PLane carrying German passenger crashes in France

[Michael Barwell]

c.30,000ft by 8mins = 3,750ft/min rate of descent, which I'd guess is fairly consistent with gliding, a bit steep perhaps, but an average. Usually I can get some sort of a handle on these things, but this one's odd, esp. as no Mayday crew call over 8mins. No suggestion of structural failure, so it's presumably either a power or control issue.

[R.K. Locke]

Allianz is the lead underwriter for the aircraft:


http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/2...FY20150324

UPDATE 2-Allianz says it is lead underwriter for crashed Germanwings Airbus plane


Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:44pm EDT


(Reuters) - German insurer Allianz confirmed it was the lead insurance underwriter for the Airbus A320 plane which crashed in the French Alps on Tuesday.

All 150 people on board the plane, operated by Lufthansa's Germanwings budget airline, were feared dead.

"We are ready to support our client as fully and quickly as possible, working in conjunction with our co-insurers," Allianz said in a statement.

Planes are normally insured by a consortium of underwriters who share the risk.

AIG AIG.N was another of the underwriters, insurance industry sources said.

JLT and Willis were joint brokers for the insurance placement, two separate industry sources added. The plane had an insured loss of $6-$7 million, they said. (Reporting by Carolyn Cohn, Jonathan Gould and Richa Naidu, editing by Sinead Cruise and Simon Jessop)



The Guardian now has this:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/ma...ght-4u9525



Sounds like another remote hijacking scenario to me.

[Albert Doyle]

The Voice Recorder showed one of the pilots was locked out of the cockpit:



http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/world/...crash.html

[Peter Lemkin]

The now likely scenario of a pilot locked out and unable to break back in could be a very clever and insidious move by someone. That means that the hijacker-proof doors will not have to be made to open somehow from the outside. Unclear yet is whether the other pilot in the cockpit had lost consciousness or was intent on being a Kamikaze. Either way plane travel is certainly a LOT less safe then just a few years ago. Lufthansa is one of the most respected airlines and if this is foul play it targets all major [and minor] airlines - that they can't control their own planes nor guarantee the safety of any flight. It could also be a 'message' to the Germans - or Europeans, more generally. It is still much too early to be certain what exactly happened, but the lack of a distress signal and the rather smooth decent directly into a mountain does not bode well for the final outcome of the investigation. Obviously, if in fact one pilot was locked out and unable to force his entry back in, that is very ominous indeed - as anything from remote take over, through a heart attack, to a Kamikaze pilot can not be corrected by the other pilot when he/she goes to the toilet. This will change the way planes are flown, whatever the outcome of the investigation and likely much before the end of the investigation. I'm just speculating, but why not Lufthansa plane proper? Perhaps only chance; perhaps because many of the larger Lufthansa planes have a crew of three - with two always in the cockpit. The co-pilot who it seems was in the cockpit at the end was recently hired and had flown few hours compared to the pilot - although that alone isn't suspicious. Also note: the reports from AFP [the main French news agency and semi-official] and NYT on the pilot being locked are were NOT official reports from the investigators, but supposedly leaked from someone in the investigation...so caveat emptor. [That said, it has now been ALL OVER the internet and media - and no official spokesperson from airlines, nations or other responsible bodies have tried to downplay nor deny this - so I am assuming it is their best interpretation of the data they have so far, despite the 'unofficial leak']

Edit: from this, below, from a pilot of similar aircraft, it seems that only foul play is likely - as a dead or unconscious co-pilot has a work-around re: the cabin door already. [i.e. in all likelihood, if this information is confirmed, the deadbolt was in place and nothing the pilot outside could do could have changed the outcome. If the deadbolt can be activated remotely, I do NOT know - and airlines would NOT say. IMO

1) The cockpit door keycode is used to call the flight deck to open the door. At that point a pilot would verify the person trying to access the cockpit and only then switch a switch to "release" the magnetic locks securing the door closed.

2) If the "in cockpit" pilot is unconscious while the other is out of the cockpit, a different code can be entered from the outside with a timer delay which would auto open the door if not permanently locked (using the deadbolt) by the pilot inside the cockpit. (This timer delay is there to allow a number of seconds to pass with the buzzer sounding in the cockpit for the "incapacitated" pilot to open the door using the console switch. Should the incapacitated pilot not open the door then the normal (magnetized) door locks would automatically open after the timer has expired.

3) Should any of the codes be used to try to gain access to the cockpit then, a lock door (spring loaded) switch can be held in the cockpit by a pilot until the "deadbolt" is put on to prevent the entry into the cockpit. To put the deadbolt on and prevent permanent access to the cockpit, a pilot has to get out of his seat normally and "slide/move" the deadbolt across the door preventing any access if the door was tried to be opened.

4) If the deadbolt was pushed across the door from the inside of the cockpit then, no matter what normal actions someone takes from outside the door, you will not be able to gain access.

My additional note: For security reasons, as far as we have been told, no 'battering ram' is available in the cabin in such a case - as it could be found and used by a hijacker. The pilot outside had little time and likely couldn't see the approaching mountain; probably the ONLY thing he could have tried was to get several strong/heavy men to join him in trying to heave-ho against the door. Even that could have failed and likely would have taken more time to arrange than they had.......I begin to see this a yet another plane brought down by terror - whether personal, group or state-sponsored; real-flag/false-flag/no-flag there are as yet no clues. Lufthansa stocks have fallen, as have those of Airbus. Flight insurers are getting nervous. Expect flying to be a lot more expensive and dangerous in the future. The raft of missing, lost, crashed planes in the last few months is alarming...I do NOT expect it to decline; instead to increase.

Last year and a half [only flights with over 50 deaths]:
[TABLE="class: wikitable sortable jquery-tablesorter"]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]50[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]6[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]44[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]0[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]†[/TH]
[TD]COM[/TD]
[TD]Tatarstan Airlines Flight 363[/TD]
[TD]Boeing 737-53A[/TD]
[TD]Kazan, Russia[/TD]
[TD]LDG
[SUP][603][/SUP][/TD]
[TD]KZN[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]17 Nov 2013[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]77[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]4[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]72[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]0[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]1*[/TH]
[TD]MIL[/TD]
[TD]Algerian Air Force C-130[/TD]
[TD]Lockheed C-130 Hercules[/TD]
[TD]Aïn Kercha, Oum El Bouaghi Province, Algeria[/TD]
[TD]ENR
[SUP][370][/SUP][/TD]
[TD]CZL[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]11 Feb 2014[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]239[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]12[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]227[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]0[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]†[/TH]
[TD]COM[/TD]
[TD]Malaysia Airlines Flight 370[/TD]
[TD]Boeing 777-2H6ER[/TD]
[TD]Unknown, possiblyIndian Ocean[/TD]
[TD]ENR
[SUP][43][/SUP][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]8 Mar 2014[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]298[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]15[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]283[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]0[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]†[/TH]
[TD]EXG[/TD]
[TD]Malaysia Airlines Flight 17[/TD]
[TD]Boeing 777-2H6ER[/TD]
[TD]near Hrabove, Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine[/TD]
[TD]ENR
[SUP][27][/SUP][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]17 Jul 2014[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]116[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]6[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]110[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]0[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]†[/TH]
[TD]COM[/TD]
[TD]Air Algérie Flight 5017[/TD]
[TD]McDonnell Douglas MD-83[/TD]
[TD]near Gossi, Mali[/TD]
[TD]ENR
[SUP][186][/SUP][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]24 Jul 2014[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]162[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]7[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]155[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]0[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]†[/TH]
[TD]COM[/TD]
[TD]Indonesia AirAsia Flight 8501[/TD]
[TD]Airbus A320-216[/TD]
[TD]Karimata Strait, between Belitungand Borneo, Java Sea, Indonesia[/TD]
[TD]ENR
[SUP][88][/SUP][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]28 Dec 2014[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]150[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]6[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]144[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]0[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]†[/TH]
[TD]COM[/TD]
[TD]Germanwings Flight 9525[/TD]
[TD]Airbus A320-211[/TD]
[TD]near French Alps,France[/TD]
[TD]ENR
[SUP][111][/SUP][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]24 Mar 2015[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[David Guyatt]

It's a highly suspicious development in my opinion.

[Peter Lemkin]

The now likely scenario of a pilot locked out and unable to break back in could be a very clever and insidious move by someone. That means that the hijacker-proof doors will not have to be made to open somehow from the outside. Unclear yet is whether the other pilot in the cockpit had lost consciousness or was intent on being a Kamikaze. Either way plane travel is certainly a LOT less safe then just a few years ago. Lufthansa is one of the most respected airlines and if this is foul play it targets all major [and minor] airlines - that they can't control their own planes nor guarantee the safety of any flight. It could also be a 'message' to the Germans - or Europeans, more generally. It is still much too early to be certain what exactly happened, but the lack of a distress signal and the rather smooth decent directly into a mountain does not bode well for the final outcome of the investigation. Obviously, if in fact one pilot was locked out and unable to force his entry back in, that is very ominous indeed - as anything from remote take over, through a heart attack, to a Kamikaze pilot can not be corrected by the other pilot when he/she goes to the toilet. This will change the way planes are flown, whatever the outcome of the investigation and likely much before the end of the investigation. I'm just speculating, but why not Lufthansa plane proper? Perhaps only chance; perhaps because many of the larger Lufthansa planes have a crew of three - with two always in the cockpit. The co-pilot who it seems was in the cockpit at the end was recently hired and had flown few hours compared to the pilot - although that alone isn't suspicious. Also note: the reports from AFP [the main French news agency and semi-official] and NYT on the pilot being locked are were NOT official reports from the investigators, but supposedly leaked from someone in the investigation...so caveat emptor. [That said, it has now been ALL OVER the internet and media - and no official spokesperson from airlines, nations or other responsible bodies have tried to downplay nor deny this - so I am assuming it is their best interpretation of the data they have so far, despite the 'unofficial leak']

Edit: from this, below, from a pilot of similar aircraft, it seems that only foul play is likely - as a dead or unconscious co-pilot has a work-around re: the cabin door already. [i.e. in all likelihood, if this information is confirmed, the deadbolt was in place and nothing the pilot outside could do could have changed the outcome. If the deadbolt can be activated remotely, I do NOT know - and airlines would NOT say. IMO

1) The cockpit door keycode is used to call the flight deck to open the door. At that point a pilot would verify the person trying to access the cockpit and only then switch a switch to "release" the magnetic locks securing the door closed.

2) If the "in cockpit" pilot is unconscious while the other is out of the cockpit, a different code can be entered from the outside with a timer delay which would auto open the door if not permanently locked (using the deadbolt) by the pilot inside the cockpit. (This timer delay is there to allow a number of seconds to pass with the buzzer sounding in the cockpit for the "incapacitated" pilot to open the door using the console switch. Should the incapacitated pilot not open the door then the normal (magnetized) door locks would automatically open after the timer has expired.

3) Should any of the codes be used to try to gain access to the cockpit then, a lock door (spring loaded) switch can be held in the cockpit by a pilot until the "deadbolt" is put on to prevent the entry into the cockpit. To put the deadbolt on and prevent permanent access to the cockpit, a pilot has to get out of his seat normally and "slide/move" the deadbolt across the door preventing any access if the door was tried to be opened.

4) If the deadbolt was pushed across the door from the inside of the cockpit then, no matter what normal actions someone takes from outside the door, you will not be able to gain access.

My additional note: For security reasons, as far as we have been told, no 'battering ram' is available in the cabin in such a case - as it could be found and used by a hijacker. The pilot outside had little time and likely couldn't see the approaching mountain; probably the ONLY thing he could have tried was to get several strong/heavy men to join him in trying to heave-ho against the door. Even that could have failed and likely would have taken more time to arrange than they had.......I begin to see this a yet another plane brought down by terror - whether personal, group or state-sponsored; real-flag/false-flag/no-flag there are as yet no clues. Lufthansa stocks have fallen, as have those of Airbus. Flight insurers are getting nervous. Expect flying to be a lot more expensive and dangerous in the future. The raft of missing, lost, crashed planes in the last few months is alarming...I do NOT expect it to decline; instead to increase.

This has now been confirmed, officially - with some additional details:
- It was the pilot locked outside the cockpit; the newly hired/low flight hours co-pilot inside.
- Co-pilot was breathing normally, but not talking during the planes heading into the mountain. Normal breathing rules out being unconscious.
- Also ruling out his being unconscious was the way in which he [co-pilot] operated the craft. The automatic systems would have overridden what he did had he been unconscious or dead.

- It all looks like the co-pilot committed suicide for himself and homicide for 149 others. There is very slight room for other scenarios/variants, but not too many.

[Albert Doyle]

The co-pilot had a break in his training before finishing it later (Time for possible MKULTRA hypnosis).

[Lauren Johnson]

Wayne Madsen reports the flight data recorder was indeed found but with its memory card missing.

And this:

One of the three Americans killed in the crash was Yvonne Selke, a 23-year veteran employee of the intelligence firm Booz Allen Hamilton, who was contracted to the National Geo-spatial Intelligence Agency (NGA) located near Dulles International Airport in northern Virginia. Selke lived in Nokesville, Virginia. NGA's analyzes imagery intelligence from the global network of America's spy satellites. NGA's current top priority in satellite imagery of Iran in the final days of sensitive negotiations on Iran's nuclear program between Iran and the P5+1 nations of the United States, Britain, France, Russia, China, and Germany. Israel has been spying on these negotiations and sharing the intelligence with Republicans in the U.S. Congress opposed to any nuclear deal with Iran. Selke's daughter Emily, a Drexel University graduate, also died in the crash. State Department's spokesperson Jen Psaki refrained from identifying the third American.

[Peter Lemkin]

The only new gossip worth [?] reporting is a woman who knew him said he had dropped out of flying some time ago due to depression, and then started flying again. Depression doesn't equal suicide and less so homicide. I think it may be very hard to ever know 'intent' [or state of mind] if the scenario being portrayed now holds up. It is sickening to see on many internet forums people asking if he was Muslim.....in fact he was not...but even had he been that is racism and drinking the Kool-Aide of War of Terror Propaganda!

[Peter Lemkin]

New interesting tidbit. One of the three American dead on the flight: Yvonne Selke - she worked for Pentagon contractors Booz Allen Hamilton doing work for the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency. Could be nothing....could be more than that. The Europeans have asked the FBI to join the investigation. Speculation is because of Selke.