06-12-2019, 05:14 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2019, 07:21 PM by James Lateer.)
Thanks to you, Lauren for shining the light on my (admittedly) arm-chair knowledge of Latin America. Your travels there sound very significant regarding these issues. Myself, I have only been one week in Cancun, and a day trip each to Nogales and Tijuana.
Never having been to those Latin American places, I admit I may be thinking in stereotypes. Further, my personal childhood experience with Protestant/Catholic hostility also colors my perceptions.
I have at least twice been surprised by major actual facts. First, my publisher Kris Millegan suggested that I read "Thy Will Be Done..." by Gerard Colby. That book details the generations-long (and multi-million dollar) effort by the Rockefellers to promote their Baptist religion everywhere in Latin America. I had no clue about that.
Further, I had always been taught since high school that the Colony/State of Maryland was a refuge for Catholics during the Colonial period. After just having finished a colonial history of Maryland recently, the reality was very different. Maryland was, in fact, mostly a refuge for Puritans fleeing Virginia.
There were five generations of Lords Baltimore. The first were Catholic by the later ones actually renounced their Catholicism in order to keep the title to their patent, i.e. to keep their title to Maryland. It seems that almost all of the colonies were overwhelmingly anti-Catholic all though some colonies were much more tolerant of all "dissenters" including Catholics.
In Maryland in 1655 we had the "Battle of the Severn" which was a pitched armed conflict between Cromwell and Royalist sympathizers, (i.e. Protestant vs. Catholic) in coastal Maryland.
In examining the distribution of Catholicism and Protestantism around the world, I have notices the following: some countries like Italy are almost 99% Catholic and others maybe 1% Catholic. By contrast, it seems like most foreign countries have around 5% Protestant citizens, no matter their geographical location. But not very many are majority Protestant, not nearly as many as are majority Catholic.
Getting to my main point, your highlighting of the recent "stealth revival" of Latin-American fascism is a huge story and a huge issue. Much more needs to be said and analyzed.
Sadly, American historians and textbooks tend to completely whitewash religious differences and their influence on recent (U.S.) history. The flagrant examples are the Christian vs. Buddhist bad blood in Vietnam and also the religious nature of Senator Joseph McCarthy's anti-Communist crusade.
In reality, IMHO Communism was at least a quasi-religion. It was battled almost exclusively worldwide by the Russian Orthodox Church and established churches in Europe, again mostly (but not exclusively) Catholic.
Let me get to the point----this website could use much more info from you and others about this nasty turn of events in Latin America, be it in Brazil, in Bolivia or in Venezuela.
I totally believe that right-wing Protestant sects are ripe for exploitation by the CIA in their covert ops in Latin America. But IMHO, that issue is totally beside the point compared to the question as to opinion (and position) of the Catholic Church about Christo-Fascism.
Most notably, you mentioned that urban Catholics in Latin-America are Rome-centered and rural Catholics are fans of "Liberation Theology". But please tell us your opinion about what that means DYNAMICALLY in the current political and power struggles in Bolivia, Venezuala, Brazil, Ecuador, Cuba, etc. etc. etc.
When you tell us that the cities are Rome-centered (by comparison to the rural areas), does Rome-centered equal extreme right-wing? Or does it mean that the Catholic Church (in these recent events) is neutral or is trying to be neutral?
What I do feel that I learned from my studies involving European Catholic political action in the 1930's and the 1940's is that the Vatican is over-blown in its alleged power and influence.
From what I have found, the Vatican has only 109 acres in Rome and that includes St Peter's church. So they just don't have space for a large bureaucracy or a "Vatican Pentagon" so to speak.
As far as I have found, in their limited quarters, they have only a library, an archives, a bank and one Secretary of State (in addition to living quarters). The power and influence (according to some experts) resides in the Bishops of whatever country is the most powerful at a given time. Just before WWII, that happened to be Germany. Further, in the mid-20th Century, half of all the Vatican revenues came just from Germany alone.
In fact, before the 1929 Lateran Treaty with Mussolini, the Vatican was basically financially bankrupt.
Backing your side in the debate of the above issues, it would be easy to see that Protestant Evangelical sects would be much better candidates for CIA exploitation than the worldwide Catholic Church. In fact, I could more easily imagine the Catholic hierarchy exploiting the CIA rather than the other way around.
My final point is that one of the major problems, maybe the most important of all surrounding this Latin American question is the role of Methodist Clergy (which is significant) as well as the role of other Christian groups in setting up this immigration "Trail of Tears" leading through Latin Amerca where children are being grossly exploited for extremely evil purposes. I could see the hand of the CIA in this also.
Thanks again for the terrific attention you have drawn to this growing problem in our Western Hemisphere neighborhood. I wonder how long it will be before US troops are again deployed in Latin America (as has been the history there)?
James Lateer
Never having been to those Latin American places, I admit I may be thinking in stereotypes. Further, my personal childhood experience with Protestant/Catholic hostility also colors my perceptions.
I have at least twice been surprised by major actual facts. First, my publisher Kris Millegan suggested that I read "Thy Will Be Done..." by Gerard Colby. That book details the generations-long (and multi-million dollar) effort by the Rockefellers to promote their Baptist religion everywhere in Latin America. I had no clue about that.
Further, I had always been taught since high school that the Colony/State of Maryland was a refuge for Catholics during the Colonial period. After just having finished a colonial history of Maryland recently, the reality was very different. Maryland was, in fact, mostly a refuge for Puritans fleeing Virginia.
There were five generations of Lords Baltimore. The first were Catholic by the later ones actually renounced their Catholicism in order to keep the title to their patent, i.e. to keep their title to Maryland. It seems that almost all of the colonies were overwhelmingly anti-Catholic all though some colonies were much more tolerant of all "dissenters" including Catholics.
In Maryland in 1655 we had the "Battle of the Severn" which was a pitched armed conflict between Cromwell and Royalist sympathizers, (i.e. Protestant vs. Catholic) in coastal Maryland.
In examining the distribution of Catholicism and Protestantism around the world, I have notices the following: some countries like Italy are almost 99% Catholic and others maybe 1% Catholic. By contrast, it seems like most foreign countries have around 5% Protestant citizens, no matter their geographical location. But not very many are majority Protestant, not nearly as many as are majority Catholic.
Getting to my main point, your highlighting of the recent "stealth revival" of Latin-American fascism is a huge story and a huge issue. Much more needs to be said and analyzed.
Sadly, American historians and textbooks tend to completely whitewash religious differences and their influence on recent (U.S.) history. The flagrant examples are the Christian vs. Buddhist bad blood in Vietnam and also the religious nature of Senator Joseph McCarthy's anti-Communist crusade.
In reality, IMHO Communism was at least a quasi-religion. It was battled almost exclusively worldwide by the Russian Orthodox Church and established churches in Europe, again mostly (but not exclusively) Catholic.
Let me get to the point----this website could use much more info from you and others about this nasty turn of events in Latin America, be it in Brazil, in Bolivia or in Venezuela.
I totally believe that right-wing Protestant sects are ripe for exploitation by the CIA in their covert ops in Latin America. But IMHO, that issue is totally beside the point compared to the question as to opinion (and position) of the Catholic Church about Christo-Fascism.
Most notably, you mentioned that urban Catholics in Latin-America are Rome-centered and rural Catholics are fans of "Liberation Theology". But please tell us your opinion about what that means DYNAMICALLY in the current political and power struggles in Bolivia, Venezuala, Brazil, Ecuador, Cuba, etc. etc. etc.
When you tell us that the cities are Rome-centered (by comparison to the rural areas), does Rome-centered equal extreme right-wing? Or does it mean that the Catholic Church (in these recent events) is neutral or is trying to be neutral?
What I do feel that I learned from my studies involving European Catholic political action in the 1930's and the 1940's is that the Vatican is over-blown in its alleged power and influence.
From what I have found, the Vatican has only 109 acres in Rome and that includes St Peter's church. So they just don't have space for a large bureaucracy or a "Vatican Pentagon" so to speak.
As far as I have found, in their limited quarters, they have only a library, an archives, a bank and one Secretary of State (in addition to living quarters). The power and influence (according to some experts) resides in the Bishops of whatever country is the most powerful at a given time. Just before WWII, that happened to be Germany. Further, in the mid-20th Century, half of all the Vatican revenues came just from Germany alone.
In fact, before the 1929 Lateran Treaty with Mussolini, the Vatican was basically financially bankrupt.
Backing your side in the debate of the above issues, it would be easy to see that Protestant Evangelical sects would be much better candidates for CIA exploitation than the worldwide Catholic Church. In fact, I could more easily imagine the Catholic hierarchy exploiting the CIA rather than the other way around.
My final point is that one of the major problems, maybe the most important of all surrounding this Latin American question is the role of Methodist Clergy (which is significant) as well as the role of other Christian groups in setting up this immigration "Trail of Tears" leading through Latin Amerca where children are being grossly exploited for extremely evil purposes. I could see the hand of the CIA in this also.
Thanks again for the terrific attention you have drawn to this growing problem in our Western Hemisphere neighborhood. I wonder how long it will be before US troops are again deployed in Latin America (as has been the history there)?
James Lateer