27-04-2010, 02:57 AM
JIM ADDRESSES DAVID LIFTON ABOUT JUDYTH AND ABOUT HARVEY & LEE
You are entitled to your opinion, David, but you have not been studying this exchange and you have a motive that others besides me believe biases your attitude toward Judyth. I not only disagree with you about Judyth but am disappointed in you, not for your claims to fame about your earlier JFK research, which you richly deserve, but your unwillingness to share (what you claim to be) the basis for your skepticism about Judyth--the cassette tape of your one-hour plus conversation with her--which would enable me to confirm or disconfirm the claims you make based upon it, and your unwillingness to declare whether or not you believe in the fanciful story of HARVEY & LEE. If you denounce Judyth because you think she is a "fantasist", which I deny, then surely you should be even more outspoken about John Armstrong, since Judyth--on this forum, at least--had not made a significant impact on the research community, to judge by most of those who have posted here, while Armstrong appears to be something akin to a saint in the minds of many. If, as you maintain, "(you) simply cannot and will not stand idly by and watch someone mess up the historical record by bearing false witness", then your obligation to come clean about HARVEY & LEE must vastly outweigh your obligation to come clean about Judyth, if, as I believe, you do not support the "two Oswald's" theory that is presented there. Before you take too much credit for your moral stance regarding Judyth, where I am confident that you are wrong, you need to face up to your obligation to come clean about HARVEY & Lee, where you might even be right.
[quote name='David Lifton' post='190873' date='Apr 26 2010, 10:11 AM']Kevin Greelee:
I just read your post (#1450, dated 4/21/10) which quotes two of my posts (on the Alt.conspiracy discussion group, now available via Google) --some ten years ago (specifically, one on 10/26/2000, and the other on 12/31/2001). These posts were written at a time not only when my recollections of my March 4 2000, conversation with Judyth were fresh in my mind, but also at a time when I probably had a thick pile of notes and transcript material at hand.
As you correctly quote, Judyth made the following assertions in that March, 2000 phone call:
ITEM: That she co-wrote a science fiction story with Lee Oswald
ITEM: That, to beef up security for Kennedy, Lee fomented the Adlai Stevenson incident in Dallas
ITEM: That she, Judyth, had been offered $1 million by some tabloid for her story
ITEM: That despite her connection with all these events back in 1963, she never heard of the Garrison investigation at the time it was occurring (starting around Feb 1967)
ITEM: That at the "cancer lab" at Dave Ferrie¹s apartment, they "processed" 4,000 mice per month.
ITEM: That she arranged to check Lee out of work (and so that's why the time clock records, to be found in the 26 volumes)
appear as they do. (To anyone interested: There are certain clusters of times,which--IMHO-- Judyth explains by inserting herself into a "story" built around that data).
ITEM: That in connection with her alleged knowledge of Lee's visit to lecture at the Jesuit college at Spring Hill, Alabama,
that Robert Kennedy made a phone call there. (Yes, dear reader, blink twice if you must, but no, you're not imagining what I just wrote:
in the March, 2000 phone call, Judyth alleged that Robert Kennedy, the Attorney General of the United States,
called the Jesuit College at which Oswald spoke, and for some undefined reason, in connection with LHO's visit there).
ITEM: That she (and her co-workers in Florida) "knew" the
assassination was going to happen, and so prepared to watch it on TV.
As you noted, the links to the full text of my two posts were:
for October 26,2000:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspir...ca7348809?hl=en
and for Dec 31 2001
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspir...c1cb707a4?hl=en
When I clicked on the links you provided, they came right up on my screen.
* * *
Again, thanks for your post, and for the URL links that bring these two posts--from 10 years ago--right onto the computer screen. I had completely forgotten about these details, or that I had analyzed the conversation I had had with Judyth in such detail, and, finally, that I had written these posts. Its hard to believe that ten years have passed!
And of course you are right: with regard to my own skepticism about Judyth and her various claims, it is incorrect for anyone to focus just on the "Cancun" matter as "the reason" I rejected her entire story (as if that was the only problem!). As these posts amply demonstrate, it was much more than her claim that Lee Oswald said that they (she and Judyth) would/should meet in Cancun (the resort which did not then exist, aside from whether some primitive village by that name did exist) that lay behind my own conclusions about Judyth--i.e., that she lacked credibility, could not/should not be taken seriously, and my own conclusions that she was a fantasist.
One other point: I am not saying any of these things to hurt anyone individually. Its just that I have spent too much time on the Kennedy case connecting the dots, and attempting to do real research--and believe me, that is hard enough--and so when some intruder enters the picture, claiming that they were “on the grassy knoll,” or “in the autopsy room” or—in this instance—in the life of Lee Oswald, (who was, obviously, a major player in this affair, even if he was framed for a crime he did not commit) I must raise my hand and say “I object.” It is easy to argue about the evidence with someone with whose theories I disagree. But I simply cannot and will not stand idly by and watch someone mess up the historical record by bearing false witness.
DSL
4/26/10; 2 AM
Los Angeles, CA[/quote]
You are entitled to your opinion, David, but you have not been studying this exchange and you have a motive that others besides me believe biases your attitude toward Judyth. I not only disagree with you about Judyth but am disappointed in you, not for your claims to fame about your earlier JFK research, which you richly deserve, but your unwillingness to share (what you claim to be) the basis for your skepticism about Judyth--the cassette tape of your one-hour plus conversation with her--which would enable me to confirm or disconfirm the claims you make based upon it, and your unwillingness to declare whether or not you believe in the fanciful story of HARVEY & LEE. If you denounce Judyth because you think she is a "fantasist", which I deny, then surely you should be even more outspoken about John Armstrong, since Judyth--on this forum, at least--had not made a significant impact on the research community, to judge by most of those who have posted here, while Armstrong appears to be something akin to a saint in the minds of many. If, as you maintain, "(you) simply cannot and will not stand idly by and watch someone mess up the historical record by bearing false witness", then your obligation to come clean about HARVEY & LEE must vastly outweigh your obligation to come clean about Judyth, if, as I believe, you do not support the "two Oswald's" theory that is presented there. Before you take too much credit for your moral stance regarding Judyth, where I am confident that you are wrong, you need to face up to your obligation to come clean about HARVEY & Lee, where you might even be right.
[quote name='David Lifton' post='190873' date='Apr 26 2010, 10:11 AM']Kevin Greelee:
I just read your post (#1450, dated 4/21/10) which quotes two of my posts (on the Alt.conspiracy discussion group, now available via Google) --some ten years ago (specifically, one on 10/26/2000, and the other on 12/31/2001). These posts were written at a time not only when my recollections of my March 4 2000, conversation with Judyth were fresh in my mind, but also at a time when I probably had a thick pile of notes and transcript material at hand.
As you correctly quote, Judyth made the following assertions in that March, 2000 phone call:
ITEM: That she co-wrote a science fiction story with Lee Oswald
ITEM: That, to beef up security for Kennedy, Lee fomented the Adlai Stevenson incident in Dallas
ITEM: That she, Judyth, had been offered $1 million by some tabloid for her story
ITEM: That despite her connection with all these events back in 1963, she never heard of the Garrison investigation at the time it was occurring (starting around Feb 1967)
ITEM: That at the "cancer lab" at Dave Ferrie¹s apartment, they "processed" 4,000 mice per month.
ITEM: That she arranged to check Lee out of work (and so that's why the time clock records, to be found in the 26 volumes)
appear as they do. (To anyone interested: There are certain clusters of times,which--IMHO-- Judyth explains by inserting herself into a "story" built around that data).
ITEM: That in connection with her alleged knowledge of Lee's visit to lecture at the Jesuit college at Spring Hill, Alabama,
that Robert Kennedy made a phone call there. (Yes, dear reader, blink twice if you must, but no, you're not imagining what I just wrote:
in the March, 2000 phone call, Judyth alleged that Robert Kennedy, the Attorney General of the United States,
called the Jesuit College at which Oswald spoke, and for some undefined reason, in connection with LHO's visit there).
ITEM: That she (and her co-workers in Florida) "knew" the
assassination was going to happen, and so prepared to watch it on TV.
As you noted, the links to the full text of my two posts were:
for October 26,2000:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspir...ca7348809?hl=en
and for Dec 31 2001
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspir...c1cb707a4?hl=en
When I clicked on the links you provided, they came right up on my screen.
* * *
Again, thanks for your post, and for the URL links that bring these two posts--from 10 years ago--right onto the computer screen. I had completely forgotten about these details, or that I had analyzed the conversation I had had with Judyth in such detail, and, finally, that I had written these posts. Its hard to believe that ten years have passed!
And of course you are right: with regard to my own skepticism about Judyth and her various claims, it is incorrect for anyone to focus just on the "Cancun" matter as "the reason" I rejected her entire story (as if that was the only problem!). As these posts amply demonstrate, it was much more than her claim that Lee Oswald said that they (she and Judyth) would/should meet in Cancun (the resort which did not then exist, aside from whether some primitive village by that name did exist) that lay behind my own conclusions about Judyth--i.e., that she lacked credibility, could not/should not be taken seriously, and my own conclusions that she was a fantasist.
One other point: I am not saying any of these things to hurt anyone individually. Its just that I have spent too much time on the Kennedy case connecting the dots, and attempting to do real research--and believe me, that is hard enough--and so when some intruder enters the picture, claiming that they were “on the grassy knoll,” or “in the autopsy room” or—in this instance—in the life of Lee Oswald, (who was, obviously, a major player in this affair, even if he was framed for a crime he did not commit) I must raise my hand and say “I object.” It is easy to argue about the evidence with someone with whose theories I disagree. But I simply cannot and will not stand idly by and watch someone mess up the historical record by bearing false witness.
DSL
4/26/10; 2 AM
Los Angeles, CA[/quote]