Lyndon Johnson and Mac Wallace - by Joan Mellen

[R.K. Locke]

No sane, well-versed, well-read researcher that I hang out with gives any credence to 'LBJ did it' - neither does Mellen, by the way; however, since the first talk about the Wallace fingerprints on a box in the TSBD, all of them thought that it was a way to control LBJ, not that Wallace was a shooter or involved in the plot. LBJ was, of course, one of those who benefited greatly, and had hated/feared JFK and his brothers anyway. However, the evidence shows others were involved and LBJ was merely controlled and used as another useful idiot. The endless tripe of 'LBJ as mastermind' is either lack of information, lack of insight of the big picture, or disinformation.

Well said, Peter, although I would tend to see the Wallace "fingerprint" as pure disinformation. LBJ was sufficiently compromised by the TFX scandal/Bobby Baker and any number of other things to render his compliance all but certain. All that the purported evidence of Wallace's involvement does is facilitate the "LBJ mastermind" false sponsorship lie.

[Dawn Meredith]

No sane, well-versed, well-read researcher that I hang out with gives any credence to 'LBJ did it' - neither does Mellen, by the way; however, since the first talk about the Wallace fingerprints on a box in the TSBD, all of them thought that it was a way to control LBJ, not that Wallace was a shooter or involved in the plot. LBJ was, of course, one of those who benefited greatly, and had hated/feared JFK and his brothers anyway. However, the evidence shows others were involved and LBJ was merely controlled and used as another useful idiot. The endless tripe of 'LBJ as mastermind' is either lack of information, lack of insight of the big picture, or disinformation.

Well said, Peter, although I would tend to see the Wallace "fingerprint" as pure disinformation. LBJ was sufficiently compromised by the TFX scandal/Bobby Baker and any number of other things to render his compliance all but certain. All that the purported evidence of Wallace's involvement does is facilitate the "LBJ mastermind" false sponsorship lie.

I respectfully disagree. And more importantly J never saw LBJ as the mastermind, but involved.

[Marc Ellis]

No sane, well-versed, well-read researcher that I hang out with gives any credence to 'LBJ did it' - neither does Mellen, by the way; however, since the first talk about the Wallace fingerprints on a box in the TSBD, all of them thought that it was a way to control LBJ, not that Wallace was a shooter or involved in the plot. LBJ was, of course, one of those who benefited greatly, and had hated/feared JFK and his brothers anyway. However, the evidence shows others were involved and LBJ was merely controlled and used as another useful idiot. The endless tripe of 'LBJ as mastermind' is either lack of information, lack of insight of the big picture, or disinformation.

Well said, Peter, although I would tend to see the Wallace "fingerprint" as pure disinformation. LBJ was sufficiently compromised by the TFX scandal/Bobby Baker and any number of other things to render his compliance all but certain. All that the purported evidence of Wallace's involvement does is facilitate the "LBJ mastermind" false sponsorship lie.

I respectfully disagree. And more importantly J never saw LBJ as the mastermind, but involved.

Agree with Dawn. He benefited. LBJ worked, cheated, stole and killed all his life for the job. He hated Bobby. He resented both brothers.

I have no hard evidence. But LBJ as a sponsor or facilitator makes sense. Using Mac Wallace on the 6th floor of the TSBD makes no sense to me. It's fraught with risk. This wasn't just a Texas sand-bagging operation. For a job like that, sponsors need professional mechanics who know what they are doing.

As a facilitator, I would want to hire mechanics who weren't US citizens. From LBJ's POV, the last place he'd want to hire one from should be Texas - especially his own political operative. That would be unbelievably stupid.

[Magda Hassan]

I have no hard evidence. But LBJ as a sponsor or facilitator makes sense.

Definitely not sponsor. LBJ was only ever a handmaiden for others higher up the food chain. There is some evidence for him having after the fact knowledge and he played a role in the cover up but highly unlikely to ever have been involved in the planning or execution stages. It wasn't his show. Others were directing. He had a walk on role which he played well.

[Scott Kaiser]

Would a person who "Mastermind" a coup be looking over his own shoulder in fear of his own assassination? Would the person who greatly "benefited" as president also announce he would NOT run a second term? I believe if there is any thread that should be locked, stored and put on the back shelf is this one.

Or, does it really do the mind any good to re-hash/visit defamation of information?

[Tom Bowden]

I have never believed LBJ was the mastermind or even facilitator before the fact. However, too much emphasis has been placed on Wallace being a political operative of LBJ. He certainly was during the 40's and 50's for various reasons including the fact that he was fooling around with Josefa. However by the early 60's he had become a liability and an embarrassment with his drinking and carousing. Cliff Carter was apparently his only friend in the inner circle. I am sure he was trying to find a way to ingratiate himself back into his 1950's role.

[Albert Doyle]

Don't forget Johnson's trying to shuffle the seat assignments in the motorcade. The sponsors probably played up to Johnson's ego knowing he would be the president who covered their plans.

[Peter Lemkin]

No sane, well-versed, well-read researcher that I hang out with gives any credence to 'LBJ did it' - neither does Mellen, by the way; however, since the first talk about the Wallace fingerprints on a box in the TSBD, all of them thought that it was a way to control LBJ, not that Wallace was a shooter or involved in the plot. LBJ was, of course, one of those who benefited greatly, and had hated/feared JFK and his brothers anyway. However, the evidence shows others were involved and LBJ was merely controlled and used as another useful idiot. The endless tripe of 'LBJ as mastermind' is either lack of information, lack of insight of the big picture, or disinformation.

Well said, Peter, although I would tend to see the Wallace "fingerprint" as pure disinformation. LBJ was sufficiently compromised by the TFX scandal/Bobby Baker and any number of other things to render his compliance all but certain. All that the purported evidence of Wallace's involvement does is facilitate the "LBJ mastermind" false sponsorship lie.

I respectfully disagree. And more importantly J never saw LBJ as the mastermind, but involved.

Well, I don't know what part you are disagreeing with, but I never said that LBJ was NOT involved. I personally believe he was - but only a little. His main role was with the cover-up, after. It does seem to me there is evidence he knew of the plot sometime before - but it was not his plot or plotting that made it happen - and he certainly didn't 'mastermind it'. It just fit his fiddle fine and he [like Hoover and many others] did nothing to stop it, and in LBJ's case, perhaps helped it along its way in the final weeks or days. As for the fingerprints, which I still regard as 'real', I still think that that doesn't put Wallace in the TSBD. He could have been, but I doubt it. I think the placement of his fingerprints on the box, or the box with his fingerprints in the TSBD, shows the 'attention to detail' of the plotters. They had every angle covered and trusted NO ONE, unless they were totally compromised. That is why there were SO VERY MANY operatives in the Plaza. Yes, some were operational - but most were not and served to shut them and those connected to them to shut the **** up about whatever they suspected - as well as to leave another false trail, as needed. I think Darby was likely correct about who's fingerprints they were - as to the ultimate meaning of the fingerprints, I don't think we have a firm conclusion yet [whether Wallace was in the TSBD or had just one touched a box that was, or had had his fingerprints put on them - and if LBJ had been involved in that or someone had made him involved; I lean toward the latter two.]

Tosh once told me that it was common informed speculation in Dallas in certain circles he was involved with that Wallace was likely involved [or set up to be implicated] in a murder for hire in the Sportatorium some time before and apparently having nothing to do with the Assassination. It is interesting to note that in Tosh's scenario in Dallas, he and Sergio go from the Plaza to the Sportatorium to change clothes and clean up - then to the safehouse in Oak Cliff. [i.e. the Sportatorium was also a safehouse for both the Dallas Mafia and the Intelligence Community - including that connected to CIA and maybe MI]. I tried to research aspects of this. I did find the newspaper report of an unsolved murder during a wresting or boxing [forget now] match. I can also confirm that the Sportatorium was used as a safehouse. The rest of this is based on Tosh's telling of it. It may not be germane here; and it may be. This is one more item that I'm sure Tosh told Harrison, and that Harrison likely investigated.

[R.K. Locke]

I have also lost track of the argument here.

To be clear, I think the idea of LBJ as a sponsor is absurd, and that Mac Wallace was not on the 6th floor of the TSBD. There would be absolutely no need for him to be there, and no need to further implicate LBJ by the presence of a single fingerprint. If anyone can present a compelling argument to the contrary then I'm all ears.

[Peter Lemkin]

I have also lost track of the argument here.

To be clear, I think the idea of LBJ as a sponsor is absurd, and that Mac Wallace was not on the 6th floor of the TSBD. There would be absolutely no need for him to be there, and no need to further implicate LBJ by the presence of a single fingerprint. If anyone can present a compelling argument to the contrary then I'm all ears.

This is still a rather sensitive subject - as some parts I know about I'm pledged not to disclose yet...and there are others who know much more than I do about this who have information they didn't want to disclose to me yet. That said, a few persons are well informed that two fully qualified fingerprint experts were both given two sets of prints BLIND - not knowing who's they were and why anyone wanted them matched - the gold standard. Both found that the fingerprints matched and it is told to me from reliable sources that one print was from a box in the TSBD and the other print was that of Wallace from one time he had been arrested. Make of that what you will. I have already said what I feel about it. Jay Harrison was central in this endeavor...and his archive would include, or once included, the details of this. Joan Mellen claims to have evidence impeaching the print expert. I have information otherwise. I have information I can't go into that Mellen may [I stress MAY] have been 'sold a bill of goods' and led astray. Joan is a friend and a researcher I respect highly. I happen to strongly question her conclusions on this, given what I know at this time [and have known for some time] - which goes a bit beyond what has been posted here, and which, again, I'm not at liberty to disclose beyond what has been. I would hope that it would be possible to have those who know more to post more about all this at some time; however, given some of the 'sensitivities' it may be a while. I think, however, that with what is already posted one can make ample initial conclusions...if not fully informed ones. No doubt, this will be another [of many] contentious bits of 'evidence' in the JFK assassination magic show.

As to your specific point of 'no need to...' I might agree...but we didn't plan this event did we, so we must work with what was planned, and what was faked to look like it was, and all the combinations and permutations of those...ad infinitum it sometimes seems.