred to anyone that HARVEY might have been a good "agent" falling on his sword for the good of the cause? "Agent" of whom remaining the biggest secret of them all. That he had infultrated the FBI/CIA, was a double like Nagell, was working both sides and yells "I am a Patsy" as opposed to "I am innocent" while not giving a single thing away in 2 days of questioning... a "Patsy" believes he is set up by outside forces, real or imagined... http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/LHO.html - "The Last Words of Lee HARVEY Oswald" 7:50 P.M. Lineup for Witness J. D. Davis "I have been dressed differently than the other three. . . . Don't you know the difference? I still have on the same clothes I was arrested in. The other two were prisoners, already in jail." Seth Kantor, reporter, heard Oswald yell, "I am only a patsy." Is there any indication in any of his actual words as we can know them, that he accused anyone of setting him up as a Patsy? His role was Patsy from the moment it did not happen in Chicago or Tampa or anywhere else for that matter, and HARVEY knew it, and played his part to perfection... while getting his place in history... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1848157.stm Referring to the report by the Warren Commission, "it was the greatest hoax that has ever been perpetuated," Nixon said. He did not elaborate why he questioned the report.
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
04-03-2014, 09:36 PM
Quote:Had it occurred to anyone that HARVEY might have been a good "agent" falling on his sword for the good of the cause? "Agent" of whom remaining the biggest secret of them all. Interesting angle. Douglass hints that LHO was actually a good guy who got played. I suspect that he was part of the plot and got played. Along your lines, he could have been told, 'Don't worry. There won't be enough evidence to convict you. We'll fix that. You'll walk. Then you'll disappear and live a good life.' And then he becomes like Cypher @1:35
"We'll know our disinformation campaign is complete when everything the American public believes is false." --William J. Casey, D.C.I
"We will lead every revolution against us." --Theodore Herzl
05-03-2014, 01:36 AM
Can't figure out which alphabet government agency sponsored the Lee Harvey Oswald project? How about a wild guess for the CIA?
CIA Accountant James Wilcott, in sworn testimony to the HSCA: Mr. Wilcott. The specific incident was soon after the Kennedy assassination, where an agent, a Case Officer--I am sure it was a Case Officer--came up to my window to draw money, and he specifically said in the conversation that ensued, he specifically said, "Well, Jim, the money that I drew the last couple of weeks ago or so was money" either for the Oswald project or for Oswald. . . . . Mr. Goldsmith. How many people made this reference to Oswald being an agent of the CIA? Mr. Wilcott. At least--there was at least six or seven people, specifically, who said that they either knew or believed Oswald to be an agent of the CIA. ----------------------------------------- Former CIA agent Joseph Newbrough said, "Oswald was an agent for the CIA and acting under orders." ----------------------------------------- CIA employee Donald Deneslya read reports of a CIA agent who had worked at a radio factory in Minsk and returned to the US with a Russian wife and child--that agent could only have been Oswald. ----------------------------------------- Richard Sprague, chief counsel to the U.S. House Select Committee on Assassinations said, "If he had it to do over again, he would begin his investigation of the Kennedy assassination by probing 'Oswald's ties to the Central Intelligence Agency." ----------------------------------------- Marvin Watson, an adviser to President Lyndon Johnson, said that Johnson had told him that he was convinced that there was a plot in connection with the assassination. Watson said the President felt the CIA had something to do with this plot. ----------------------------------------- In 1996 former HSCA counsel Robert Tanenbaum told the ARRB, "the major area, and I can't overemphasize this, focused on the government and what the government knew about Lee Harvey Oswald... and what the CIA was doing with Lee Harvey Oswald. Jim
05-03-2014, 02:34 AM
Sorry Jim...
All this means to me is that the grand deception worked.... What about the $200/month he was getting from the FBI? How is that not as important or even more so given the FPCC association was an FBI operation. Are you prepared to say with surety that these documents/conclusions are NOT based on a plan to associate HARVEY with the CIA to further insulate say, the ONI for example or to further insure cooperation and silence? Do you think the JFK assassination had anything to do with placing HARVEY OSWALD in the USSR, getting him married and getting him out? ... if HARVEY is who John, or rather the EVIDENCE says he was, HARVEY was a communist USSR/KBG asset who infultrated BOTH the CIA and FBI... while taking the entire focus of the assassination away from those who actually did it... (that boy in NYC who became Lee HARVEY Oswald was born to Hungarian Communists and was supported by communists... when did that origin get forgotten in place of his being a CIA asset?) the KGB and Russia's representation in their Mil Ind 'Congressional' Complex was just as against ending the Cold war as our alphabet agencies... The Sponsors are beyond borders... beyond countries, yet obviously represent the countries of their citizenship... Is it fair to say that the Rockefellers are "Americans" simply because they are born here? Or is it more accurate to call them World Citizens imposing their will on sovereign nations at their whim and for their own profit and expansion of power? ==== PLEASE do not take this the wrong way. H&L study is important. but it's not all about the JFK assassiantion by any means... analysis that remains closed within that box is doomed to forever be about the leaves... while the tree remains hidden from sight.
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
05-03-2014, 02:51 AM
Hi, David,
Hope you can soon set up a website for your H&L posts, especially your graphics. They are wonderful, and we could help each other gather hits. Please post any SPECIFIC evidence you have that Lee Harvey Oswald was sponsored by any other Agency than the CIA. Here, again, is some of my evidence: JIm Can't figure out which alphabet government agency sponsored the Lee Harvey Oswald project? How about a wild guess for the CIA?
CIA Accountant James Wilcott, in sworn testimony to the HSCA: Mr. Wilcott. The specific incident was soon after the Kennedy assassination, where an agent, a Case Officer--I am sure it was a Case Officer--came up to my window to draw money, and he specifically said in the conversation that ensued, he specifically said, "Well, Jim, the money that I drew the last couple of weeks ago or so was money" either for the Oswald project or for Oswald. . . . . Mr. Goldsmith. How many people made this reference to Oswald being an agent of the CIA? Mr. Wilcott. At least--there was at least six or seven people, specifically, who said that they either knew or believed Oswald to be an agent of the CIA. ----------------------------------------- Former CIA agent Joseph Newbrough said, "Oswald was an agent for the CIA and acting under orders." ----------------------------------------- CIA employee Donald Deneslya read reports of a CIA agent who had worked at a radio factory in Minsk and returned to the US with a Russian wife and child--that agent could only have been Oswald. ----------------------------------------- Richard Sprague, chief counsel to the U.S. House Select Committee on Assassinations said, "If he had it to do over again, he would begin his investigation of the Kennedy assassination by probing 'Oswald's ties to the Central Intelligence Agency." ----------------------------------------- Marvin Watson, an adviser to President Lyndon Johnson, said that Johnson had told him that he was convinced that there was a plot in connection with the assassination. Watson said the President felt the CIA had something to do with this plot. ----------------------------------------- In 1996 former HSCA counsel Robert Tanenbaum told the ARRB, "the major area, and I can't overemphasize this, focused on the government and what the government knew about Lee Harvey Oswald... and what the CIA was doing with Lee Harvey Oswald. Jim 
05-03-2014, 07:52 AM
Jim Hargrove Wrote:Lauren Johnson Wrote:@#16 Excuse my ignorance, but did Harvey and Lee interact in any way? I think that Harvey's conflicting statements when being questioned regarding taking the bus and cab and his inference about what he assumes is Ruth Paine's car picking up the "guy" at the TSBD indicate that he probably knew he had a double, whether they interacted - who knows? 
05-03-2014, 08:23 AM
From my research and understanding the Oswald composite was/were creatures connected at the same time to more than one agency - I'd say likely three, but perhaps more: FBI, CIA, ONI, possibly Customs, possibly others and certainly in off-the-shelf compartmentalized operation[s] which by their nature sometimes do not let the agent[s] know which agency[ies] are running them. I think the one person willing in part to help untangle this was Nagell - and that is why he was finally done in and his footlocker made to disappear. As for either Oswald having been a real agent of any other country, I don't see that evidence - but as a double agent it is theoretically possible - anything is in this matter. Nagell apparently was a double agent, but I think his allegiance was always to the US.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn "If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass |
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