23-03-2010, 08:30 PM
As opposed to the question of whether Judyth had been banned from Rich's forum, Kathy Collins raises a much more interesting question in this post.
JUDYTH RESPONDS TO KATHY COLLINS:
GENERAL RESPONSE:
This lady 'skims the thread' but anticipates that her insulting and careless insertion of all kinds of nasty things about Lee Oswald will provoke a response. She has either (1) not bothered to see the banned documentary, THE LOVE AFFAIR -- meaning that she is a lightweight posting here in the thread (even though she reveals extra knowledge, underlined below, that shows she has closely studied the case). In fact, her supposed ignorance that prompted the series of questions is therefore a non sequitur or else (2) she has seen THE LOVE AFFAIR but pretends she has not, for most of the answers to her queries are in that documentary. Either way, Kathy reveals hostility against both Oswald and me and has inserted herself pretending not to know much about what is going on. I doubt this because, even though I am blocked from accessing messages on the Education Forum for some reason, and have to have them sent to me to read, I have seen her name as she has been reading the thread. I also see Barb's name reading the thread, I went to the EF about twelve times before giving up having a chance to read more than one or two of the many messages before I get an 'under maintenance' page, saying the site is down... But I always can see "1 member, 1 guest" for example, at the bottom, even when I could not enter to see messages.. And the member's name is given. And Kathy HAS been reading the thread at least twice when I have also been there, just like Barb.
Her mention of Oswald being on TWO RADIO "SHOWS" (sic) is something only researchers generally know about (They were radio programs, but the word 'show' is a subtle way to demean the events, rhetorically speaking)... Her message is laced with rhetoric that instills hostility and prejudice against Oswald and also against me, yet she obviously knows a lot more than ordinary people about the case or would not know he was "drinking a coke" and so on... My comments below are in caps.
SPECIFIC REPLIES:
"What did Oswald do to save Kennedy's life?"
SEE 'THE LOVE AFFAIR' AND RECOGNIZE THE FACT THAT HE TOLD ME HE WAS PART OF AN 'ABORT TEAM' WHERE HE WAS NOT IN CHARGE, BUT HAD TO TAKE ORDERS. I REPORTED THAT FACT TO JIM MARRS AND OTHER RESEARCHERS OVER A DECADE AGO.
"How stupid was Oswald?"
[NOTE: I think Kathy meant this in the ordinary sense of, "Just how dumb could he have been (under the circumstances)?", where Judyth instead took it to be a question about his intelligence quotient. But Kathy no doubt meant it rhetorically.]
HIS IQ WAS MEASURED AT 118, WHICH IS BRIGHT -- BUT HIS UNDER THE OLD-FASHIONED IQ TESTS THAT DID NOT TAKE DYSLEXIA INTO ACCOUNT. IN A MODERN IQ TEST, I ESTIMATE HIS IQ, CORRECTED FOR DYSLEXIA, WAS 135. THAT IQ IS CONGRUENT WITH HIS KNOWN FACILITY IN RUSSIAN AND WAS SUFFICIENTLY COMPATIBLE WITH MY OWN.
"The Presidential motorcade was going to pass where he worked -- didn't he find that suspicious?"
LEE OSWALD KNEW MORE ABOUT THE ROUTE THAN PEOPLE REALIZE. HE REPORTED A PORTION OF THE ROUTE TO ME, MENTIONING THAT IT WOULD BE MADE -- DELIBERATELY -- TO PASS THROUGH TURTLE CREEK AND MAKE A SHARP RIGHT, LESS THAN A BLOCK FROM 3525 TURTLE CREEK, THE TOWER WHERE MURCHISON, SR., AND MAYOR CABELL LIVED. I THEREFORE KNEW WHAT TO LOOK UP YEARS LATER -- AS LEE DESCRIBED THE 'TURN AT TURTLE CREEK'-- AS WHERE JFK'S ENEMIES MET -- AND FOUND OUT THE INFORMATION I NOW SHARE WITH ALL OF YOU, BELOW, INFORMATION THAT IS NEVER MENTIONED BY RESEARCHERS, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, IN 40 YEARS OF INQUIRIES INTO THE DALLAS MURDER. I HAD WANTED TO GET THIS INFORMATION INTO THE UNAUTHORIZED BOOK PUBLISHED (BEFORE I COULD SEE THE GALLEYS) BY THE FINE RESEARCHER, HARRISON E. LIVINGSTONE, A DIFFICULT MAN TO DEAL WITH, BUT ONE WHO REALIZED THAT MY INFORMATION WAS IMPORTANT ENOUGH FOR HIM TO PUBLISH MY BOOK. HE DID SO IN A FORM I COULD NOT AUTHORIZE. I BRING THIS UP BECAUSE LIVINGSTONE'S ENDORSEMENT OF ME IS ALMOST NEVER MENTIONED.
THE SITE OF A MEETING CALLED "THE TROPHY MEETING": 3525 TURTLE CREEK
Democrat William A. Blakey served two incomplete terms in the U.S. Senate from Texas (1957, 1961) and was succeeded in 1961 by another 3525 Turtle Creek resident John Tower, first Republican U.S. Senator from Texas (1961-85).
Earle Cabell, mayor of Dallas (1961-64) and U.S. Congressmen from Texas (1965-73) lived in the building...Oil magnate Clint Murchison Sr. maintained an apartment on the 5th floor of 3525 Turtle Creek. His son of the same name founded the Dallas Cowboys....
http://www.3525turtlecreek.org/HTML/notables.htm
THEY HAD THE ROUTE GO THROUGH THERE DELIBERATELY AND EVEN TOOK PHOTOS AS THE CAVALCADE TURNED THERE.
I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT THIS INFORMATION. THANK YOU, KATHY. GOING ON WITH HER STATEMENT:
"Handing out leaflets, doing 2 radio shows [i]about communism, etc. Didn't he realize covert agencies were painting him red? He was practically the only one in the TSBD who didn't go out and watch the President go by. Didn't he hear the shots?"[/i]
BRIEF REPLY:
"Handing out leaflets, doing 2 radio shows about communism, etc."
==AN INTERVIEW AND A 'DEBATE' VIA RADIO ABOUT CUBA AND CASTRO WERE PARTS OF HIS ANI-FPCC 'PAINT FPCC RED' CAMPAIGN, AS HE WAS ORDERED TO DO BY THE CIA==
"Didn't he realize covert agencies were painting him red?"
==YES==
"He was practically the only one in the TSBD who didn't go out and watch the President go by. Didn't he hear the shots?"
==HE FOLLOWED ORDERS==
"Now, what did he do to save Kennedy?"
==CHICAGO -- SEE ABRAHAM BOLDEN'S TESTIMONY IN DOUGLASS' EXEMPLARY BOOK, JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE: WHY HE DIED AND WHY IT MATTERS==
[NOTE: My blog about Bolden, http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010/01/ec...rview-with.html, also includes a two-hour interview with him on "The Real Deal", which is archived at http://radiofetzer.blogspot.com.]
"Stand there drinking a coke?"
==READ MY BOOK, KATHY. SEE THE DOCUMENTARY 'THE LOVE AFFAIR' WHEREIN NIGEL TURNER SQUEEZES IN A GREAT DEAL IN A FEW MINUTES. HE HAD OVER 24 HOURS OF GOOD FILM TO PICK FROM AND 38 HOURS OF PRIOR INTERVIEWS TO DOUBLE-CHECK EVERYTHING I SAID ON FILM. I PARTICIPATED WITHOUT REFERENCE TO A SINGLE NOTE OR EVEN A CALENDAR==
"If he really wanted to be a hero, why didn't he run in front of the limo, yelling, "They're going to kill you," and cover Kennedy's head? Of course the Secret Service would have killed him. But he did nothing to stop the shooting."
==ANSWER: WHY HE DIDN'T RUN OUT THERE AND YELL? -- MARINA. JUNE. RACHEL. ME. -- WE WOULD HAVE BEEN SLAUGHTERED. HE TOLD ME SO. == BESIDES, HE DIDN'T KNOW IF IT WOULD BE IN DEALEY PLAZA OR AT THE TRADE MART==HE DID TELL ME THAT HE CONSIDERED MAKING A WARNING SHOT, WHICH WOULD HAVE GOTTEN HIM KILLED.
BUT HE EXPECTED TO BE SHOT DEAD, HE TOLD ME, AND THEN A RIFLE WOULD BE PLACED BESIDE HIM OR IN HIS HANDS. HE HAD TOLD ME HE WAS BETTER OFF DEAD TO THE CIA ANYWAY BECAUSE THEY COULD NEVER FULLY TRUST HIM AFTER RETURNING ALIVE FROM THE USSR. HE MIGHT HAVE 'TURNED' WITH BRAINWASHING....EVEN NOW, HE'S ACCUSED OF BEING MKU'D, AND I AM, TOO. BUT WE WERE NOT MKU'D...
WHAT A POSITION LEE OSWALD WAS IN.
I WONDER WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF MR. TRULY, WHO HAD BEEN TOLD THAT LEE WORKED FOR THE FBI (AND SO LEE WAS THEREBY FREED UP TO DO A LOT OF OTHER THINGS, JUST AS AT REILY'S) HAD NOT STOPPED THE POLICEMAN WHO SHOVED A REVOLVER AT LEE WHILE HE WAS 'DRINKING THE COKE.
==NOTE: LEE TOLD ME HE WAS FREE TO ROAM AWAY FROM THE TSBD WHEN NECESSARY. AND INDEED, RECORDS SHOW THAT LEE'S HOURS WERE BEING PLACED ON HIS TIME CARD WHETHER HE WAS THERE OR NOT, JUST AS AT REILY'S... BECAUSE ON NOV. 22, LEE OSWALD'S TIME CARD WAS FILLED OUT FOR THE WHOLE DAY -- IT SAID OSWALD WORKED A FULL DAY -- EVEN THOUGH LEE HAD BEEN ARRESTED AT THE TEXAS THEATER HOURS EARLIER.
[quote name='Kathleen Collins' post='187518' date='Mar 23 2010, 02:53 AM']I think this is the longest thread ever held in John Simkin's forum. I am skimming it, so I apologize if this question has been asked already.
What did Oswald do to save Kennedy's life? How stupid was Oswald? The Presidential motorcade was going to pass where he worked -- didn't he find that suspicious? Handing out leaflets, doing 2 radio shows about communism, etc. Didn't he realize covert agencies were painting him red? He was practically the only one in the TSBD who didn't go out and watch the President go by. Didn't he hear the shots?
Now, what did he do to save Kennedy? Stand there drinking a coke? If he really wanted to be a hero, why didn't he run in front of the limo, yelling, "They're going to kill you," and cover Kennedy's head? Of course the Secret Service would have killed him. But he did nothing to stop the shooting.
Kathy C
[/quote]
JUDYTH RESPONDS TO KATHY COLLINS:
GENERAL RESPONSE:
This lady 'skims the thread' but anticipates that her insulting and careless insertion of all kinds of nasty things about Lee Oswald will provoke a response. She has either (1) not bothered to see the banned documentary, THE LOVE AFFAIR -- meaning that she is a lightweight posting here in the thread (even though she reveals extra knowledge, underlined below, that shows she has closely studied the case). In fact, her supposed ignorance that prompted the series of questions is therefore a non sequitur or else (2) she has seen THE LOVE AFFAIR but pretends she has not, for most of the answers to her queries are in that documentary. Either way, Kathy reveals hostility against both Oswald and me and has inserted herself pretending not to know much about what is going on. I doubt this because, even though I am blocked from accessing messages on the Education Forum for some reason, and have to have them sent to me to read, I have seen her name as she has been reading the thread. I also see Barb's name reading the thread, I went to the EF about twelve times before giving up having a chance to read more than one or two of the many messages before I get an 'under maintenance' page, saying the site is down... But I always can see "1 member, 1 guest" for example, at the bottom, even when I could not enter to see messages.. And the member's name is given. And Kathy HAS been reading the thread at least twice when I have also been there, just like Barb.
Her mention of Oswald being on TWO RADIO "SHOWS" (sic) is something only researchers generally know about (They were radio programs, but the word 'show' is a subtle way to demean the events, rhetorically speaking)... Her message is laced with rhetoric that instills hostility and prejudice against Oswald and also against me, yet she obviously knows a lot more than ordinary people about the case or would not know he was "drinking a coke" and so on... My comments below are in caps.
SPECIFIC REPLIES:
"What did Oswald do to save Kennedy's life?"
SEE 'THE LOVE AFFAIR' AND RECOGNIZE THE FACT THAT HE TOLD ME HE WAS PART OF AN 'ABORT TEAM' WHERE HE WAS NOT IN CHARGE, BUT HAD TO TAKE ORDERS. I REPORTED THAT FACT TO JIM MARRS AND OTHER RESEARCHERS OVER A DECADE AGO.
"How stupid was Oswald?"
[NOTE: I think Kathy meant this in the ordinary sense of, "Just how dumb could he have been (under the circumstances)?", where Judyth instead took it to be a question about his intelligence quotient. But Kathy no doubt meant it rhetorically.]
HIS IQ WAS MEASURED AT 118, WHICH IS BRIGHT -- BUT HIS UNDER THE OLD-FASHIONED IQ TESTS THAT DID NOT TAKE DYSLEXIA INTO ACCOUNT. IN A MODERN IQ TEST, I ESTIMATE HIS IQ, CORRECTED FOR DYSLEXIA, WAS 135. THAT IQ IS CONGRUENT WITH HIS KNOWN FACILITY IN RUSSIAN AND WAS SUFFICIENTLY COMPATIBLE WITH MY OWN.
"The Presidential motorcade was going to pass where he worked -- didn't he find that suspicious?"
LEE OSWALD KNEW MORE ABOUT THE ROUTE THAN PEOPLE REALIZE. HE REPORTED A PORTION OF THE ROUTE TO ME, MENTIONING THAT IT WOULD BE MADE -- DELIBERATELY -- TO PASS THROUGH TURTLE CREEK AND MAKE A SHARP RIGHT, LESS THAN A BLOCK FROM 3525 TURTLE CREEK, THE TOWER WHERE MURCHISON, SR., AND MAYOR CABELL LIVED. I THEREFORE KNEW WHAT TO LOOK UP YEARS LATER -- AS LEE DESCRIBED THE 'TURN AT TURTLE CREEK'-- AS WHERE JFK'S ENEMIES MET -- AND FOUND OUT THE INFORMATION I NOW SHARE WITH ALL OF YOU, BELOW, INFORMATION THAT IS NEVER MENTIONED BY RESEARCHERS, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, IN 40 YEARS OF INQUIRIES INTO THE DALLAS MURDER. I HAD WANTED TO GET THIS INFORMATION INTO THE UNAUTHORIZED BOOK PUBLISHED (BEFORE I COULD SEE THE GALLEYS) BY THE FINE RESEARCHER, HARRISON E. LIVINGSTONE, A DIFFICULT MAN TO DEAL WITH, BUT ONE WHO REALIZED THAT MY INFORMATION WAS IMPORTANT ENOUGH FOR HIM TO PUBLISH MY BOOK. HE DID SO IN A FORM I COULD NOT AUTHORIZE. I BRING THIS UP BECAUSE LIVINGSTONE'S ENDORSEMENT OF ME IS ALMOST NEVER MENTIONED.
THE SITE OF A MEETING CALLED "THE TROPHY MEETING": 3525 TURTLE CREEK
Democrat William A. Blakey served two incomplete terms in the U.S. Senate from Texas (1957, 1961) and was succeeded in 1961 by another 3525 Turtle Creek resident John Tower, first Republican U.S. Senator from Texas (1961-85).
Earle Cabell, mayor of Dallas (1961-64) and U.S. Congressmen from Texas (1965-73) lived in the building...Oil magnate Clint Murchison Sr. maintained an apartment on the 5th floor of 3525 Turtle Creek. His son of the same name founded the Dallas Cowboys....
http://www.3525turtlecreek.org/HTML/notables.htm
THEY HAD THE ROUTE GO THROUGH THERE DELIBERATELY AND EVEN TOOK PHOTOS AS THE CAVALCADE TURNED THERE.
I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT THIS INFORMATION. THANK YOU, KATHY. GOING ON WITH HER STATEMENT:
"Handing out leaflets, doing 2 radio shows [i]about communism, etc. Didn't he realize covert agencies were painting him red? He was practically the only one in the TSBD who didn't go out and watch the President go by. Didn't he hear the shots?"[/i]
BRIEF REPLY:
"Handing out leaflets, doing 2 radio shows about communism, etc."
==AN INTERVIEW AND A 'DEBATE' VIA RADIO ABOUT CUBA AND CASTRO WERE PARTS OF HIS ANI-FPCC 'PAINT FPCC RED' CAMPAIGN, AS HE WAS ORDERED TO DO BY THE CIA==
"Didn't he realize covert agencies were painting him red?"
==YES==
"He was practically the only one in the TSBD who didn't go out and watch the President go by. Didn't he hear the shots?"
==HE FOLLOWED ORDERS==
"Now, what did he do to save Kennedy?"
==CHICAGO -- SEE ABRAHAM BOLDEN'S TESTIMONY IN DOUGLASS' EXEMPLARY BOOK, JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE: WHY HE DIED AND WHY IT MATTERS==
[NOTE: My blog about Bolden, http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010/01/ec...rview-with.html, also includes a two-hour interview with him on "The Real Deal", which is archived at http://radiofetzer.blogspot.com.]
"Stand there drinking a coke?"
==READ MY BOOK, KATHY. SEE THE DOCUMENTARY 'THE LOVE AFFAIR' WHEREIN NIGEL TURNER SQUEEZES IN A GREAT DEAL IN A FEW MINUTES. HE HAD OVER 24 HOURS OF GOOD FILM TO PICK FROM AND 38 HOURS OF PRIOR INTERVIEWS TO DOUBLE-CHECK EVERYTHING I SAID ON FILM. I PARTICIPATED WITHOUT REFERENCE TO A SINGLE NOTE OR EVEN A CALENDAR==
"If he really wanted to be a hero, why didn't he run in front of the limo, yelling, "They're going to kill you," and cover Kennedy's head? Of course the Secret Service would have killed him. But he did nothing to stop the shooting."
==ANSWER: WHY HE DIDN'T RUN OUT THERE AND YELL? -- MARINA. JUNE. RACHEL. ME. -- WE WOULD HAVE BEEN SLAUGHTERED. HE TOLD ME SO. == BESIDES, HE DIDN'T KNOW IF IT WOULD BE IN DEALEY PLAZA OR AT THE TRADE MART==HE DID TELL ME THAT HE CONSIDERED MAKING A WARNING SHOT, WHICH WOULD HAVE GOTTEN HIM KILLED.
BUT HE EXPECTED TO BE SHOT DEAD, HE TOLD ME, AND THEN A RIFLE WOULD BE PLACED BESIDE HIM OR IN HIS HANDS. HE HAD TOLD ME HE WAS BETTER OFF DEAD TO THE CIA ANYWAY BECAUSE THEY COULD NEVER FULLY TRUST HIM AFTER RETURNING ALIVE FROM THE USSR. HE MIGHT HAVE 'TURNED' WITH BRAINWASHING....EVEN NOW, HE'S ACCUSED OF BEING MKU'D, AND I AM, TOO. BUT WE WERE NOT MKU'D...
WHAT A POSITION LEE OSWALD WAS IN.
I WONDER WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF MR. TRULY, WHO HAD BEEN TOLD THAT LEE WORKED FOR THE FBI (AND SO LEE WAS THEREBY FREED UP TO DO A LOT OF OTHER THINGS, JUST AS AT REILY'S) HAD NOT STOPPED THE POLICEMAN WHO SHOVED A REVOLVER AT LEE WHILE HE WAS 'DRINKING THE COKE.
==NOTE: LEE TOLD ME HE WAS FREE TO ROAM AWAY FROM THE TSBD WHEN NECESSARY. AND INDEED, RECORDS SHOW THAT LEE'S HOURS WERE BEING PLACED ON HIS TIME CARD WHETHER HE WAS THERE OR NOT, JUST AS AT REILY'S... BECAUSE ON NOV. 22, LEE OSWALD'S TIME CARD WAS FILLED OUT FOR THE WHOLE DAY -- IT SAID OSWALD WORKED A FULL DAY -- EVEN THOUGH LEE HAD BEEN ARRESTED AT THE TEXAS THEATER HOURS EARLIER.
[quote name='Kathleen Collins' post='187518' date='Mar 23 2010, 02:53 AM']I think this is the longest thread ever held in John Simkin's forum. I am skimming it, so I apologize if this question has been asked already.
Quote:So imagine how I feel when I read lies that Oswald wanted to kill JFK. The very opposite was the case: he risked his life to try to save him.
JVB
What did Oswald do to save Kennedy's life? How stupid was Oswald? The Presidential motorcade was going to pass where he worked -- didn't he find that suspicious? Handing out leaflets, doing 2 radio shows about communism, etc. Didn't he realize covert agencies were painting him red? He was practically the only one in the TSBD who didn't go out and watch the President go by. Didn't he hear the shots?
Now, what did he do to save Kennedy? Stand there drinking a coke? If he really wanted to be a hero, why didn't he run in front of the limo, yelling, "They're going to kill you," and cover Kennedy's head? Of course the Secret Service would have killed him. But he did nothing to stop the shooting.
Kathy C
[/quote]