Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

[James H. Fetzer]

JIM, HOWARD, AND JUDYTH COMMENT ON ROBERT HARRIS

If ever there were a contributor to this thread who does not deserve to be taken seriously, it is Robert Harris. Notice he has only joined the forum in the last two days. How could this guy be standing on the sidelines with his "dynamite" refutation of Judyth over more than 1,200 posts and not become involved before this? And I am quite certain that he has not even bothered to read them. This guy is as phony as they come. The gratuitous swipe at me over the Zapruder film is especially revealing, since the presentations he must be talking about are simply ones in which I show and discuss four different versions of the film which differ with respect to how much of the scene is presented in them, which is even supported by a mathematical analysis of their relative informational content. Anyone who would buy into the La Fontaine's feeble attempt to mislead the public about the identity of "the tramps" has discredited himself.

PLATZMAN COMMENTS ON ARMSTRONG AND HARRIS:

-- On Sat, 4/17/10, Howpl@aol.com <Howpl@aol.com> wrote:

Armstrong's little mistakes:

(1) Last week I wrote an e-mail saying that Mary Sherman died in 1967. I was soon corrected (she died in 1964) -- and then remembered that I'd made the same mistake before. Guess whose book I relied upon. Why, none other than Craig Roberts' and John Armstrong's JFK: The Dead Witnesses. Maybe that was Armstrong's mistake.

(2) John and Judyth crossed paths several years ago when she, through Martin Shackelford, corrected him on Oswald's New Orleans address. (She even took Martin and me to the spot and pointed out how the little sign with the address was obscured from view -- even today -- so that someone might easily get the address wrong.) Martin told me that Armstrong was not interested in Judyth. I'm not sure he even thanked her. That is one very focused researcher!

Harris again:

It's hard to believe that, after all these years, Robert Harris is still mired in the same muck. A muck of his own making yet. Anita/Anna is a mix-up in his mind only. Moreover, it represents no more that a millionth of a percent of all that Judyth has tirelessly given (or tried to give) researchers over the past decade. It is foolish in the extreme for anyone to be paying any attention to this "issue" in April of 2010. Plain ridiculous.

Here is the dirty little secret of the so-called research community. Many if not most of the "experts" believe they have all but closed this case when all they've done is closed their minds. An apt axiom: The fervor of true believers (and their imperviousness to reason or disconfirming data) correlates directly with the number of years they have consumed writing and then waiting for their (first or next) book to get (self-)published.

At the center of their so-called research is, sadly, a hard core of religious thinking. It was Mark Twain who said: "Man is the only animal that has the true religion -- several of them." This group is the Armstrong-is-God crowd. READ THE BOOK, but not too closely. Tea-party scholarship at its finest.

Howard

JUDYTH COMMENTS ON ROBERT HARRIS

Dear Dr. Fetzer:

JUST IN CASE ROBERT HARRIS SHOWS UP -- Martin Shackelford and Dr. Howard Plaztman BOTH tried to tell Mr. Harris that he got it wrong -- I TRIED to tell him he got it wrong -- he INSISTED he got it 'right'. ANITA IS WHAT I CALLED ANNETTE -- A WORKER AT REILY. I even have her photo.



She invited me to her wedding but I did not recall her last name or the name of her fiance, so I could not reply to Mr. Harris' question about her.

He misstated many things I said and persists to this day. Why do these people do that? When corrected, they retain their initial statements anyway. For years!

I never ever said I double-dated with a former classmate -- I expressed to Dr. Platzman my frustration with Harris for persisting and claiming I said this, and he would not admit he misunderstood.

Anita -- Annette -- I had called Annette 'Anita' as a pet name when we worked together at Reily's. We never were high school classmates. I was dismayed when he kept saying that.

Harris, reading from Lifton -- that I was a 'bored Louisiana houisewife" -- may have assumed I lived in Louisiana.

I said LEE AND I double-dated with ANNA--ANNA LEWIS--never Annette.

Which he mixed up with ANNETTE and would not let go of.

I told him of an incident on a plane, too, and produced flight records to back up our emergency landing at Hot Springs [from Washington, DC, where "60 Minutes" had sent me]. He assumed I made it all up. Since then, an important researcher also had a similar threat, and in fact, it helped him to endorse me, as he has done for some time.

Mr. Harris posts on McAdams' newsgroup. I expect him and David Lifton to come around and attack.

Martin and Howard will tell you that this person has absolutely refused to change his mind about what he says I said, even though I corrected him as soon as I learned he mixed up all the Annette's/Anita's/Anna's and Lewises! So if he shows up, I will let them know. Hope they are both well.

Note the many late clock-outs for Lee Oswald. Also note that Marina did not know for 2 weeks -- in one letter -- or as long as 6 weeks -- testifying -- that she knew Lee no longer worked at Reily. She had no idea what he was doing for weeks, in other words. He left in the morning and returned in the evening--and it wasn't at 4:00, as she told Garrison. He was usually home around 7:00 PM and sometimes later, as he often brought home groceries, too.

He had a fight with her once and walked out and was gone all night.

She said he went for walks. He sometimes visited me at my nearby apartment for several hours at that time, in July.

In case this comes up. I can provide you with some old comments that were previously written in rebuttal (see below). I will also provide information about Lee's background report, if that might come up.

FROM PLATZMAN TO HARRIS IN 2003:

From: Howard Platzman (howpl@aol.com)
Subject: Re: Shackelford JUST CAN'T STOP Lying about Robert Harris
View: Complete Thread (23 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Date: 2003-10-09 14:35:30 PST
reharris1@yahoo.com (Robert Harris) wrote in message news:<3f85656f.69498671@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...

> On 07 Oct 2003 07:21:36 GMT, Martin Shackelford
> <mshack@concentric.net> wrote:
>
> >The "newest account" is the same as the account she gave to Dr. Riehl in
> >1999--also the "earliest account."
> >Then, of course there is the "exclusive Robert Harris account." Sad, really.
>
> Martin,
>
> Judyth's claim is that Anna and Ron Lewis double dated with her and Oswald.
> Is that right?
>
> Robert Harris
>

I can't believe where this thread has gone?

First - Ron Lewis?!!! That name has not come up in conversation with Judyth for years. And when it came up, I brought it up and played devil's advocate to see if he could fit anywhere into the events.

Judyth rejected his story from the first as inconsistent with Lee's movements in August. I found something disarming about the poor schmo's "what's-going-on-here? story," and she said that MAYBE Lee knew him, but he sure never mentioned him to her, so at most he was a minor character. Ron Lewis had no relation to David Lewis, Anna's husband.

For what it's worth, a couple of years ago, I tried to contact Ron Lewis thru his co-author, who was listed in the white pages. This was a small town that apparently had two guys named "Lessie Coloma" in it, only I got the wrong one. This one said he had nothing to do with Ron Lewis and knew of no Lessie Coloma who might. I think maybe he was just ashamed of himself.

Second - I hate to say Martin's got the truth a bit twisted, but I have to. Anita was a co-worker at Reily's. She was going to marry her high-school sweetheart. She was not an old high school friend of Judyth's. Anna, on the other hand, was the double dater, and her husband was David Lewis.

Anna has nothing to do with Judyth's high school or with Florida. The basic point is that Judyth did find this witness, whether before you split or after. You have been claiming for three years that she has no witnesses. What gives you the right to claim that she still has no witnesses?

Robert, you have been corrected about this stuff over and over again.

Once again, if you have notes of a conversation in which Judyth says she double-dated with Anna Lewis, scan it for all to see. Liars wouldn't call your bluff. I'm calling it. (Yeah, I know you could fake it, but I'm hoping you are not that foolish.)

Howard

Richard Harris wrote:

Dr. Fetzer, Judyth contacted me in 1999, long before she was on television and even before most researchers had heard of her. After a number of email exchanges, in which she related her story (or that version of it), we spoke on the phone for about three hours.

At that time, she talked about double dating with Oswald, with an old high school friend and her fiance, who married her in August of that year. My response was, that this would be a great way to corroborate her affair with Oswald. What were their names? At that point, she was silent for a moment and then said she didn't remember his surname, nor did she have any interest in tracking down the girl's parents, nor did she want to look at the wedding announcements in the newspaper for August, the month in which she said they got married. This is from an email exchange, she and I had in 2002

1. You said you and LHO double dated with a friend from school and her
fiance, and that you saw her wedding announcement in the paper in August
of 1963. It should be fairly easy to find that woman, through a yearbook
or the newspaper. Have you done so and do you have her name yet?

2. You said people at Alba's garage saw you with Oswald there. Have you
figured out yet, which of them saw you? Did Mr. Alba himself, see the two
of you? If not, then who did?

3. You said that you and LHO were inseparable during your affair and that
you felt sorry for Marina because she was left alone at night, on numerous
occasions. But, Marina was asked, by the La Fontaines (in a totally
different context), if Lee was frequently gone at night, or even late
coming home. She replied that he was always there on time, and never
missing. (in New Orleans, only)

==Nonsense. He had 6:00 and 6:30 clock-outs from Reily's and even a 7:32 clock-out from Reily's. She was telling the WC he was home by 4:00! He did not get home until 6-8:00 at night on numerous occasions backed up merely from Reily records.==

Was Marina wrong about that? If not, then when did you and LHO have the
opportunity to see each other?

And why did you tell me that you monopolized his (non-working) hours?

As I said before, I still hope/wish your story is true.

But if it is not, then you are doing a grave disservice to this country
and to history. It is already almost impossible for serious researchers to
get anything published on the JFK case, which because of all the red
herrings and bogus theories, many editors equate with UFO tales and Big
Foot sightings.

She replied:

I did respond. I sent an answer through another person because I do not
have an email address for you. PLEASE simply send me an email with a
current address. If this email arrives, I made one error; where it says
"Anita" it should say "Annette" and is not to be confused with "Anna," as
these people are two different witnesses. I am still recovering from an
auto crash and do not look at the ne3wsgroup every day by any means.

Of course, she never could come up with the name of her "best friend" in high school, who was replaced by Anna Lewis as the woman, who with her husband, David Lewis, was supposed to have double dated with them. David Lewis, is the same guy who had a lot of stories to tell about Oswald, but never once, mentioned any double dates, or any kind of social activities with Oswald.

==because there was no 'friend from high school--it is all in his head!==

In her private emails to me, she totally changed her story about feeling sorry for poor lonely Marina, which she mentioned several times in our phone conversation. In version II, their flaming romance was carried on during daylight hours only, apparently sneaking out from work.

And of course, she never could come up with anyone who saw her at Alba's garage.

==Martin Shackelford got a report from a New Orleans investigator about that.==

And one more thing.

Judyth had always spent a lot of time, following the JFK usenet groups. In 2005, I wrote a piece on Oswald and his obsession with "I led three lives", and Herbert Philbrick's influence on him.

When did she first start talking about Philbrick and IL3L's?

==1999==

Judyth also told me during that phone conversation that some sinister character stole the hard drive from her computer. And she told me a story about being on a plane in which they had to make an emergency landing because a passenger had a heart attack. Sitting next to her, was a men-in-black type who said, "If we can do that to him, we can do that to you.".

FWIW, I have no respect at all, for most of the people who have been actively attacking her, in alt.assassination.jfk. And I have no doubt at all, that David Ferrie was involved in setting up the assassination. But Judyth is totally phony. Maybe she doesn't even realize what she is doing. My sense was, when I spoke with her, that this woman has some very serious mental and emotional issues. But her story is just not true. I wish it was, because a legitimate Oswald girlfriend might have given us a lot of important answers.

Robert Harris

[quote name='Robert Harris' post='189872' date='Apr 17 2010, 07:31 AM']
[quote name='James H. Fetzer' post='189856' date='Apr 17 2010, 12:46 AM']Robert,

Judyth has been subjected to a lot of abuse and has not always handled situations most effectively. She has often not been sure whether or not to provide additional information to those challenging her, especially in a case where it might put her friend on the spot without asking in advance. But she has been very responsive here. Her friend's name is Anna Lewis and a video of her talking about their double-dating may be found archived on my blog, including "The Love Affair", especially, at http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010/03/14...udyth-vary.html The LaFontaine's OSWALD TALKED is such rubbish I can't believe anyone would take it seriously, which, I am sorry to say, raises questions in my mind about your competence. I think you need to get up-to-speed on Ed Haslam, DR. MARY'S MONKEY, http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010/04/ed...rys-monkey.html . He (Ed Haslam) was on "Coast to Coast" for four hours last night. I suggest you check it out before drawing such damning conclusions. I have had a huge amount of contact with Judyth in the meanwhile and I am quite sure that she is "the real deal".

Jim[/quote]

Dr. Fetzer, I am disappointed to learn that you are exactly what I expected after watching one or two of your presentations, on the Zapruder film, which I hope we can discuss in detail in another thread.

Judy didn't just handle a "situation" poorly. She lied to me and then significantly changed her story after she learned that her early versions didn't hold up. And she was either suffering from severe paranoia when she made up some very silly stories, or she thought I was.

After all these years, neither you nor anyone else has been able to confirm her story about an affair with Oswald, for the very obvious reason that it never happened.

As for your smear against the La Fontaines, I noticed that you support that argument every bit as well as you do this fairy tale about Judyth. The La Fontaines made some enormously important contributions, including their debunking of the "three tramps" myth, and their absolute proof that Oswald had been an informant for the FBI.

Their analysis was solidly supported by a great deal of facts and documented evidence. If you could show us 1/10th that much evidence in support of Judyth, there would be nothing left to argue about.

Robert Harris
[/quote]