04-03-2010, 11:36 PM
Jim, the Judyth Vary story is very interesting and one which seems to fit a typical pattern in many intel victims that I am familiar with.
When Tosh Plumlee says he thinks there is something important somewhere in Judyth's history, then I would tend to believe him. Tosh is the real deal from what I know of him. I remember an article about him many years ago about his high altitude parachute jumping which I found fascinating.
Jim, for whatever reasons, I think you have tapped into something big here with your recent interest and communications with Judyth Vary. I just don't know what it is, but it does seem to have some teeth and needs to be thoroughly researched.
I do not have the factual knowledge to evaluate the issues being argued about between Judyth and her detractors and those who doubt much of her story, and therefore I cannot evaluate who is correct on what parts of her story or not. And beyond all that I believe her claim that she has been harassed and is still being harassed. I think it is likely that it is because of some fact which is a thread that when pulled could open up a very big issue that intel does not want opened up.
I stand with my initial view that when comparing the overall situation around Judyth as described, it fits well with many of the cases I am familiar with of intel harassment of folks who know too much about certain government secrets (actual operations or just sources and methods they don't want revealed), folks that somebody high up decides have to be harassed, discredited and stalked. And often there are break-ins along with the stalking, theft of personal items, interference with personal communications and mail, harassment by the IRS and taxing authorities and other government entities and interference in obtaining and holding employment. There are even cases where complex psyops are initiated to turn one's family members against the target.
And now it is known that much of this harassment work is being subcontracted out to specialized corporations that have their own intel operations due to the government's obsession with privatization. This gives even less accountability of intel, breeds lawlessness and provides even better deniability. I can say that I am amazed at just how many resources intel agencies can muster when they want someone stalked, harassed, discredited and beat down. Intel has folks embedded almost everywhere it seems, even though it has been technically illegal for the CIA and miltel to working domestically. Read former Gov. Jesse Ventura's book if you doubt this, or consider operation mockingbird.
Coordinated Psyops programs are the big thing now and like Tosh suggests, only rarely does the government resort to murder anymore unless it is a firsthand witness who directly threatens the existence of a very important deep cover black op. And a fair number of these harassments are carried out as training operations for new intel trainees, some in miltel, some in police intel, and some in various intel units of alphabet agencies. And some of these psyops are used as human subject experiments on how to develop better mind control and interception operations in the future. There appears to be no shortage of new personnel with no consciences to do this dirty work and no apparent shortage of money to finance these operations either.
The best way to stop these illegal activities is to defend them, and these intel agencies know this and that is why some of them are so committed and addicted to raising money from illegal arms sales and drug trafficking. Some of the top officials are allowed to take a cut off the top as long as they funnel a good portion of these funds into special offshore accounts.
So you have a very interesting Lady Judyth Vary who has several important established facts surrounding her story. And then we have some respected researchers disagree with her on much of the rest of her information she has presented and claimed. They imply she is confabulating and doubt her overall veracity. And others who have heard her story believe that she is truthful but perhaps misunderstood and taken out of context.
Even if any of her story is proven to have been partly or mostly incorrect this does not impact the important facts that have already been established. In a number of cases I am very familiar with it usually turns out the reason the person is being harassed by intel is not what the target understands, it turns out to be some small detail or fact that some higher up in intel has decided must remain covered up. Sometimes this is for personal reasons to protect oneself or career, or some long term set of operations, and often to protect and ongoing program that the public would not tolerate it if it became known.
And of course there is always the somewhat infrequent case where one agency pushes a cover up too hard or carelessly on purpose in order to create a leak, and then they work to manage it the way they want. Thus they may do this to expose a program which is competing for dollars, etc., in order to discredit that program or those responsible, sometimes for political reasons, too. I don't know first hand, but I was once told of a secret conflict between the air force and Nasa over funding and that the af had instituted several operations to discredit Nasa and maker their funding much more difficult. It is possible that some agency is using the Judyth matter to pull a string to expose a competitor or stop a program they don't believe in for whatever reason. Quite often a lot of these Psyops matters are very strange in their etiology and hidden agendas.
One more thing. Now is the time for a little compassion. Whatever the way Judyth's story plays out after her book is released for sale, there appears to be no reason to disbelieve that she has had great difficulties to deal with since the JFK assassination for probably a myriad of reasons. And she is a survivor. I say hat's off to her for that and I can empathize with all that she has gone through because of being harassed, because I have seen this type of occurrence a number of times close up. It does occur, it is real, and it usually occurs for unknown reasons which typically take time and a lot of research to sort out. And the most prominent feature ALWAYS is the part related to the DISCREDITING of the target, which is accomplished by top experts in many cases. This strong effort is always a part of any "interception" psyop whether or not related to embellishments or claims of ones story.
I have been told of a number of cases where a high level "asset" with a lot of first hand knowledge of criminal deep cover black ops wanted to "retire". In order to be allowed to walk away with no future ties, the op must agree to allow himself to be arrested, tried and convicted for some offense (whether he did it or not) and it might involve the use of a photo-accurate double if necessary. The more serious the operations that the op was involved in (especially seriously criminal and international deep cover black ops), the more serious the rigged offense and the longer the jail time, that is, the more total the discrediting must be.
Some ops who go off the reservation are arrested for trumped up offenses and some are real, like Edwin Wilson, who broke the law at the direction of his "country" and then was hung out to dry because he allegedly got sloppy and got caught. Or Michael Reconosuito who went off the reservation and testified in the infamous and unresolved Inslaw case and has been made a permanent intel prisoner because of it. Or take the case of Aldrich Ames who was supposedly arrested to being a double agent and taking money as a part of his regular job. This is standard operating procedure for some agents in his capacity and position. But the real reason he was arrested and put away was that he was the one the German BKA called regarding the plane headed for "Lockerbee" and said there is a bomb being loaded on the plane, what do yo want us to do? Ames allegedly said, "let it go" and this was allegedly done to get rid of Charles Tiny McKee and his crew which uncovered the opium pipeline via TWA and were coming back to report it and stop it. That is allegedly the real reason that Ames sits in prison, it was his competitors way of justice.
It is always important to understand that interception ops and psyoops are usually conducted according to formulas which have been determined in the field over many years to be effective. The local police and Sheriffs usually always "stand-down" when credentials and badges are flipped out. Employers usually want to "serve their country" especially after the 9/11 attacks with all the concern for "terrorism". Utility companies, phone and internet providers jump like a monkey on a string to requests for assistance. The major media are usually very, very compliant with requests by intel. You get the picture here. It is very hard for a victim to ever get a fair shake.
When Tosh Plumlee says he thinks there is something important somewhere in Judyth's history, then I would tend to believe him. Tosh is the real deal from what I know of him. I remember an article about him many years ago about his high altitude parachute jumping which I found fascinating.
Jim, for whatever reasons, I think you have tapped into something big here with your recent interest and communications with Judyth Vary. I just don't know what it is, but it does seem to have some teeth and needs to be thoroughly researched.
I do not have the factual knowledge to evaluate the issues being argued about between Judyth and her detractors and those who doubt much of her story, and therefore I cannot evaluate who is correct on what parts of her story or not. And beyond all that I believe her claim that she has been harassed and is still being harassed. I think it is likely that it is because of some fact which is a thread that when pulled could open up a very big issue that intel does not want opened up.
I stand with my initial view that when comparing the overall situation around Judyth as described, it fits well with many of the cases I am familiar with of intel harassment of folks who know too much about certain government secrets (actual operations or just sources and methods they don't want revealed), folks that somebody high up decides have to be harassed, discredited and stalked. And often there are break-ins along with the stalking, theft of personal items, interference with personal communications and mail, harassment by the IRS and taxing authorities and other government entities and interference in obtaining and holding employment. There are even cases where complex psyops are initiated to turn one's family members against the target.
And now it is known that much of this harassment work is being subcontracted out to specialized corporations that have their own intel operations due to the government's obsession with privatization. This gives even less accountability of intel, breeds lawlessness and provides even better deniability. I can say that I am amazed at just how many resources intel agencies can muster when they want someone stalked, harassed, discredited and beat down. Intel has folks embedded almost everywhere it seems, even though it has been technically illegal for the CIA and miltel to working domestically. Read former Gov. Jesse Ventura's book if you doubt this, or consider operation mockingbird.
Coordinated Psyops programs are the big thing now and like Tosh suggests, only rarely does the government resort to murder anymore unless it is a firsthand witness who directly threatens the existence of a very important deep cover black op. And a fair number of these harassments are carried out as training operations for new intel trainees, some in miltel, some in police intel, and some in various intel units of alphabet agencies. And some of these psyops are used as human subject experiments on how to develop better mind control and interception operations in the future. There appears to be no shortage of new personnel with no consciences to do this dirty work and no apparent shortage of money to finance these operations either.
The best way to stop these illegal activities is to defend them, and these intel agencies know this and that is why some of them are so committed and addicted to raising money from illegal arms sales and drug trafficking. Some of the top officials are allowed to take a cut off the top as long as they funnel a good portion of these funds into special offshore accounts.
So you have a very interesting Lady Judyth Vary who has several important established facts surrounding her story. And then we have some respected researchers disagree with her on much of the rest of her information she has presented and claimed. They imply she is confabulating and doubt her overall veracity. And others who have heard her story believe that she is truthful but perhaps misunderstood and taken out of context.
Even if any of her story is proven to have been partly or mostly incorrect this does not impact the important facts that have already been established. In a number of cases I am very familiar with it usually turns out the reason the person is being harassed by intel is not what the target understands, it turns out to be some small detail or fact that some higher up in intel has decided must remain covered up. Sometimes this is for personal reasons to protect oneself or career, or some long term set of operations, and often to protect and ongoing program that the public would not tolerate it if it became known.
And of course there is always the somewhat infrequent case where one agency pushes a cover up too hard or carelessly on purpose in order to create a leak, and then they work to manage it the way they want. Thus they may do this to expose a program which is competing for dollars, etc., in order to discredit that program or those responsible, sometimes for political reasons, too. I don't know first hand, but I was once told of a secret conflict between the air force and Nasa over funding and that the af had instituted several operations to discredit Nasa and maker their funding much more difficult. It is possible that some agency is using the Judyth matter to pull a string to expose a competitor or stop a program they don't believe in for whatever reason. Quite often a lot of these Psyops matters are very strange in their etiology and hidden agendas.
One more thing. Now is the time for a little compassion. Whatever the way Judyth's story plays out after her book is released for sale, there appears to be no reason to disbelieve that she has had great difficulties to deal with since the JFK assassination for probably a myriad of reasons. And she is a survivor. I say hat's off to her for that and I can empathize with all that she has gone through because of being harassed, because I have seen this type of occurrence a number of times close up. It does occur, it is real, and it usually occurs for unknown reasons which typically take time and a lot of research to sort out. And the most prominent feature ALWAYS is the part related to the DISCREDITING of the target, which is accomplished by top experts in many cases. This strong effort is always a part of any "interception" psyop whether or not related to embellishments or claims of ones story.
I have been told of a number of cases where a high level "asset" with a lot of first hand knowledge of criminal deep cover black ops wanted to "retire". In order to be allowed to walk away with no future ties, the op must agree to allow himself to be arrested, tried and convicted for some offense (whether he did it or not) and it might involve the use of a photo-accurate double if necessary. The more serious the operations that the op was involved in (especially seriously criminal and international deep cover black ops), the more serious the rigged offense and the longer the jail time, that is, the more total the discrediting must be.
Some ops who go off the reservation are arrested for trumped up offenses and some are real, like Edwin Wilson, who broke the law at the direction of his "country" and then was hung out to dry because he allegedly got sloppy and got caught. Or Michael Reconosuito who went off the reservation and testified in the infamous and unresolved Inslaw case and has been made a permanent intel prisoner because of it. Or take the case of Aldrich Ames who was supposedly arrested to being a double agent and taking money as a part of his regular job. This is standard operating procedure for some agents in his capacity and position. But the real reason he was arrested and put away was that he was the one the German BKA called regarding the plane headed for "Lockerbee" and said there is a bomb being loaded on the plane, what do yo want us to do? Ames allegedly said, "let it go" and this was allegedly done to get rid of Charles Tiny McKee and his crew which uncovered the opium pipeline via TWA and were coming back to report it and stop it. That is allegedly the real reason that Ames sits in prison, it was his competitors way of justice.
It is always important to understand that interception ops and psyoops are usually conducted according to formulas which have been determined in the field over many years to be effective. The local police and Sheriffs usually always "stand-down" when credentials and badges are flipped out. Employers usually want to "serve their country" especially after the 9/11 attacks with all the concern for "terrorism". Utility companies, phone and internet providers jump like a monkey on a string to requests for assistance. The major media are usually very, very compliant with requests by intel. You get the picture here. It is very hard for a victim to ever get a fair shake.