Detailed discussion and analysis of the H&L evidence

[Peter Lemkin]

Calling all moderators

Be careful David.When I called for the moderators recently I was snitch-jacketed by member James Norwood.Of course,he was called out for it...NOT

By the way, almost no one knows, but one can notify the moderators by clicking on the triangle with the ! in it at the bottom of the post panel.

[Albert Doyle]

We have the advantage of hindsight, but in reading these testimonies, oh the opportunity for Lorenz to interject "Mr Fithian, you're a representative of government. Haven't you ever heard of intelligence agencies using doubles? Shouldn't you be investigating that instead of me?"

[Dawn Meredith]

Great points Jim. DJ I don't think you can sum up in a single post. It is the totality of the evidence that makes the case.
I wonder if those in disagreement realize that Judy Baker is one of them. And what they make of that.
But I am keeping out of the arguments. I'm a believer, and John is now a good friend so I am also biased. But said bias
was way before we became friends from reading most of the book. (Which I am re-reading, time permitted when not dealing with problem people here.)

Dawn

[Jim Hargrove]

There is a document from the 1970s that kind of corroborates Lorenz's testimony that one Oswald was active in Florida and Louisiana anti-Castro activities while the other Oswald was in Russia. The sources of the information on this one are a little murky, but it apparently interested a Deputy U.S. Atty General sufficiently to make inquiries with the FBI. The allegations involved, or may have originated from, Clare Boothe Luce, heir to the Life magazine publishing fortune of Henry Luce and a one-time Congresswoman.

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[Duncan Pillans]

For me this H&L business is one of the more interesting aspects of the JFK assassination conspiracy, along with the Secret Service's non-performance on that infamous day.

My apologies if my questions below are already answered elsewhere.

1. How did the people running project Oswald know that Lee and Harvey's faces would remain so similar when they matured?
   

People's faces can change from childhood to adulthood. An example is my nephew, now 24. It was only, perhaps, in the last 5 years that he started to look like his father in the face. Before that he never did resemble his dad except his height. The degree to which this happens varies from person to person. Maybe they thought it was worth the gamble nothing to lose in trying.

1. Did Lee's brothers Robert and John Pic know of the project? Or were they just friends with Harvey?
   

I've seen a photo of what is claimed to be Robert and John Pic along with either Lee or Harvey and Marina sitting on a sofa in someone's living room. The website is Spartacus Educational. Moreover, in the Harvey and Lee' article, it is claimed that Robert not only took the Bronx Zoo photo of Harvey in 1953 but three years later actually lived with him. At the funeral of Harvey there is a photo of what is claimed to be a Richard but at the moment I am unsure who this Robert is the server is down. Maybe it is another Richard.

If they were just friends, I wonder what Robert and John Pic thought of Harvey being so similar to their brother, as well as the fact that Harvey's mother had the same name as their own both first and last names? That is if they knew of her first name.

[Drew Phipps]

Jim: Do you have the next page of the document? The last line talks about "firing darts at a target..."

[Drew Phipps]

There's a picture of Lee Harvey Oswald in his Arlington Heights high school yearbook that is recognizably him, in the yearbook for the school year he didn't finish in order to join the Marines. It's not one of the photos that everyone has at the back (he might have left school prior to that), it's larger and towards the front. The caption underneath talks about him and a girl (also pictured) doing something having to do with hypnotism. If you guys are interested I'll relocate the picture.

[David Josephs]

For me this H&L business is one of the more interesting aspects of the JFK assassination conspiracy, along with the Secret Service's non-performance on that infamous day.

My apologies if my questions below are already answered elsewhere.

1. How did the people running project Oswald know that Lee and Harvey's faces would remain so similar when they matured?
   

People's faces can change from childhood to adulthood. An example is my nephew, now 24. It was only, perhaps, in the last 5 years that he started to look like his father in the face. Before that he never did resemble his dad except his height. The degree to which this happens varies from person to person. Maybe they thought it was worth the gamble nothing to lose in trying.

1. Did Lee's brothers Robert and John Pic know of the project? Or were they just friends with Harvey?
   

I've seen a photo of what is claimed to be Robert and John Pic along with either Lee or Harvey and Marina sitting on a sofa in someone's living room. The website is Spartacus Educational. Moreover, in the Harvey and Lee' article, it is claimed that Robert not only took the Bronx Zoo photo of Harvey in 1953 but three years later actually lived with him. At the funeral of Harvey there is a photo of what is claimed to be a Richard but at the moment I am unsure who this Robert is the server is down. Maybe it is another Richard.

If they were just friends, I wonder what Robert and John Pic thought of Harvey being so similar to their brother, as well as the fact that Harvey's mother had the same name as their own both first and last names? That is if they knew of her first name.

Regarding the second #1 - We feel that Robert not only knew but was part of the plan... John is a bit more trouble as he identifies LEE from HARVEY at every turn and in turn creates conflicts with Robert's timeline.

I highly suggest you read John and Robert's testimonies for the WCR.... Robert completely forgets about his visit in 1952 that happened according to John... while the Bronx zoo photo is definitely HARVEY (the inset if of LEE in 6th grade, 5'4" 115lb and the leader of his class and friends. It has been offered that Robert impersonated LEE as LEE had gotten so big so young...

Cheers - Hope this helps a little.
DJ

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Regarding the first #1 - We can only speculate...

A thought that occurred to me was that the entire charade was created looking backward in time when LEE and HARVEY already looked somewhat alike, starting in 1957... yet we know that there were many activities based on connecting LEE and HARVEY starting in 1952 in NYC, so there had to be some forward thinking being done as well (it just did not matter whether the boys grew up looking alike as they would never be seen together - the idea was to create a "proveable" past for the spy to be.)

We do not have any photos of LEE after 1959, and what we do have of that last photo, I did this comparison to HARVEY - I also find that their body posture was very different as well:
But you do raise one of the $64K questions... they do look eerily alike...

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[Jim Hargrove]

Jim: Do you have the next page of the document? The last line talks about "firing darts at a target..."

Here are pages two and three of the memo. Note the reference to Luce and the Garrison investigation on page 2.

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I got these pages from the online Baylor University collection of John Armstrong's documents, an invaluable source of information for anyone interested in source material on Lee Harvey Oswald. The Clare Booth Luce tab has 16 pages of pretty interesting stuff and is available here.

Jim

[Duncan Pillans]

Many thanks David for your prompt reply, I appreciate it. Yes indeed, this is very helpful and equally interesting. I am still digesting it.

Another thing, this lady cashier in the Texas Theater, Julia Postal - I searched her name on MFF's WC document but I did not quite get what I wanted. Is the claim that Harvey purchased a ticket from her prior to entering the cinema, and quite possibly before or at the same time when Tippit was murdered (not surprised if this claim is excluded from the WC report) ... is this claim based upon her breaking down and sobbing, twice refusing to answer the question put to her whether Harvey bought a ticket from her at or around 13:07/13:08? Or did she confirm this elsewhere? In my opinion, for what it is worth, if the answer is only the former then so be it. She could have just said no and why get upset about it? Unless of course, it was true Harvey did purchase a ticket previous to Lee's later arrival and she could not say under duress? Then her behaviour makes sense. Poor woman - I hope she was not bumped off too.