16-03-2010, 07:56 PM
JUDYTH RESPONDS ABOUT LIFTON'S ILLEGAL TAPE RECORDING
NOTE: This causes me more distress than I can say about my good
friend, David Lifton. I wish none of this had happened. It grieves me.
And Jack maintains that there is nothing new to be learned from Judyth!
JUDYTH REPLIES:
WE MUST BEIEVE THAT DAVID LIFTON, WHO PLACED A STORY SAYING I KNEW OSAMA
AND LEARNED HOW TO FLY PLANES BUT NOT TO LAND THEM ON THE INTERNET, NOT LONG
AFTER NINE-ELEVEN--MAKING ME THE TARGET OF WEIRDOS AND PARANOIDS WHO THEN
HARRASSED ME--WILL GIVE YOU A TRUE RECKONING OF WHAT WAS ON THE TAPE, EVEN
THOUGH HE SPENT A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE INTERVIEW TIME CONCERNED ABOUT
HOW "60 MNUTES" TREATED ME, IF I HAD FIRST CLASS TRANSPORTATION, FOR EXAMPLE.
WHEN I TOLD "60 MINUTES", THE NEXT TME THEY FLEW ME TO NEW YORK, I WENT FIRST
CLASS.
LIFTON INTERVIEWED RACHEL OSWALD, PROMISING HE WOULD HELP HER FINANCIALLY,
GOT THE INTERVIEW WHILE THE GIRL WAS WORKING AS A WAITRESS WORKING HER
WAY THROUGH COLLEGE, THEN SOLD HIS STORY FOR $$$$$ BUT GAVE HER NARY A DIME.
THIS GOOD RESEARCHER TALKED TO ME ONCE ON THE PHONE, ILLEGALLY TAPING THE
CONVERSATION WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE, WHICH IS A FELONY IN CALIFORNIA. I WILL
NOW PROCEED TO RESPOND TO WHAT IS BELOW:
Scroll down to the caps in bold to see my replies. JVB
(2) JUDYTH TALKES ABOUT DAVID ATLEE PHILLIPS
LEE TOLD ME THAT DAVID ATLEE PHILLIPS WAS THE ONE WHO MASTERMINDED MUCH OF
THE ASSASSINATION OF JOHN F. KENNEDY. HE TOLD ME THAT PHILLIPS AND OTHERS
WOULD BE PRESENT TO WATCH JFK GO DOWN. ADDITIONAL DETAILS ARE IN THE BOOK.
An excerpt from David Lifton's conversation with Judyth.
On the question of whether Lee every (sic) met with David Atlee Phillips and whether
Lee knew Phillips by his real name; and the question of whether other employees
at Reily knew Phillips by either or both names ("Bishop" or Phillips), here's what
Judyth told me on March 4, 2000:
QUOTE ON: (FROM LIFTON'S ILLEGAL FELONIOUS TAPE: YOU MUST TAKE HIS WORD FOR
ITS ACCURACY...THE SAME PERSON WHO POSTED THAT I SAID I DID CANCER RESEARCH
INSIDE A COFFEE COMPANY...A JOKE, BUT PEOPLE TOOK IT SERIOUSLY...HIS WHOLE
APPROACH WAS TO MAKE A JOKE OF MY IDENTITY AS A WITNESS. HE NEVER MET ME.
REMEMBER THAT. HIS BIOGRAPHY ON LEE NEVER PUBLISHED. REMEMBER THAT, TOO.
JVB: What I simply want to do. . I want you to know that [Oswald] is an
innocent man; this is a man who had a chance to get out of this thing, and
he stuck it out. OK? He stuck it out. Of course, he wanted to get out
alive, and all that, but that is not the point, but he, [starts to get upset] he
knew that; [pause, starts to cry--dsl] he knew, we knew things were really
bad when Phillips didn't show up.
==BY THE TIME THIS RECORDING BY LIFTON WAS MADE, I KNEW THAT LEE'S "MR. B"
CONTACT--WHO ONCE TOLD LEE HIS NAME WAS 'BENTON' AND ANOTHER TIME SOUNDED
LIKE 'BENSON' --WAS INTRODUCED TO HIM IN TEXAS EARLY SEPTEMBER AS ' BISHOP'
WHEN HE WAS WITH VECIANA THERE.
THIS WE DISCERNED AT THE END WAS DAVID ATLEE PHILLIPS. WHEN I SAY 'PHILLIPS',
I MEAN HIS HANDLER IN MEXICO CITY, WITH WHOM LEE TRIED TO MAKE CONTACT
WHEN THE MEDICAL CONTACT AT THE SOUVENIR SHOP FAILED TO APPEAR. PHILLIPS
HAD FLOWN TO WASHINGTON AND WAS UNAVAILABLE. IT WAS A BLOW TO OSWALD.==
He told me, [recovers; now sounds cheerful-DSL] listen -I didn't know
what David Atlee Phillips name was until our last phone conversation,
or maybe a couple before that. I can't remember. But he told me, to
NEVER forget his name. He told me, "never forget his name."
DSL: How did he know his name, by the way?
JVB: Oh, he met him. But, listen, I'd overheard, we'd overheard, I'd
overheard his name before, over at Reily's. They talked about a guy
named Bishop, and [someone] said, 'That's Phillips", and so I had
an idea who that was.
==DAVID ATLEE PHILLIPS HAD BEEN IN NEW ORLEANS BEFORE OR AFTER THE DATE
MAY 15, 1961 WHEN INCA WAS FORMED, AND FUNDRAISING FOR THE INFORMATION
COUNCIL OF THE AMERICAS WAS BEING ARRANGED BY OCHSNER AND BUTLER.
PHILLIPS WAS THERE AND PROVIDED IDEAS FOR PROPAGANDA AND FUNDING.
HE DID NOT DISGUISE HIS NAME.
RECORDS EXIST ABOUT THIS VISIT.
DR. PLATZMAN HAS ONE SUCH RECORD.
I WAS PRESENT AT MONAGHAN'S DESK WHEN REILY'S SECRETARY CAME DOWN TO FIND OUT
IF HERBERT PHILBRICK WAS GOING TO GET A FREE FLIGHT TO NEW ORLEANS THROUGH A REILY
CONTRIBUTION TO INCA, OR WAS IT A FREE STAY AT BRENT HOUSE AT OCHSNER'S, AND SO ON....
MONAGHAN WAS IN CHARGE OF FINANCE, CREDIT, FIELD OPERATIONS FOR THE COMPANY, AND
SECURITY, TOO. HE WAS A FORMER FBI MAN.
MY EARS PERKED UP BECAUSE LEE OSWALD WAS INTERESTED IN MEETING PHILBRICK, WHO DID
ARRIVE A FEW WEEKS LATER AND GAVE A PRESENTATION, WHEN LEE WAS ABLE TO MEET HIM.
EVENTUALLY, PHILBRICK DID BECOME AN OFFICIAL ADVISOR TO INCA , I THINK IN 1964. THE
SECRETARY MENTIONED THAT A "MR. BISHOP" HAD CALLED TO SAY HE WOULD PROVIDE FUNDS
FOR THE FLIGHT THROUGH REILY'S. A MEETING WAS GOING TO BE HELD ABUT IT. SHE WANTED
TO KNOW WHO "BISHOP" WAS, AS SHE HAD NOBODY ON FILE BY THAT NAME. AND MONAGHAN
SAID QUITE CLEARLY, "THAT'S PHILLIPS."
I TOLD THIS TO LEE, WHO LATER SAID HE HEARD PHILLIPS HAD COME TO INCA. SO WE BOTH
HEARD THE SAME THING, BUT I THINK I HEARD IT FIRST. BY THE LAST PHONE CALL, LEE HAD
DECIDED THAT BISHOP AND PHILLIPS HAD TO BE THE SAME PERSON.==
This raises obvious questions - and here are some David had for Martin Shackelford:
QUESTIONS FOR MARTIN SHACKELFORD:
1) Did Judyth tell you, as she did me, that she knew Phillips by his real name,
*and* by his alias?
LOOK AGAIN AT WHAT I ACTUALLY SAID, ACCORDING TO LIFTON HMSELF:
But, listen, I'd overheard, we'd overheard, I'd overheard
his name before, over at Reily's. They talked about a guy
named Bishop, and [someone] said, 'That's Phillips", and so
I had an idea who that was.
==LIFTON'S OVERSIMPLIFIED QUESTION MAKES IT SEEM THAT I STATED THAT I
I KNEW PHILLIPS BY BOTH NAMES. OF COURSE I DID NOT 'KNOW' HIM AT ALL.
I HAD NO CONCEPT OF WHAT HE LOOKED LIKE.
ONLY BECAUSE LEE DIDN'T KNOW THE REAL NAME OF HIS TOP HANDLER DID WE
KEEP ALERT WHEN NAMES WERE DROPPED.
THE FACT THAT PHILBRICK WAS GOING TO COME TO NEW ORLEANS TO BE
INTERVIEWED BY OCHSNER AND CHARTER NCA MEMBER REILY WAS IMPORTANT
TO ME BECAUSE LEE WANTED TO MEET PHILBRICK. SO I LISTENED CAREFULLY
ABOUT PHILBRICK, WHICH HELPED ME REMEMBER THE REST OF THE CONVERSATION...
QUESTIONS CAN BE WORDED IN A WAY THAT MAKES A DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION
OF THE REALITY. I NEVER 'KNEW' PHLLIPS. I NEVER 'KNEW' BISHOP.==
2) Did she tell you that Lee Oswald knew Phillips by his real name, *and* his alias?
==AGAIN, AND I SAY THE SAME THING IN THE DOCUMENTARY, LEE NEVER KNEW, WHEN
HE MET BISHP, THAT HE WAS SPEAKING TO PHILLIPS. HE FIGURED IT OUT LATER. THIS
LOADED QUESTION MAKES IT SEEM THAT I WAS SAYING LEE KNEW BOTH NAMES, AS IF,
PERHAPS, FOR A LONG TIME...THAT'S NOT WHAT I SAID .==
3) If Phillips was involved in a covert operation that involved LHO, do you think
he'd tell him BOTH his alias and his real name?
==OF COURSE NOT. AND I NEVER SAID PHILLIPS TOLD LEE ANY SUCH THING. BUT THE
FACT THAT DAVID ATLEE PHILLPS' RESIDENCE WAS ACTUALLY IN FORT WORTH, VERY
CLOSE TO DALLAS, LEE WAS ABLE TO HUNT IT DOWN IN THE END.
AND THAT IS WHY, IN HIS LAST CALLS --AND ESPECIALLY THE VERY LAST CALL -- LEE
MADE A POINT, AS IT SAYS CLEARLY IN TMWKK DOCUMENTARY, THAT AT LAST HE HAD
FIGURED OUT WHO HIS HANDLER WAS--AT LAST.
IT IS DISCONCERTING THAT LIFTON CREATED THE IMPRESSION OF ASSERTIONS THAT
NEVER EXISTED, THAT I NEVER MADE, FOR YOU TO SEE FOR YOURSELF. FORTUNATELY,
INTELLIGENT READERS HERE CAN DISCERN THE TRUE MEANING.==
4) IF Phillips was involved in a covert operation, do you think he'd have anything
whatsoever to do with employees at Reily Coffee-again for any reason;
but, just for the sake of argument, let's say he did.
==IN HIS HUBRIS, MR.LIFTON MADE A FALSE ASSUMPTION THAT THESE WERE ORDINARY
EMPLOYEES. HE FAILED TO OBAIN MORE INFORMATION. MR. MONAGHAN WAS THE VICE
PRESIDENT, A FORMER FBI MAN. GERRY HEMMING IS ON RECORD SAYING MR. REILY OF
THE REILY COFFEE COMPANY HAD WORKED FOR THE CIA FOR YEARS. PHILLIPS IS ON
RECORD VISITING NEW ORLEANS AND BEING INVOLVED WITH INCA FUNDRAISING
OPERATIONS. REILY WAS A CHARTER MEMBER OF INCA AND ONE OF INCA'S MOST
GENEROUS DONORS. LIFTON'S QUESTIONS HAVE BEEN CIRCULATING--BASED ON A
FALSE PREMISE--CONFUSING GOOD RESEARCHERS FOR YEARS. WHY DID HE DO THIS?==
Do you believe that he'd be using both his real name AND his alias?
==OF COURSE NOT. STRETCH THE TRUTH ENOUGH AND I CAN SAY DAVID LIFTON IS
A LIPTON TEA BAG.==
If so, this has got to be one of the most insecure operations in intelligence history:
==NOW HE MAKES A SPIEL, BASED ON NOTHING==
not only does the low level agent, supposedly working directly under the CIA' Chief of
the Western Hemisphere Division know both his names,
==SPECIOUS, UNTRUE, UNINFORMED, AND TWISTING THE FACTS HE WAS GIVEN==
but so does his girlfriend! And, in addition, so do numerous others at the coffee company
where he is employed, oiling the machinery!
==NUMEROUS OTHERS? REILY'S SECRETARY AND MY BOSS, THE VICE PRESIDENT. AT
ANY TIME, MR. LIPTON, ER, MR. LIFTON, COULD HAVE COME TO CORRECT CONCLUSIONS,
HAD HE NOT PRE-DECIDED TO TRASH ME AS A WITNESS, POSSIBLY SO HIS BOOK WOULD
NOT HAVE TO INCLUDE ANYTHING ABOUT ME IN HIS BIOGRAPHY ABOUT OSWALD. I HAD
ALLOWED HIM TO INTERVIEW ME BECAUSE I'D HOPED TO HELP HIS BOOK BECOME A
SUCCESS WITH NEW INFORMATION ABOUT A NEW WITNESS. LIFTON DECIDED TO DO A
NUMBER ON ME, INSTEAD.==
[quote name='Barb Junkkarinen' date='Mar 15 2010, 11:34 PM' post='186991']
[quote name='James H. Fetzer' post='186935' date='Mar 15 2010, 04:15 PM']
(2) JUDYTH TALKES ABOUT DAVID ATLEE PHILLIPS
LEE TOLD ME THAT DAVID ATLEE PHILLIPS WAS THE ONE WHO MASTERMINDED MUCH OF THE
ASSASSINATION OF JOHN F. KENNEDY. HE TOLD ME THAT PHILLIPS AND OTHERS WOULD BE PRESENT
TO WATCH JFK GO DOWN. ADDITIONAL DETAILS ARE IN THE BOOK.[/quote]
An excerpt from David Lifton's conversation with Judyth.
On the question of whether Lee every met with David Atlee Phillips and whether
Lee knew Phillips by his real name; and the question of whether other employees
at Reily knew Phillips by either or both names ("Bishop" or Phillips), here's what
Judyth told me on March 4, 2000:
QUOTE ON:
JVB: What I simply want to do. . I want you to know that [Oswald] is an
innocent man; this is a man who had a chance to get out of this thing, and
he stuck it out. OK? He stuck it out. Of course, he wanted to get out
alive, and all that, but that is not the point, but he, [starts to get upset] he
knew that; [pause, starts to cry--dsl] he knew, we knew things were really
bad when Phillips didn't show up.
He told me, [recovers; now sounds cheerful-DSL] listen -I didn't know
what David Atlee Phillips name was until our last phone conversation,
or maybe a couple before that. I can't remember. But he told me, to
NEVER forget his name. He told me, "never forget his name."
DSL: How did he know his name, by the way?
JVB: Oh, he met him. But, listen, I'd overheard, we'd overheard, I'd
overheard his name before, over at Reily's. They talked about a guy
named Bishop, and [someone] said, 'That's Phillips", and so I had an
idea who that was.
This raises obvious questions - and here are the questions David had for Martin Shackelford:
QUESTIONS FOR MARTIN SHACKELFORD:
1) Did Judyth tell you, as she did me, that she knew Phillips by his real name,
*and* by his alias?
2) Did she tell you that Lee Oswald knew Phillips by his real name, *and* his
alias??
3) If Phillips was involved in a covert operation that involved LHO, do you think
he'd tell him BOTH his alias and his real name?
4) IF Phillips was involved in a covert operation, do you think he'd have
anything whatsoever to do with employees at Reily Coffee-again for any reason;
but, just for the sake of argument, let's say he did.
Do you believe that he'd be using both his real name AND his alias? If so, this
has got to be one of the most insecure operations in intelligence history: not only
does the low level agent, supposedly working directly under the CIA' Chief of
the Western Hemisphere Division know both his names, but so does his
girlfriend! And, in addition, so do numerous others at the coffee company where
he is employed, oiling the machinery!
Indeed, David's last comment sums it up rather well, imo.
Midline, upper lip, terminating at the vermillion margin is a 1/4 inch pale scar.
NOTE: The vermillion is where the pink lip tissue and the skin meet.
Barb :-)
[/quote]
NOTE: This causes me more distress than I can say about my good
friend, David Lifton. I wish none of this had happened. It grieves me.
And Jack maintains that there is nothing new to be learned from Judyth!
JUDYTH REPLIES:
WE MUST BEIEVE THAT DAVID LIFTON, WHO PLACED A STORY SAYING I KNEW OSAMA
AND LEARNED HOW TO FLY PLANES BUT NOT TO LAND THEM ON THE INTERNET, NOT LONG
AFTER NINE-ELEVEN--MAKING ME THE TARGET OF WEIRDOS AND PARANOIDS WHO THEN
HARRASSED ME--WILL GIVE YOU A TRUE RECKONING OF WHAT WAS ON THE TAPE, EVEN
THOUGH HE SPENT A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE INTERVIEW TIME CONCERNED ABOUT
HOW "60 MNUTES" TREATED ME, IF I HAD FIRST CLASS TRANSPORTATION, FOR EXAMPLE.
WHEN I TOLD "60 MINUTES", THE NEXT TME THEY FLEW ME TO NEW YORK, I WENT FIRST
CLASS.
LIFTON INTERVIEWED RACHEL OSWALD, PROMISING HE WOULD HELP HER FINANCIALLY,
GOT THE INTERVIEW WHILE THE GIRL WAS WORKING AS A WAITRESS WORKING HER
WAY THROUGH COLLEGE, THEN SOLD HIS STORY FOR $$$$$ BUT GAVE HER NARY A DIME.
THIS GOOD RESEARCHER TALKED TO ME ONCE ON THE PHONE, ILLEGALLY TAPING THE
CONVERSATION WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE, WHICH IS A FELONY IN CALIFORNIA. I WILL
NOW PROCEED TO RESPOND TO WHAT IS BELOW:
Scroll down to the caps in bold to see my replies. JVB
(2) JUDYTH TALKES ABOUT DAVID ATLEE PHILLIPS
LEE TOLD ME THAT DAVID ATLEE PHILLIPS WAS THE ONE WHO MASTERMINDED MUCH OF
THE ASSASSINATION OF JOHN F. KENNEDY. HE TOLD ME THAT PHILLIPS AND OTHERS
WOULD BE PRESENT TO WATCH JFK GO DOWN. ADDITIONAL DETAILS ARE IN THE BOOK.
An excerpt from David Lifton's conversation with Judyth.
On the question of whether Lee every (sic) met with David Atlee Phillips and whether
Lee knew Phillips by his real name; and the question of whether other employees
at Reily knew Phillips by either or both names ("Bishop" or Phillips), here's what
Judyth told me on March 4, 2000:
QUOTE ON: (FROM LIFTON'S ILLEGAL FELONIOUS TAPE: YOU MUST TAKE HIS WORD FOR
ITS ACCURACY...THE SAME PERSON WHO POSTED THAT I SAID I DID CANCER RESEARCH
INSIDE A COFFEE COMPANY...A JOKE, BUT PEOPLE TOOK IT SERIOUSLY...HIS WHOLE
APPROACH WAS TO MAKE A JOKE OF MY IDENTITY AS A WITNESS. HE NEVER MET ME.
REMEMBER THAT. HIS BIOGRAPHY ON LEE NEVER PUBLISHED. REMEMBER THAT, TOO.
JVB: What I simply want to do. . I want you to know that [Oswald] is an
innocent man; this is a man who had a chance to get out of this thing, and
he stuck it out. OK? He stuck it out. Of course, he wanted to get out
alive, and all that, but that is not the point, but he, [starts to get upset] he
knew that; [pause, starts to cry--dsl] he knew, we knew things were really
bad when Phillips didn't show up.
==BY THE TIME THIS RECORDING BY LIFTON WAS MADE, I KNEW THAT LEE'S "MR. B"
CONTACT--WHO ONCE TOLD LEE HIS NAME WAS 'BENTON' AND ANOTHER TIME SOUNDED
LIKE 'BENSON' --WAS INTRODUCED TO HIM IN TEXAS EARLY SEPTEMBER AS ' BISHOP'
WHEN HE WAS WITH VECIANA THERE.
THIS WE DISCERNED AT THE END WAS DAVID ATLEE PHILLIPS. WHEN I SAY 'PHILLIPS',
I MEAN HIS HANDLER IN MEXICO CITY, WITH WHOM LEE TRIED TO MAKE CONTACT
WHEN THE MEDICAL CONTACT AT THE SOUVENIR SHOP FAILED TO APPEAR. PHILLIPS
HAD FLOWN TO WASHINGTON AND WAS UNAVAILABLE. IT WAS A BLOW TO OSWALD.==
He told me, [recovers; now sounds cheerful-DSL] listen -I didn't know
what David Atlee Phillips name was until our last phone conversation,
or maybe a couple before that. I can't remember. But he told me, to
NEVER forget his name. He told me, "never forget his name."
DSL: How did he know his name, by the way?
JVB: Oh, he met him. But, listen, I'd overheard, we'd overheard, I'd
overheard his name before, over at Reily's. They talked about a guy
named Bishop, and [someone] said, 'That's Phillips", and so I had
an idea who that was.
==DAVID ATLEE PHILLIPS HAD BEEN IN NEW ORLEANS BEFORE OR AFTER THE DATE
MAY 15, 1961 WHEN INCA WAS FORMED, AND FUNDRAISING FOR THE INFORMATION
COUNCIL OF THE AMERICAS WAS BEING ARRANGED BY OCHSNER AND BUTLER.
PHILLIPS WAS THERE AND PROVIDED IDEAS FOR PROPAGANDA AND FUNDING.
HE DID NOT DISGUISE HIS NAME.
RECORDS EXIST ABOUT THIS VISIT.
DR. PLATZMAN HAS ONE SUCH RECORD.
I WAS PRESENT AT MONAGHAN'S DESK WHEN REILY'S SECRETARY CAME DOWN TO FIND OUT
IF HERBERT PHILBRICK WAS GOING TO GET A FREE FLIGHT TO NEW ORLEANS THROUGH A REILY
CONTRIBUTION TO INCA, OR WAS IT A FREE STAY AT BRENT HOUSE AT OCHSNER'S, AND SO ON....
MONAGHAN WAS IN CHARGE OF FINANCE, CREDIT, FIELD OPERATIONS FOR THE COMPANY, AND
SECURITY, TOO. HE WAS A FORMER FBI MAN.
MY EARS PERKED UP BECAUSE LEE OSWALD WAS INTERESTED IN MEETING PHILBRICK, WHO DID
ARRIVE A FEW WEEKS LATER AND GAVE A PRESENTATION, WHEN LEE WAS ABLE TO MEET HIM.
EVENTUALLY, PHILBRICK DID BECOME AN OFFICIAL ADVISOR TO INCA , I THINK IN 1964. THE
SECRETARY MENTIONED THAT A "MR. BISHOP" HAD CALLED TO SAY HE WOULD PROVIDE FUNDS
FOR THE FLIGHT THROUGH REILY'S. A MEETING WAS GOING TO BE HELD ABUT IT. SHE WANTED
TO KNOW WHO "BISHOP" WAS, AS SHE HAD NOBODY ON FILE BY THAT NAME. AND MONAGHAN
SAID QUITE CLEARLY, "THAT'S PHILLIPS."
I TOLD THIS TO LEE, WHO LATER SAID HE HEARD PHILLIPS HAD COME TO INCA. SO WE BOTH
HEARD THE SAME THING, BUT I THINK I HEARD IT FIRST. BY THE LAST PHONE CALL, LEE HAD
DECIDED THAT BISHOP AND PHILLIPS HAD TO BE THE SAME PERSON.==
This raises obvious questions - and here are some David had for Martin Shackelford:
QUESTIONS FOR MARTIN SHACKELFORD:
1) Did Judyth tell you, as she did me, that she knew Phillips by his real name,
*and* by his alias?
LOOK AGAIN AT WHAT I ACTUALLY SAID, ACCORDING TO LIFTON HMSELF:
But, listen, I'd overheard, we'd overheard, I'd overheard
his name before, over at Reily's. They talked about a guy
named Bishop, and [someone] said, 'That's Phillips", and so
I had an idea who that was.
==LIFTON'S OVERSIMPLIFIED QUESTION MAKES IT SEEM THAT I STATED THAT I
I KNEW PHILLIPS BY BOTH NAMES. OF COURSE I DID NOT 'KNOW' HIM AT ALL.
I HAD NO CONCEPT OF WHAT HE LOOKED LIKE.
ONLY BECAUSE LEE DIDN'T KNOW THE REAL NAME OF HIS TOP HANDLER DID WE
KEEP ALERT WHEN NAMES WERE DROPPED.
THE FACT THAT PHILBRICK WAS GOING TO COME TO NEW ORLEANS TO BE
INTERVIEWED BY OCHSNER AND CHARTER NCA MEMBER REILY WAS IMPORTANT
TO ME BECAUSE LEE WANTED TO MEET PHILBRICK. SO I LISTENED CAREFULLY
ABOUT PHILBRICK, WHICH HELPED ME REMEMBER THE REST OF THE CONVERSATION...
QUESTIONS CAN BE WORDED IN A WAY THAT MAKES A DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION
OF THE REALITY. I NEVER 'KNEW' PHLLIPS. I NEVER 'KNEW' BISHOP.==
2) Did she tell you that Lee Oswald knew Phillips by his real name, *and* his alias?
==AGAIN, AND I SAY THE SAME THING IN THE DOCUMENTARY, LEE NEVER KNEW, WHEN
HE MET BISHP, THAT HE WAS SPEAKING TO PHILLIPS. HE FIGURED IT OUT LATER. THIS
LOADED QUESTION MAKES IT SEEM THAT I WAS SAYING LEE KNEW BOTH NAMES, AS IF,
PERHAPS, FOR A LONG TIME...THAT'S NOT WHAT I SAID .==
3) If Phillips was involved in a covert operation that involved LHO, do you think
he'd tell him BOTH his alias and his real name?
==OF COURSE NOT. AND I NEVER SAID PHILLIPS TOLD LEE ANY SUCH THING. BUT THE
FACT THAT DAVID ATLEE PHILLPS' RESIDENCE WAS ACTUALLY IN FORT WORTH, VERY
CLOSE TO DALLAS, LEE WAS ABLE TO HUNT IT DOWN IN THE END.
AND THAT IS WHY, IN HIS LAST CALLS --AND ESPECIALLY THE VERY LAST CALL -- LEE
MADE A POINT, AS IT SAYS CLEARLY IN TMWKK DOCUMENTARY, THAT AT LAST HE HAD
FIGURED OUT WHO HIS HANDLER WAS--AT LAST.
IT IS DISCONCERTING THAT LIFTON CREATED THE IMPRESSION OF ASSERTIONS THAT
NEVER EXISTED, THAT I NEVER MADE, FOR YOU TO SEE FOR YOURSELF. FORTUNATELY,
INTELLIGENT READERS HERE CAN DISCERN THE TRUE MEANING.==
4) IF Phillips was involved in a covert operation, do you think he'd have anything
whatsoever to do with employees at Reily Coffee-again for any reason;
but, just for the sake of argument, let's say he did.
==IN HIS HUBRIS, MR.LIFTON MADE A FALSE ASSUMPTION THAT THESE WERE ORDINARY
EMPLOYEES. HE FAILED TO OBAIN MORE INFORMATION. MR. MONAGHAN WAS THE VICE
PRESIDENT, A FORMER FBI MAN. GERRY HEMMING IS ON RECORD SAYING MR. REILY OF
THE REILY COFFEE COMPANY HAD WORKED FOR THE CIA FOR YEARS. PHILLIPS IS ON
RECORD VISITING NEW ORLEANS AND BEING INVOLVED WITH INCA FUNDRAISING
OPERATIONS. REILY WAS A CHARTER MEMBER OF INCA AND ONE OF INCA'S MOST
GENEROUS DONORS. LIFTON'S QUESTIONS HAVE BEEN CIRCULATING--BASED ON A
FALSE PREMISE--CONFUSING GOOD RESEARCHERS FOR YEARS. WHY DID HE DO THIS?==
Do you believe that he'd be using both his real name AND his alias?
==OF COURSE NOT. STRETCH THE TRUTH ENOUGH AND I CAN SAY DAVID LIFTON IS
A LIPTON TEA BAG.==
If so, this has got to be one of the most insecure operations in intelligence history:
==NOW HE MAKES A SPIEL, BASED ON NOTHING==
not only does the low level agent, supposedly working directly under the CIA' Chief of
the Western Hemisphere Division know both his names,
==SPECIOUS, UNTRUE, UNINFORMED, AND TWISTING THE FACTS HE WAS GIVEN==
but so does his girlfriend! And, in addition, so do numerous others at the coffee company
where he is employed, oiling the machinery!
==NUMEROUS OTHERS? REILY'S SECRETARY AND MY BOSS, THE VICE PRESIDENT. AT
ANY TIME, MR. LIPTON, ER, MR. LIFTON, COULD HAVE COME TO CORRECT CONCLUSIONS,
HAD HE NOT PRE-DECIDED TO TRASH ME AS A WITNESS, POSSIBLY SO HIS BOOK WOULD
NOT HAVE TO INCLUDE ANYTHING ABOUT ME IN HIS BIOGRAPHY ABOUT OSWALD. I HAD
ALLOWED HIM TO INTERVIEW ME BECAUSE I'D HOPED TO HELP HIS BOOK BECOME A
SUCCESS WITH NEW INFORMATION ABOUT A NEW WITNESS. LIFTON DECIDED TO DO A
NUMBER ON ME, INSTEAD.==
[quote name='Barb Junkkarinen' date='Mar 15 2010, 11:34 PM' post='186991']
[quote name='James H. Fetzer' post='186935' date='Mar 15 2010, 04:15 PM']
(2) JUDYTH TALKES ABOUT DAVID ATLEE PHILLIPS
LEE TOLD ME THAT DAVID ATLEE PHILLIPS WAS THE ONE WHO MASTERMINDED MUCH OF THE
ASSASSINATION OF JOHN F. KENNEDY. HE TOLD ME THAT PHILLIPS AND OTHERS WOULD BE PRESENT
TO WATCH JFK GO DOWN. ADDITIONAL DETAILS ARE IN THE BOOK.[/quote]
An excerpt from David Lifton's conversation with Judyth.
On the question of whether Lee every met with David Atlee Phillips and whether
Lee knew Phillips by his real name; and the question of whether other employees
at Reily knew Phillips by either or both names ("Bishop" or Phillips), here's what
Judyth told me on March 4, 2000:
QUOTE ON:
JVB: What I simply want to do. . I want you to know that [Oswald] is an
innocent man; this is a man who had a chance to get out of this thing, and
he stuck it out. OK? He stuck it out. Of course, he wanted to get out
alive, and all that, but that is not the point, but he, [starts to get upset] he
knew that; [pause, starts to cry--dsl] he knew, we knew things were really
bad when Phillips didn't show up.
He told me, [recovers; now sounds cheerful-DSL] listen -I didn't know
what David Atlee Phillips name was until our last phone conversation,
or maybe a couple before that. I can't remember. But he told me, to
NEVER forget his name. He told me, "never forget his name."
DSL: How did he know his name, by the way?
JVB: Oh, he met him. But, listen, I'd overheard, we'd overheard, I'd
overheard his name before, over at Reily's. They talked about a guy
named Bishop, and [someone] said, 'That's Phillips", and so I had an
idea who that was.
This raises obvious questions - and here are the questions David had for Martin Shackelford:
QUESTIONS FOR MARTIN SHACKELFORD:
1) Did Judyth tell you, as she did me, that she knew Phillips by his real name,
*and* by his alias?
2) Did she tell you that Lee Oswald knew Phillips by his real name, *and* his
alias??
3) If Phillips was involved in a covert operation that involved LHO, do you think
he'd tell him BOTH his alias and his real name?
4) IF Phillips was involved in a covert operation, do you think he'd have
anything whatsoever to do with employees at Reily Coffee-again for any reason;
but, just for the sake of argument, let's say he did.
Do you believe that he'd be using both his real name AND his alias? If so, this
has got to be one of the most insecure operations in intelligence history: not only
does the low level agent, supposedly working directly under the CIA' Chief of
the Western Hemisphere Division know both his names, but so does his
girlfriend! And, in addition, so do numerous others at the coffee company where
he is employed, oiling the machinery!
Indeed, David's last comment sums it up rather well, imo.
Quote:(3) JUDYTH TALKS ABOUT JAMES FILESIt is no mystery how anyone would know that information. It is in Oswald's autopsy report.
IT GETS SO TOUGH, BEING A WITNESS. YOU MAKE ENEMIES BECAUSE YOUR TESTIMONY DOESN'T FIT
JIMMY SAID ONE THING CORRECT, SO I BELIEVE HE MET LEE OSWALD BUT IS NOT TELLING
EVERYTHING AS IT HAPPENED, OR HE HEARD IT FROM SOMEBODY WHO MET LEE. LEE HAD
A TINY SCAR NOBODY NOTICES ON HIS LIP. WIM ASKED ME HOW LEE GOT THE SCAR AND
I TOLD HIM, IN THE MARINES DURING BOOT CAMP, AND EXPLAINED THE INCIDENT.
NOW, FILES KNEW IT, TOO, AND I CANNOT EXPLAIN HOW HE DID.
Midline, upper lip, terminating at the vermillion margin is a 1/4 inch pale scar.
NOTE: The vermillion is where the pink lip tissue and the skin meet.
Barb :-)
[/quote]