Did Captain Westbrook Watch Tippit's Murder?

[Albert Doyle]

If you can point us to strong evidence that the casings from 10th & Patton were somehow switched, I'll pass this on to John right away. The new material up on the website needs this kind of scrutiny. Thanks for your interest.

Sounds like it could be a combination of the two.


Poe said he initialed the casings and the initials were not on the casings in evidence.

[Jim Hargrove]

Hey, Albert.

Yeah, I don't remember all the specifics, but the cops had some difficulty--or simply couldn't--identify casings allegedly marked at the scene by Poe and the other guy... (I had to look it up)... Barnes. But if you look at the tiny spot where the marks are supposed to be made, on a spent shell, you can see how hard it is to both mark and then identify that mark. Dale Meyers published photos of the casings now at the National Archives, and there are definitely some sort of chicken scratches on them, though I don't recall thinking they proved much of anything at all.

The cartridge casings on the scene were of mixed brands: Winchester-Western and Remington-Peters. These same two brands of cartridges were allegedly found in the revolver Classic Oswald had at the Texas Theater.

It's hard to put any kind of chicanery out of the possible in this case, but I don't think it has been proven that the Tippit murder scene shells were switched.

I remember John A spent weeks studying this issue a year or two ago. He read Dale Meyers book and kept remarking how well done it was, despite the WC friendly conclusions. I'm pretty sure John is aware of the controversy you brought up, and is not convinced by it.

OTOH, he asked me to thank you again for your help mapping out those addresses the other day. That was VERY helpful.

If you have anything else, please let me know.

[Drew Phipps]

Unfortunately the eyewitness gun description as an automatic doesn't match the available evidence.

If you want speculating, the fact that the "second police car" would have had a line of sight to Tippet could account for two different brands of ammunition recovered from Tippet.. and might also explain why only 2 casings were found where Oswald shook out his spent ones. (2 other casings were found at a different location by a different witness, leading people to speculate that an automatic fired 2 rounds and ejected them at the scene...)

4 bullets in Tippet plus 5 bullets in his pocket plus 6 bullets loaded in the gun is 15 in total, not a multiple of 6. (Not that he had to carry bullets in multiples of 6, but for a 6 shooter that would only be sensible.) If Oswald fired his revolver twice, and some other person also fired twice, then dropped the spent casings near the body...

[Jim Hargrove]

Correct me if you can, but not one single witness has ever claimed to see two different people firing at Tippit. The same two brands of bullets, casings of which were found at 10th and Patton in various ways, were retrieved from the guy arrested at the Texas Theater.

The ballistics evidence connecting the arrest revolver to Tippit's death may not be perfect, but it isn't terrible either, is it? What is terrible is the so-called evidence showing anyone named "Oswald" or "Hidell" purchased the damn thing in the first place. John's short write-up on the Seaport Trader's b.s. is here: harveyandlee.net/Guns/Pistol.html. If anything, that evidence is even worse than the Kleins rifle b.s.

If this is the best the mighty WC could do to show our boy bought that revolver, it does beg for SPECULATION about just how he came to have it, no? Strikes me as a pretty good guess that the Oswald in the white shirt who John believes shot Tippit was tasked to somehow get the evidence into the hands of the Oswald in the brown shirt already sitting in the theater trying to locate a contact. If so, the hand-off must have included a damned good story, under the circumstances. (John wrote, "But why would HARVEY accept the weapon? Orders. Perhaps he was told that it was his job to get rid of the weapon; perhaps he was told to give it to another person.)

If John is right, both Oswalds had been agents for many years, and both were well accustomed to following orders.

[Bart Kamp]

Sorry but this is pure speculation.

Yes, it is, and is labeled so on the website:

SPECULATION: If Mrs. Holan was correct, and saw a second police car at the Tippit murder scene, it is very possible that Croy was the driver and Westbrook was the man who confirmed that Tippit was dead. The police car, after backing up to the alley, could have driven a half block south to Jefferson Blvd., and then turned right toward the Texas Theater (5 blocks west). If they met and/or picked up LEE near the Texaco station and drove him to the Texas Theater, this could explain how Capt. Westbrook acquired two very important items from LEE Oswald--his light-colored jacket (supposedly found under a car at the Texaco Station, and handled only by Westbrook) and the 2nd Oswald wallet, which Westbrook produced at the murder scene. LEE Oswald purchased a ticket, entered the theater, went directly to the balcony, and soon passed the murder weapon to his contact. Croy was dropped off at the Tippit murder scene while Westbrook drove the police car back to Dealy Plaza.

I did not mean that passage (which includes 2 ifs, and 2 coulds), but the passage I quoted
''John believes that the Tippit murder weapon was being transferred from Lee Oswald to Harvey Oswald via the "contact" Harvey was obviously seeking all the time he was at the theater. It may have been the pregnant lady Butch Burroughs saw Harvey Oswald sit next to. A minute or two after Harvey sat next to the pregnant lady, she walked out the theater, probably walking by the shoe store and giving the signal to Tommy Rowe and/or Johnny Brewer (most likely Rowe) that Harvey was now ready to be arrested. BRING ON THE 26 COPS, THE TRAP IS FULLY SET!''

[Drew Phipps]

It's true there isn't a single witness that claimed to see a second gunman at the site of the Tippet shooting. However, it would explain why the recovered shell casings were found in different places, with the witnesses who did see Oswald were sure he shook out his empties in the bushes (a location from which 2 of 4 shell casings were recovered). There was a witness who said 2 guys walked away from the Tippet site in opposite directions.

It is furthermore of interest that Jack Ruby's .38, that he used to kill Oswald, is stamped with the ".38 Special" stamp, which means, co-incidentally I suppose, that Oswald was shot with the same kind of weapon that Tippet was shot with.

It's also true that not a single witness puts Westbrook anywhere near the Tippet scene at the time Tippet was shot, so this entire thread is a matter of rank speculation. Since it seems to be a relevant yardstick, I'd also like to point out that not a single witness says there was actually two Oswalds.

Correct me if you can.

[Albert Doyle]

FYI: Mixing bullet types would make the ID appear to be unique to the gun.



Automatic bullets have "AUTO" stamped on their base.



In the end the Texas Theater doubles witnessing trumps the Tippit shooting and confirms the conspiracy. As Douglass showed the Texas Theater doubles were highly documented.

[Jim Hargrove]

.... Since it seems to be a relevant yardstick, I'd also like to point out that not a single witness says there was actually two Oswalds.

Correct me if you can.

I can indeed correct this misconception!

Laura Kittrell, an employee of the Texas Employment Commission, was one witness who clearly met both Oswalds, and she was so perplexed by her experience that she gave a thirty-page statement to the U.S. Attorney in Dallas! Her statement was hand carried to the Warren Commission by the Secret Service. But her 30-page statement and her subsequent 90-page handwritten manuscript, in which she discusses her interviews of the two Oswalds, were ultimately ignored and suppressed. The FBI finally got around to interviewing her on June 4, 1965, nearly a year after publication of the Warren Report. Here's a portion of the FBI report (read the second paragraph):




Nearly 200 pages of U.S. Government documents about Ms. Kittrell as well as reproductions of her statements listed above have been collected in the John Armstrong Collection at Baylor University, and can be viewed in their entirety at this link:

http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm...8939/rec/7

Best way to view all this material is to click the "download" button near the top right of the screen, which will conveniently download all 103 megabytes of this 183 page document collection to your computer.

It is quite obvious that Laura Kittrell's observations created an enormous amount of interest in government circles. It is equally obvious that her information was suppressed for decades, and continues to be largely hidden to this day, despite the best efforts of John Armstrong and me.

Many other people clearly met the two Oswalds. Most of them met untimely deaths.

[Albert Doyle]

That's the first I've ever heard of Laura Kittral. Well, there you have it. Parker repellent.

[Lauren Johnson]

That's the first I've ever heard of Laura Kittral. Well, there you have it. Parker repellent.

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