26-04-2010, 12:38 AM
Bernice,
You are a dear and I have great affection for you. That cannot be said of many others who are piling on at this late stage in the evolution of this forum. I have done my best to present Judyth's case because I believe in her. There is no way I can transfer the reasoning ability and evaluation of the evidence that has led me to my position, but I am convinced both logically and psychologically that she is genuine. I have seen her anguish over misrepresentations of her position and take the time to correct me when I was mistaken about some point, even when it was not flattering to her. If this woman is not "the real deal", then I have no understanding of human nature. I have done my best to explain the reasons why I, Nigel Turner, Ed Haslam, Jim Marrs, Howard Platzman, "60 Minutes", Wim Dankbaar, and many others, including Dean Hartwell, Pamela McElwain-Brown, Karl Kinaski, and Linda Minor, have come to believe in her. We are a diverse group but not a gullible group. There have been so many cheap shots taken here since I tried to bring this thread to an end several hundred posts ago--around post #1,200!--but it hasn't happened. With Judyth's book about to appear, which will provide new documents, records, and other data, I can't imagine any good reason to continue with this thread. It has long since become the longest in the forum's history. I have appreciated those who have taken the subject seriously, especially Michael Hogan, who has been the most astute among those who are probing for more. As for most of the rest, their adamant unwillingness to consider new evidence and adjust their degrees of belief accordingly has been stunning. The method of tenacity clearly prevails on this thread, which is unfortunate but has something to do with the threat that Judyth Vary Bakes poses to what the agency is willing for the pubic to learn, not only about Lee H. Oswald, the alleged assassin, but about cancer research and the development of a bio-weapon, which appears to be so secret that, even when the CIA decides to release its "family jewels", the first--which was dated around the time of these developments in New Orleans--had been redacted. There were eight, but only the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth were released to the public. Think about it. Judyth's story has the potential to broaden awareness of some of the deepest secrets in the history of the CIA! That is simply astounding and is no doubt related to its potential to further reveal a host of issues about covert ops in New Orleans, the infected polio vaccine that was mandated for 100,000,000 children even though NIH knew better, and the development of cancer as a bio weapon! One day some of those who were here may well come realize that they were wrong in opposing Judyth. But that will almost certainly require the passage of time and learning more about her. ME & LEE affords the perfect opportunity! Good luck! And enjoy!
Jim
[quote name='Bernice Moore' post='190488' date='Apr 22 2010, 09:41 PM']I have great respect for you Dr.Jim as well as your work that you provide so willingly, therefore also your decisions and beliefs, you have found within yourself to believe that all Judith has stated and what documents etc that she has provided to you as being sufficient to draw your conclusion that she is the real deal as you have mentioned..and that is your prerogative and as I say i respect such...what you have posted for us and she had supplied to you, we, many, have seen in the past except for the one photo which was new to me, they were posted at Rich's as well as at the lancer forums in the past, and i believe they are still there within RICH'S archives, they were some months back,,..a part of me wishes he had been here during this long stressful thread , but then another does not ,as i know he would have been extremely upset at some of what has been said and has occurred, '' and as JFK said
For in the final analysis, our most basic common link, is that we all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's futures, and we are all mortal.
we are all mortal, therefore we all at times make mistakes, move too quickly, act before contemplating and so on,
John F. Kennedy, Speech at The American University, Washington, D.C., June 10, 1963
Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. And man can be as big as he wants. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings.
John F. Kennedy, speech at The American University, Washington, D.C., June 10, 1963
and Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man but we lost him before he had the chance to teach us how.and we still stumble each and every day.... and my favourite ''
So, let us not be blind to our differences - but let us also direct attention to our common interests and to the means by which those differences can be resolved.
John F. Kennedy
we human beings are AT most times our own worse enemies, not just within the research as i have thought at times. We fly off the handle, before we think, my old granny used to say to me as well as my bro, if you cannot say anything nice, do not say anything, well our mother picked it up and for years that was the daily reminder,as we left for school, as ''Mr dobs in the movie 'Harvey'' states, words to the effect, '' in this world you can be oh so smart or oh so pleasant, he then says well I ,,.was oh so smart for many years, and i recommend being oh so pleasant''...all we must do, I believe is put others before ourselves, their thoughts and feelings...IMO...
As i believe and hope i made clear i have read Ed's books,and each post here, as well as studying and reading some thousands of posts during the 12 years or so at the alts in following as the information,as it was made available and her previous set of books and have her new one on order,the DVDs and Cd's that were made available were obtained , as well as many others we took the time to peruse as much as possible and also went to the expense of having all, plus the black op radio DVD.. i did find them all of great interest, and informative but also within Ed's and Judyth's books I was disappointed as many others were that there was not the documented proof that was available to him at that time and he chose not to supply,nor the documentation she had promised, i must now being human wonder if ED ever did try or make any effort to.find the proof, .perhaps as Kathy has supplied the link to the N.O city archives it is not too late.someone may be able to bring forth the information needed..the proof is in the pudding as they say,and these are his books and his puddings to prove..i cannot blame anyone for not believing what they cannot see in the way of documentation, we as researchers have been taught and inundated very early on, that that is a must, the final piece for whatever is to be accepted as a given, he and she as well as others are very aware of that fact..as far as JudYth being in N.O AT THE TIME OF LHO THAT WAS ACCEPTED AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN AS FAR AS I KNOW, THAT SHE WAS AN EXTREMELY GIFTED YOUNG WOMAN IN SCIENCE also is a given..and that they SHE AND LHO worked at REILLYS AT THE SAME TIME ALSO, AND IMO THAT SHE HAS PROVEN , BUT NO MORE AND NO LESS...NEITHER HAS ED HASLAM..I WISH SHE AND HE HAD BEEN ABLE TO SUPPLY THE DOCUMENTATION FOR ALL THE REST BUT THAT WAS NOT TO BE, perhaps at some date in the future he will be able to provide further.SO THEREFORE WE AS INDIVIDUALS MUST DECIDE FOR OURSELVES EXACTLY HOW MUCH WE WILL BELIEVE HONESTLY IN WHAT HAS BEEN STATED AS TRUTH, SOME APPARENTLY WILL,ACCEPT IT AS BEING ENOUGH, SOME WILL NOT, THAT IS VERY HUMAN. AND To each their own, as it is and should be..AFTER STUDYING AND READING ALL THAT I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO the JFK-assassination-related parts of her account simply do not pass the smell test for me. that is my decision I am very hopeful as you have made mention of perhaps in the future old friendships will be able to be mended and put again on a solid footing..i realized many pages ago how stressful this all was for you and that many were feeling the stress of this terribly contentious, long thread,
and for all who have worked together for so long and or perhaps quietly supporting whom they consider their peers within the JFK research studies such as Dean and others who admire you so, as well as others who believe in your work, that you have so willingly shared and made available, even some who disagree with your findings as well, were feeling the stress of this terrible up heaving long thread,and there are as we know a relative few i believe, who were happy to see such, too bad, their most earnest wishes will not take place and the group as called at times by others will not and has not disintegrated within harsh meaningless words..
“I realized many pages ago how stressful this must be for you, and that others must be feeling stressed also by this terribly contentious, long thread, such as Dean who admires you, and others who believe in the work that you have so willingly made available to others. Some who disagree with your statements must also have felt much stress. Of course, no doubt others were happy to see harsh words used. JFK told us that we are all human, which we certainly are, in spades. The old phrase comes to mind: to err is human, to forgive devine.
---
..I THANK YOU KIND SIR FOR YOUR REPLY AND YOUR THOUGHTFULNESS THAT YOU HAVE EXPRESSED WITHIN..AND WISH YOU AND YOURS ALL THE VERY BEST.
NOW, IF POSSIBLE, FOR HEAVEN’S SAKE,CAN WE ALL GET BACK TO THE BUSINESS OF RESEARCH
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
THE PLAY PERHAPS HAS ENDED AND ALL SHOULD PERHAPS TAKE A BREAK AND A REST, AND THEN CARRY ON AND GET BACK TO THEIR WORK AND ALLOW THIS THREAD TO QUIETLY REST, HOPEFULLY, THE SHOW IS OVER, ME THINKS MORE THAN ENOUGH HAS BEEN SAID
I CANNOT THINK OF ANYTHING FURTHER THAT SHOULD BE POSTED HERE
PERHAPS WE ALL COULD, LET THE SLEEPING RESEARCHERS LIE PLEASE...IF ANYONE MUST SAY ANYTHING FURTHER RELATED TO THE INFORMATION AND OR THE JUDY TH STUDIES,THAT IS WORTHY OF SUCH,, PERHAPS YOU COULD START A NEW THREAD ON A NEW NON-CONTROVERSIAL TOPIC.
THANK YOU KINDLY FOR ALL THAT YOU DO..AS WELL AS TO EACH AND EVERYONE OF YOU ON THIS FORUM.FOR YOUR WORK AND CONTRIBUTIONS.IT TAKES A VILLAGE...
------
. THANK YOU ALL..KINDLY AND TAKE GOOD CARE...PS AND A THANK YOU TO JOHN SIMKIN FOR ALLOWING THIS LONG DEBATE...PS... PLEASE EXCUSE AGAIN THE CAPS,IT WAS VERY EARLY IN THE DAY FOR ME WHEN I BEGAN TRYING TO COMPOSE THIS REPLY.. AGAIN VERY SORRY ABOUT THAT...B[/quote]
You are a dear and I have great affection for you. That cannot be said of many others who are piling on at this late stage in the evolution of this forum. I have done my best to present Judyth's case because I believe in her. There is no way I can transfer the reasoning ability and evaluation of the evidence that has led me to my position, but I am convinced both logically and psychologically that she is genuine. I have seen her anguish over misrepresentations of her position and take the time to correct me when I was mistaken about some point, even when it was not flattering to her. If this woman is not "the real deal", then I have no understanding of human nature. I have done my best to explain the reasons why I, Nigel Turner, Ed Haslam, Jim Marrs, Howard Platzman, "60 Minutes", Wim Dankbaar, and many others, including Dean Hartwell, Pamela McElwain-Brown, Karl Kinaski, and Linda Minor, have come to believe in her. We are a diverse group but not a gullible group. There have been so many cheap shots taken here since I tried to bring this thread to an end several hundred posts ago--around post #1,200!--but it hasn't happened. With Judyth's book about to appear, which will provide new documents, records, and other data, I can't imagine any good reason to continue with this thread. It has long since become the longest in the forum's history. I have appreciated those who have taken the subject seriously, especially Michael Hogan, who has been the most astute among those who are probing for more. As for most of the rest, their adamant unwillingness to consider new evidence and adjust their degrees of belief accordingly has been stunning. The method of tenacity clearly prevails on this thread, which is unfortunate but has something to do with the threat that Judyth Vary Bakes poses to what the agency is willing for the pubic to learn, not only about Lee H. Oswald, the alleged assassin, but about cancer research and the development of a bio-weapon, which appears to be so secret that, even when the CIA decides to release its "family jewels", the first--which was dated around the time of these developments in New Orleans--had been redacted. There were eight, but only the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth were released to the public. Think about it. Judyth's story has the potential to broaden awareness of some of the deepest secrets in the history of the CIA! That is simply astounding and is no doubt related to its potential to further reveal a host of issues about covert ops in New Orleans, the infected polio vaccine that was mandated for 100,000,000 children even though NIH knew better, and the development of cancer as a bio weapon! One day some of those who were here may well come realize that they were wrong in opposing Judyth. But that will almost certainly require the passage of time and learning more about her. ME & LEE affords the perfect opportunity! Good luck! And enjoy!
Jim
[quote name='Bernice Moore' post='190488' date='Apr 22 2010, 09:41 PM']I have great respect for you Dr.Jim as well as your work that you provide so willingly, therefore also your decisions and beliefs, you have found within yourself to believe that all Judith has stated and what documents etc that she has provided to you as being sufficient to draw your conclusion that she is the real deal as you have mentioned..and that is your prerogative and as I say i respect such...what you have posted for us and she had supplied to you, we, many, have seen in the past except for the one photo which was new to me, they were posted at Rich's as well as at the lancer forums in the past, and i believe they are still there within RICH'S archives, they were some months back,,..a part of me wishes he had been here during this long stressful thread , but then another does not ,as i know he would have been extremely upset at some of what has been said and has occurred, '' and as JFK said
For in the final analysis, our most basic common link, is that we all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's futures, and we are all mortal.
we are all mortal, therefore we all at times make mistakes, move too quickly, act before contemplating and so on,
John F. Kennedy, Speech at The American University, Washington, D.C., June 10, 1963
Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. And man can be as big as he wants. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings.
John F. Kennedy, speech at The American University, Washington, D.C., June 10, 1963
and Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man but we lost him before he had the chance to teach us how.and we still stumble each and every day.... and my favourite ''
So, let us not be blind to our differences - but let us also direct attention to our common interests and to the means by which those differences can be resolved.
John F. Kennedy
we human beings are AT most times our own worse enemies, not just within the research as i have thought at times. We fly off the handle, before we think, my old granny used to say to me as well as my bro, if you cannot say anything nice, do not say anything, well our mother picked it up and for years that was the daily reminder,as we left for school, as ''Mr dobs in the movie 'Harvey'' states, words to the effect, '' in this world you can be oh so smart or oh so pleasant, he then says well I ,,.was oh so smart for many years, and i recommend being oh so pleasant''...all we must do, I believe is put others before ourselves, their thoughts and feelings...IMO...
As i believe and hope i made clear i have read Ed's books,and each post here, as well as studying and reading some thousands of posts during the 12 years or so at the alts in following as the information,as it was made available and her previous set of books and have her new one on order,the DVDs and Cd's that were made available were obtained , as well as many others we took the time to peruse as much as possible and also went to the expense of having all, plus the black op radio DVD.. i did find them all of great interest, and informative but also within Ed's and Judyth's books I was disappointed as many others were that there was not the documented proof that was available to him at that time and he chose not to supply,nor the documentation she had promised, i must now being human wonder if ED ever did try or make any effort to.find the proof, .perhaps as Kathy has supplied the link to the N.O city archives it is not too late.someone may be able to bring forth the information needed..the proof is in the pudding as they say,and these are his books and his puddings to prove..i cannot blame anyone for not believing what they cannot see in the way of documentation, we as researchers have been taught and inundated very early on, that that is a must, the final piece for whatever is to be accepted as a given, he and she as well as others are very aware of that fact..as far as JudYth being in N.O AT THE TIME OF LHO THAT WAS ACCEPTED AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN AS FAR AS I KNOW, THAT SHE WAS AN EXTREMELY GIFTED YOUNG WOMAN IN SCIENCE also is a given..and that they SHE AND LHO worked at REILLYS AT THE SAME TIME ALSO, AND IMO THAT SHE HAS PROVEN , BUT NO MORE AND NO LESS...NEITHER HAS ED HASLAM..I WISH SHE AND HE HAD BEEN ABLE TO SUPPLY THE DOCUMENTATION FOR ALL THE REST BUT THAT WAS NOT TO BE, perhaps at some date in the future he will be able to provide further.SO THEREFORE WE AS INDIVIDUALS MUST DECIDE FOR OURSELVES EXACTLY HOW MUCH WE WILL BELIEVE HONESTLY IN WHAT HAS BEEN STATED AS TRUTH, SOME APPARENTLY WILL,ACCEPT IT AS BEING ENOUGH, SOME WILL NOT, THAT IS VERY HUMAN. AND To each their own, as it is and should be..AFTER STUDYING AND READING ALL THAT I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO the JFK-assassination-related parts of her account simply do not pass the smell test for me. that is my decision I am very hopeful as you have made mention of perhaps in the future old friendships will be able to be mended and put again on a solid footing..i realized many pages ago how stressful this all was for you and that many were feeling the stress of this terribly contentious, long thread,
and for all who have worked together for so long and or perhaps quietly supporting whom they consider their peers within the JFK research studies such as Dean and others who admire you so, as well as others who believe in your work, that you have so willingly shared and made available, even some who disagree with your findings as well, were feeling the stress of this terrible up heaving long thread,and there are as we know a relative few i believe, who were happy to see such, too bad, their most earnest wishes will not take place and the group as called at times by others will not and has not disintegrated within harsh meaningless words..
“I realized many pages ago how stressful this must be for you, and that others must be feeling stressed also by this terribly contentious, long thread, such as Dean who admires you, and others who believe in the work that you have so willingly made available to others. Some who disagree with your statements must also have felt much stress. Of course, no doubt others were happy to see harsh words used. JFK told us that we are all human, which we certainly are, in spades. The old phrase comes to mind: to err is human, to forgive devine.
---
..I THANK YOU KIND SIR FOR YOUR REPLY AND YOUR THOUGHTFULNESS THAT YOU HAVE EXPRESSED WITHIN..AND WISH YOU AND YOURS ALL THE VERY BEST.
NOW, IF POSSIBLE, FOR HEAVEN’S SAKE,CAN WE ALL GET BACK TO THE BUSINESS OF RESEARCH
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
THE PLAY PERHAPS HAS ENDED AND ALL SHOULD PERHAPS TAKE A BREAK AND A REST, AND THEN CARRY ON AND GET BACK TO THEIR WORK AND ALLOW THIS THREAD TO QUIETLY REST, HOPEFULLY, THE SHOW IS OVER, ME THINKS MORE THAN ENOUGH HAS BEEN SAID
I CANNOT THINK OF ANYTHING FURTHER THAT SHOULD BE POSTED HERE
PERHAPS WE ALL COULD, LET THE SLEEPING RESEARCHERS LIE PLEASE...IF ANYONE MUST SAY ANYTHING FURTHER RELATED TO THE INFORMATION AND OR THE JUDY TH STUDIES,THAT IS WORTHY OF SUCH,, PERHAPS YOU COULD START A NEW THREAD ON A NEW NON-CONTROVERSIAL TOPIC.
THANK YOU KINDLY FOR ALL THAT YOU DO..AS WELL AS TO EACH AND EVERYONE OF YOU ON THIS FORUM.FOR YOUR WORK AND CONTRIBUTIONS.IT TAKES A VILLAGE...
------
. THANK YOU ALL..KINDLY AND TAKE GOOD CARE...PS AND A THANK YOU TO JOHN SIMKIN FOR ALLOWING THIS LONG DEBATE...PS... PLEASE EXCUSE AGAIN THE CAPS,IT WAS VERY EARLY IN THE DAY FOR ME WHEN I BEGAN TRYING TO COMPOSE THIS REPLY.. AGAIN VERY SORRY ABOUT THAT...B[/quote]