Heads Up!

[Albert Doyle]

I'm only going to do this once Albert.

Your photographic understanding and analysis is severely flawed. You're using your eyes to judge distance and size in a 2d representation of 3d space.

You are plain and simply - wrong about your conclusions which are based on a severely faulty process... eyeballing.

Not true. I have made arguments that rely on some very firm reasoning like the sun plane illuminating Prayer Man's hand in a spot that could only be located at the front of the portal. You are failing to answer it with your overly-general response. I think your response is deliberately overly-general because you are trying to avoid answering my evidence.

What you wrote is provably wrong and I am using firm forensic landmarks like the sun plane that can only be in one place and is exactly the opposite of what you claim as being "eyeballing". The sun plane is literally set in stone by the portal west wall edge and 12:30pm sun angle. Science says it can only be in one place.

Sorry David but you are condescending to me while offering an argument that avoids answering what was said. Your 2 dimension image in a 3d space is pure sophistry that does not answer the simple argument I made. My forensic landmarks do answer the 3d requirements and were articulated in such a way as to do so.

Maybe you think there's "no excuse for not making a direct height comparison" but you remain the only one not understanding the concepts of light, lens, focal distance and angles.

This doesn't answer what I wrote. I have provided adequate evidence that Prayer Man is at the front of the landing. Parker, Kamp, Unger and others agree Prayer Man is forward in the landing so it is actually you who is in the minority. In fact the main ROKC proponents of this even say Prayer Man is on the first step down (which is even more forward). The sun glow caused by Prayer Man sticking his hand into the sun plane is the best evidence of this. What this reasonably proves is that, contrary to what you write, Prayer Man is well within the same arc curve of distance from Darnell's lens. I will not back off of this because it is provably correct and you have failed to answer for it while speaking down to me. You've already tried to get away with a false comparison while lecturing me on high tech photo analysis, which is totally irrelevant to what we are talking about and doesn't answer the points.

"Light, lens, focal distance, and angles" is so irrelevant to what I wrote and so overly-general that it is indirect confirmation of my argument. Meanwhile if you bothered to read the MacRae website thread it is actually myself who has offered the best arguments on triangulation etc. Including here.

I posted the Ferrie/Oswald camp image to show that items at the front of an image cannot be compared to images anywhere else on the image without understanding photogammetry.

This doesn't answer the true perspective in Darnell that Drew seems to understand. You don't seem to realize that Prayer Man is well within the distance from Darnell's lens that would make him comparable to Frazier. Credible analysis could do the math that shows the perspective ratios involved at the distance from Darnell's camera when considering the depth difference between Frazier and Prayer Man. Since Prayer Man is no more than 12 inches or so further back than Frazier in this arc curve, at Darnell's distance there is no appreciable perspective shift between Frazier and Prayer Man when applying this valid applicable science. I have already pointed out that when you consider the 6-7 inch height difference seen in Darnell that this miniscule perspective shift is not enough to invalidate this difference. It is me who is being patient here not you. You are just referencing overly-general photogrammetry citations without describing how it applies.

1) the same arc? where do you get this gobbledee-goop?

From the evidence you are ignoring. I have adequately described forensic landmarks like the brickwork and aluminum frame in Wiegman that Unger stated showed Prayer Man was forward in the landing. I have cited Unger's and MacRae's film clips that undoubtedly show Prayer Man forward in the landing (Seen at MacRae's forum). Prayer Man's hand illuminating in the sun plane is also another firm forensic landmark. Simple analysis of the portal shows that once you correctly place Prayer Man forward in the landing that a scientific arc curve measured from Darnell's lens places Prayer Man and Frazier at a similar enough distance to exclude any invalid perspective shift excuses.

Do you understand that higher focal lengths cause more distortion in the image? The greater the distance as well...

Rubbish. You're not answering my specific arguments that make this moot. There are no relevant focal length distortions that affect what I said and my arguments are sound. You're making excuses David - and poor ones at that.

When you move Wesley over without a shift in depth you can easily see that he cannot be compared to PM - the depth is wrong and he is distorted when moved next to someone farther away.

2) Since you cannot compare distances and lengths within a photo using 2d analysis you need to understand why you remain so incredibly wrong about the images you are analyzing and coming to conclusions which are completely worthless.

What are you talking about David??? Frazier is in a fixed position in Murphy's Darnell image. We are talking where they are in Darnell at the more than adequate resolution they are at.

I've already answered this. Prayer Man is no more than 12 inches further back according to all known evidence. According to science 12 inches at that distance is not enough perspective shift to preclude any direct comparisons between Prayer Man and Frazier. Especially with the large 6-7 inch height difference that is plainly visible in Darnell. You're simply not living up to the evidence here David.

you then write: "Use the aluminum frames behind both subjects as gauges"

Which is yet an even more egregious error in measurement within a photo and yet another version of the topic you butcher terribly.

Why? Because you say it? With Prayer Man and Frazier being separated by 12 inches in depth max I'm afraid the aluminum frames are valid gauges and you haven't shown otherwise besides self-pronouncements. There's an inarguable 6-7 inch height difference between Frazier and Prayer Man that you are obviously taking pains to avoid admitting.

Albert - we're all terribly sorry that reality and physics, light and 2d representation of 3d space confuses you so that you need to refute facts with tautology and non-sequitur.

If you want to continue to spout nonsense about your measuring skills and techniques - enjoy yourself... if others wish to debate with you about this have at it.

You might as well be pointing out that we will fall off the world when we reach the horizon because ships you visually watch disappear once they cross over.
Astute observation yet similarly incorrect once you have the facts

I think smart and honest people will detect the difference in our offerings. Drew and Trotter did, so I'm not sure what exact group you are referring to instead of directly answering the arguments. Ignoring people is no intellectual boasting point. Responding well to valid evidence is. I think people will notice that I reference very specifically-detailed evidence and arguments directly related to specific things in the portal. You, on the other hand, offer regressive brow-beating-type generalities pointing towards some kind of haughty photo science without ever detailing how that applies to my points? Don't play dumb David, all the credible evidence points toward Prayer Man being at the front of the landing (Not to mention two film clips that show it directly). This deserves a serious direct answer. I see you never gave that. Even ROKC says Prayer Man was so far forward that he was on the first step down (Proven incorrect by my Fratini evidence you ignored while chiding my ability). Simple common sense tells you that once you confirm Prayer Man was forward on the landing that he was therefore in the same distance plane from Darnell's lens as Frazier. This means a direct height comparison applies and the obvious 6-7 inch difference between Prayer Man and Frazier cannot be ignored.

I'm sorry David but this is the bottom line and you have failed to credibly answer it. It proves Prayer Man cannot be Oswald.


David Josephs: "Who are you going to believe, ***** or your own lying eyes?"

"You are plain and simply - wrong about your conclusions which are based on a severely faulty process... eyeballing."