Clay Shaw

[Tom Scully]

(I originally posted nearly everything that follows on February 10, 2016:
https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/sho...post107118 I am revisiting this in reaction to Jim's very recent reaction to a claim by the biggest troll I have ever confronted. I hope Jim begins to admit there are facts that do not fit the Oliver Stone influenced consensus.... )

More fact checking needs to be done. Nothing should be taken at face value. When I read a book, I want to be left with an impression of what was actually going on. The elephants in the room.:

Jim,
.......
Back to the thread topic, Clay Shaw....

Donald H Carpenter supported all of this in his book, without comment, but I came by it the hard way, independently and starting from scratch.
I think it changes things.....

The back story in its simplest form is that David Baldwin's wife, Mildred Lyons emerges as the stepdaughter of Monte Lemann, the stepsister of Stephen B. Lemann and his brother Thomas, (who is the father of Nicholas B. Lemann), the sister-in-law of Edward M. Baldwin, and the daughter-in-law of Adele Ziegler Baldwin Raworth, who was the sister of Harold J. Ziegler, father-in-law of Jim Garrison. David Gilmore Baldwin, III and his brother, attorney Edward M. Baldwin, were first cousins of Jim Garrison's wife, Leah Elizabeth Ziegler Garrison.
......….

(Oliver Stone spent $41 million, I spent two weeks.....)

Garrison investigation witness Perry Russo filed a lawsuit claiming defamation, against Conde Nast GQ. Nicholas B. Lemann, attributed in the court record,

UNDISPUTED FACTUAL BACKGROUND: …The GQ article was a personal memoir[1] of Lemann's recollections of growing up in New Orleans during District Attorney Jim Garrison's prosecution of Clay Shaw for allegedly conspiring to assassinate JFK. The 1991 movie release, JFK sparked renewed interest in the assassination as well as the prosecution itself of Clay Shaw. The film was purportedly based on Garrison's book, On the Trail of Assassins, and sympathetically portrayed Garrison.

The GQ article published by Lemann took a different slant, expressing his view that Shaw's prosecution was built on flimsy evidence and was a tremendous embarrassment to the city.[2] ….

From Donald H Carpenter's 2013 book, March 2, 1967 letter, David Baldwin to Clay Shaw.:

Garrison happens to be married to my godchild and first cousin....
(Link to supporting footnote)

….Garrison included in his six page complaint letter to the FCC chairman, published in
the June 18 Times-Picayune;

http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docI...6&tab=page
2of2 Garrison 06/67 letter to FCC comm. Rosel H. Hyde
(Top of right side column)
…It should be added that the last described endeavor has been accomplished not by members of the station (WDSU) itself, but by an attorney closely connected with the station who has previously been known to disperse funds in the New Orleans area in behalf of the Central Intelligence Agency….

1. FBI 62-109060 JFK HQ File, Section 140, pg 9
Found in: FBI JFK Assassination File (62-109060)
be will not fight extradition. Sheridan's attorney in New Orleans, Steven Lemann, who is also attorney for WDSU, the NBC affiliate here, was present in the


5. ADMIN FOLDER-O9: HSCA ADMINISTRATIVE FOLDER, LHO INCOMING COMMUNICATIONS VOLUME VI, pg 75
Found in: FBI - HSCA Administrative Folders
WITNESSES STATUTE. WARRANT WAS ISSUED FOR TOWNLEY AND HIS ATTORNEY STEPHEN LEMANN, SAID HE AND TOWNLEY WOULD APPEAR TO POST SEVEN THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS

Edward M. Baldwin's former law partner, Judge Malcolm V. O'Hara testified to Orlean's Parish grand jury,

http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docI...elPageId=7

…He (Edward M. Baldwin) enumerated or spelled out his personal dislike for Jim Garrison, that he personally thought he should be destroyed, that Sheridan's so-called
mission in the City of New Orleans with this so-called documentary was to end the problem, destroy Garrison or to get him to resign….

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Unreda...cript.html
Unredacted Episode 1: Transcript of Interview with Joan Mellen

Joan Mellen is the author of A Farewell to Justice: Jim Garrison, JFK's Assassination, and the Case That Should Have Changed History. This interview was conducted on 22 Feb 2006.
.......
Rex: Joan..... One, there's a story in the Grand Jury testimony told by three different parties involving Sheridan when he came out to do his NBC White Paper, having a meeting set up with an organized crime figure named Zachary Strate that was apparently set up by either Malcolm O'Hara, a judge who was a political enemy of Garrison's, and a lawyer named Edward Baldwin. I wonder if you might tell that story about what that meeting was all about?...

......

JOAN: - when Baldwin was present, he was a CIA asset, his brother worked for the International Trade Mart and Clay Shaw, David Baldwin, and these, these are CIA people. Malcolm O'Hara is sitting there - he doesn't know what hit him - and eventually Strate did not cooperate, and he went up there, and he attacked Sheridan - of course, Sheridan had immunity - nothing anyone could say about Sheridan whether in court, affidavits signed against Sheridan, Sheridan had immunity as a National Security Agency asset, cleared for FBI work, cleared for CIA work, working for the Department of Justice -......

The troll opined....:



Jim replied:

Stephen Roy says:February 12, 2016 at 9:42 pm
I hadn't yet responded to your post asking if I had read Carpenter. What difference does it make? Unless I'm misreading you, you feel that the interrelationships of several of the persons from the Garrison-Shaw probe should have been disclosed, and that the lack of disclosure suggests that the whole thing was a contrivance. All I am saying is that I disagree with this analysis.
Tom S. says:
February 13, 2016 at 12:26 am
Stephen, these are your comments:

1.) I can't really follow your reasoning on this. It strikes me as a very unlikely scenario.
2.) Tom, are you suggesting that since some of the players in the Garrison/Shaw saga traveled in the same social or family circles, that the whole investigation was a phony? Are you serious??
3.) I'm not choosing anything; I'm merely opining that, by any objective measure, the facts you cite do not inexorably lead to the analysis you postulated. I've been immersed in the New Orleans case for a long time and I'm qualified to have an an opinion on this.
That having been said, discussion and debate are good things.

Come to find out, you wrote a review of Donald H. Carpenter's book. It appeared and still is on Max Holland's website. You say, "I am qualified to have an opinion
on this."
You stated this in your book review.: http://www.washingtondecoded.com/site/2015/03/shaw.html

…It is not just another derivative book on the market, cobbled together from other works that were not fact-checked. Rather, it is a rare example of original research from primary sources, making it invaluable for anyone interested in the Garrison debacle….

But in your review, you neglected to mention perhaps the two most important pieces of, unique, new information in the entire book.:


It follows that your assertion that you are qualified to have an opinion, must be weighed alongside your glaring omissions, and speaking for myself, I cannot discern
if you've come here to attempt damage control related to your own reputation, or if you are one of the people primarily interested in determining what the hell actually happened in the Garrison investigation and the arrest and prosecution of Clay Shaw.


Stephen Roy says:
February 13, 2016 at 12:44 pm
There were many irrelevant things I saw no need to include in my brief edited review of a 700 page book. Stop suggesting that I have an agenda.....