It appears that Michael Paine was receiving monthly checks from JM Forbes and Co. in the amount of $285.00 every month. It is interesting that the start of these payments seems to correspond with Ruth Paine's trip to New Orleans to pick up Marina Oswald and return her to Dallas.
Late summer 1963: Ruth Paine has taken her kids on a rambling tour of the South.
August 7, 1963: Paine pays $3000.00 to "Jack Arnold" (unknown man in Dallas)
(circa) August 20, 1963: Michael Paine flies round trip to Los Angeles.
September 19, 1963: First check from JM Forbes.
September 20, 1963: Ruth Paine arrives New Orleans.
September 22, 1963: Ruth and Marina depart New Orleans.
October 18, 1963: Second check From JM Forbes.
November 18, 1963: Third check from JM Forbes.
November 22, 1963: The assassination
November 26, 1963: The FBI investigates Paine's bank account and obtains the above information.
There is $ 2529.00 left in the account. It is unknown from the FBI report if there had been other payments from Forbes to Paine, that predate or post date this period of time, although the FBI's discovery of other financial transactions that predate August 19, 1963 would imply that there was no payment on or about 8/19/63.
JM Forbes and Company, as you may know, are "yes, THOSE Forbes'." Forbes' fortunes were built on trade with China, including opium, as the Forbes' were bookkeepers and ship captains for the Russell business. When British ships were denied permission to sell opium during the opium wars, Russell and Forbes ships (with American flags) could carry the forbidden substance the final few miles to the markets. Michael Paine was a descendant of the Forbes family. Secretary of State Kerry is also a Forbes descendant, and Yale U. "Skull and Bones" member (founded by the Russell family).
Fixed monthly payments generally aren't dividends (quarterly), nor interest (which generally fluctuates), but might be some sort of pension (though Paine was still young), or fixed return investment like bonds, both of which are currently (2014) managed by Forbes. A fixed return of $3420 a year in 1963 would be worth $ 25,000.00 today, not the investment income expected from a working man.
"All that is necessary for tyranny to succeed is for good men to do nothing." (unknown)
James Tracy: "There is sometimes an undue amount of paranoia among some conspiracy researchers that can contribute to flawed observations and analysis."
Gary Cornwell (Dept. Chief Counsel HSCA): "A fact merely marks the point at which we have agreed to let investigation cease."
Alan Ford: "Just because you believe it, that doesn't make it so."
Wow, Drew, we are talking some serious coin here. That $285 in 1963 dollars would mean he would have a monthly cheque coming in worth $2,083 in today's dollars; a nice little supplement to his income! How much would Ruth Paine's bungalow have gone for in 1963?
Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.
Warren Commission testimony of Secret Service Agent Clinton J. Hill, 1964
I'd be more interested that it is in Oswald's 201 file, than that it is about someone (likely) paying Paine for a "job" being done! [if in fact that is where it was - as the title of the thread implies - also, these are FBI files and a 201 is a CIA file - please clarify].
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
Peter Lemkin Wrote:I'd be more interested that it is in Oswald's 201 file, than that it is about someone (likely) paying Paine for a "job" being done! [if in fact that is where it was - as the title of the thread implies - also, these are FBI files and a 201 is a CIA file - please clarify].
Not that many years ago we were told that there existed NO 201 file one Oswald. I'm assuming this is a CIA 201 file. So gee, how did Saint Mary obtain it? (Hey Joe McBride time for you to chime in here
Peter: You may be right. I was searching in the "Oswald 201 file" for information about Ralph Yates and Dempsey Jones (since the psychiatric business seemed more CIA than FBI), and upon re-tracing my steps it appears that I got sent to the FBI Headquarters file 105-82555 Section 21. I have exceeded my search limits on that site this AM but I will post a link to the documents and their location on the Mary Ferrell site when I am able.
There IS a CIA 201 Oswald file on Mary Ferrell 's site and you can see as much of it as the CIA disclosed on her website.
"All that is necessary for tyranny to succeed is for good men to do nothing." (unknown)
James Tracy: "There is sometimes an undue amount of paranoia among some conspiracy researchers that can contribute to flawed observations and analysis."
Gary Cornwell (Dept. Chief Counsel HSCA): "A fact merely marks the point at which we have agreed to let investigation cease."
Alan Ford: "Just because you believe it, that doesn't make it so."
14-07-2014, 04:50 PM (This post was last modified: 14-07-2014, 06:19 PM by Peter Lemkin.)
Dawn Meredith Wrote:
Peter Lemkin Wrote:I'd be more interested that it is in Oswald's 201 file, than that it is about someone (likely) paying Paine for a "job" being done! [if in fact that is where it was - as the title of the thread implies - also, these are FBI files and a 201 is a CIA file - please clarify].
Not that many years ago we were told that there existed NO 201 file one Oswald. I'm assuming this is a CIA 201 file. So gee, how did Saint Mary obtain it? (Hey Joe McBride time for you to chime in here
Dawn
It is true that at one time the CIA was denying any 201 file for Oswald, but then it admitted there was one. There are others more expert on it than I, but if memory serves me, most parts of it were withheld; and parts of it, logically, had 'disappeared' or been said to have at some point. Maybe many who speak of the '201 File' are referring to the pre-11/22/63 portion only.
I remember having seen some pages from it, redacted. It is not impossible for other agency documents to exist in a CIA file, but rare in a 201 File. I see on the internet at the EF that someone reports it was: two full filing cabinets, sixteen cubic feet of files were in Lee Harvey Oswald's original CIA 201 file! [i.e. very, VERY large!] I also see a 2006 post by Rex Bradford saying it was being put up bit by bit...and it now seems to be quite a few bits, indeed.....without looking through all this yet, I see on the MFF site the following - which seems amazingly large! Something has changed drastically in recent years! I will look through it soon. (anyone up on this please pipe in!):
Oswald 201 File (201-289248)
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 99%"]This collection is the voluminous CIA "201" file (also known as a "personality" file) on Lee Henry (sic) Oswald. The file was opened in December 1960 and contains a small set of pre-assassination records. After the assassination, this file became a repository for much of the CIA's investigative work, and grew into the massive file available here. Portions of the 201 file were obtained at different times, so documents in some volumes feature RIF header sheets, and documents in volumes obtained earlier do not.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
Albert Doyle Wrote:I wonder what Otepka got that required his safe to be broken in to?
That is discussed by Mellon, who did great research on Otepka in her book.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
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