06-02-2011, 12:27 AM
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2011, 12:44 AM by Bernice Moore.)
this was lee's next with the Sam Pate information he has passed along...b
Thanks for the dynamite information. The diameter of the pipe was different in 1963? I never heard that before. It's odd, I had heard that there were men in the sewers from a source - and I didn't believe it. To paraphrase - "men in uniform in the sewers.' It's weird how stuff that you hear can continually come around to haunt you. Very interesting B - thank you very much.
I recognize that this location was looked at some time ago - I heard some funny things about it recently, including from Sam Pate, and just started thinking about it again. Pate said that at some point he had a break-in, and had to contact the FBI. The FBI man told him that the name of the shooter in the area of the 'curb' was a man named 'Bruno.' Bruno had maffia connections and he was dead. He had used a silenced .45. Interesting - no? I didn't want to influence his 'curb' bit - but I still think that shooter was right there on the stairs.
Later, Sam told me he went to the Lucas B&B [which was next door to the Vegas club] after they captured Oswald. He said to the owner [Faithon Lucas] - 'well at least they got him.' The owner's response was, 'Well. They think they got him.' The Lucas B&B went on to create a string of restaurants in Texas - I've been to Pappasitos - I was reluctant to post that on the 'other forum.' They have a lot of money.
Here's the latest email I received from Pate - unedited. I also sent him the Moorman where you can see the guy on the stairs, as well as a photo of James Worrell. I let him know that some folks [me really] believe that he may have seen James Worrell running from around the front of the TSBD. I still think Worrell ran on to Erving, or whatever that street is named, where his Mother worked, hooked a right, made it back to Elm, saw the bus stuck in traffic, ran after it, boarded it, and then got off when he saw it wasn't moving. He got a transfer ticket, and then it was all cooked up against Oswald - who probably got a ride to the bus station. All just my thinking I guess.
- lee
Howdy there, have you been beseiged by people want to know something about the Kennedy Assassination?
Hello Sam!
Hope that his email finds all well with you. I am cleaning up my email inbox and came across your address. Just thought it might be wise for me to ask you a few questions, if you don't mind answering.
1. You never explained to me why KBOX fired you.
I was working the motorcade route from Love Field to the Trade Mart but when I got to Cedar Springs and Harwood I could see that I wouldn't be able to hopskotching around due to all of the one-way's and stop signs so instead of getting tied up, I went west on McKinney Ave. then to HiLine Road and Stemmons freeway and put the mobile unit the wrong way on stemmons so I could watch the oncoming traffic and then when the mobile unit was leaving Stemmons, I heard Sheriff Bill Decker say " gets some men up in thjose railroad yards and find out where those shots came from. I radioed Karl King that shots had been fired and the police dispatcher had called for parkland emergency. I was burning rubber down stemmons freeway at about 80 miles per hour and I was speeding toward the motorcade units. I continued on up stemmons racing towayd the motorcade. Kennedy's limo was a few feet from my left side of the car...and I could see a secret service man spreadeagled over the President and Jackie and connally fell to the presidents side of the car and the light blue lincoln convertable went almost over on the east side of the freeway. After they shot past me, I made a u-turn and went up Continental to where Continental and McKinney and Lamar St all came together. I sped to the back end of the Texas Schoolbook Depository, ( I thought it was called the Hertz building ) The Houston St was under construction and almost impassable but I just shot over all of it. A truck driver was finishing his lunch and he ran across the barricade so I could get in and start making some news reports. I was the only guy behind the Depository Bldg. and it was several minutes before any police officers came to the rear of the building. Oswald was running out of the front end of the Depository Bldg. and about half way down Houston he crossed Houston and was running like a rabbit and when he got to the corner of Houston and Pacific Ave. he disappeared. The guy whom was running from the building and then he was out of sight. A Friend was in the mobile unit and we both commented that it was really something if it was the shooter. A few minutes later the police department dispatchers described the runner was the same one we saw.
HARGIS! No, he didn't really say anything except that due to the rain we had allnight, the grassy knoll was slippers and that he had tried several times to run up the embankment but he kept on sliding up the hill. He finally used his hands and feet to make it up the knoll. I asked him if he heard any shots and he said yes, One was a loud report near the triple underpass. A second shot sounded like it came from up in the Depository Building area. Hargis was still up in the grassy knoll area. Then he heard a muffled sound near the curb area. That was where Bruno fired the 45 cal automatic with the silencer...Hargis said that one was like POOMP! The other weapons being fired were like a loud BANG!
2. Hargis ever mention anything peculiar to you about the stairs on the grassy knoll?
JUST WHAT HE HAD TOLD ME.
3. What ever happened to the radio stuff that you did on the scene in Dealey Plaza?
DICK MOORE FORMER NEWS DIRECTOR AT KBOX I UNDERSTAND THAT HE WAS TOLD BY JOHN BOX IN ST LOUIS TO GET THOSE REPORTS AND HIDE THEM A WAY.
4. Did anyone you know say anything odd about kids being around the plaza acting funny?
NO! THE REPORTS I MADE WERE IN THE NEWSROOM AND THEN THEY WERE NOT IN THERE. DICK GOT THEM. MY REPORTS WERE BY TWO-WAY AND TELEPHONE REPORTS. I ADVISED KARL KING ( HE IS DECEASED NOW ) I STAYED AT THE DEPOSITORY UNTIL I MOVED TO CITY HALL AFTER I HAD HEARD THAT OSWALD WAS CAUGHT. I CALLED BILL HAMPTON, MY SO-CALLED NEWS DIRECTOR THAT A POLICEMAN WAS SHOT AT 10TH AND PATTON, DO YOU WANT ME TO RUN OVER THERE REAL QUICK AND CHECK IT OUT? NO, STAY WERE YOU ARE HE SAID...THAT IS WHERE THE ACTION IS. ABOUT 15 MINUTES LATER ANOTHER REPORT CAME OVER A POLICE CAR RADIO AND THE PERSON SPEAKING WAS A CITIZEN SAYING THAT WE THINK THIS POLICE OFFICER IS DEAD....THE DISPATCHER SAID DON'T MAKE ANY OTHER REPORTS.. I TOLD HAMPTON, THE POLICE OFFICER IS DEAD....HAMPTON TOLD ME TO STAY WHERE I AM, IT IS THE HOT SPOT RIGHT NOW. AGAIN AS I WAS SITTING IN THE MOBILE UNIT THAT ON CH 2 AND IT SAID, OFFICERS ON THE MOTORCADE DUTY, GO TO THE OFFICE OF FEDERAL JUDGE SARAH T HUGHES AND MAKE AN ESCOURT TO LOVE FIELD AND SWEAR IN LBJ AS THE NEW PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. THERE WERE NUMEROUS REPORTS I HAD MADE. ABOUT 35 TO 40 OF THEM BECAUSE I WENT TO CITY HALL AND TALKED WITH SEVERAL DETECTIVES AND SPOKE FOR A MOMENT TO OSWALD. THERE JUST WASN'T ANYONE AT THE RADIO STATION THAT WAS INTERESTED. PERHAPS IT WAS BEING A CATHOLIC. THERE WAS HARDLY ANYONE IN THE RADIO STATION. 1FINALLY WENT BY THE LUCAS B&B AND HAD A SANDWICH. I HAD BEEN UP SINCE 4:OO AM BECAUSE I HAD TO DO TRAFFIC REPORTS FROM 6:00AM TIL 9:00 AM. THERE IS A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF THINGS THAT DROPPED INTO MY LAP THAT DAY. I WENT TO THE STATION AFTER THAT AND I WENT TO THE STUDIO AND GOT THREE GUYS TO HELP ME AND WE WORKED UNTIL AFTER MIDNIGHT. KARL KING SAID THAT HE AND I HAD BEEN FIRED BECAUSE KARL KING LEFT A PHONE OF THE HOOK TO GIVE ALL OF THE FEEDS WE HAVE TO UPI AND UPI AUDIO. I WASN'T ANYWHERE NEAR THAT CAUSE. WELL, SATURDAY MORNING THERE WAS A STAFF MEETING AND KARL AND I WERE TOLD THAT WE WERE HAVING TO HAVE A BUDGET CUT. kARL SAID IT WAS BECAUSE OF THE PHONE OFF THE HOOK AND I HAD ABSOLUTELY NO PARTY IN THAT. THEN I FOUND THE REASON WHY. NEITHER BILL HAMPTON NOR RON JENKINS HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE ASSASSINATION COVERAGE. THEY WERE GOING OUT BUYING SOME ITEMS FOR BILL HAMPTON'S NEW APARTMENT. THEY NEVER MADE ANY REPORT IN ANY WAY. THEN UPI WANTED ALL OF THE REPORTS WE HAD MADE BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO MAKE A ALBUM ON THE ASSASSINATION. THEY COULDN'T DO IT BECAUSE THEY NEVER USED ANY REPORTS AT ALL. A FEW DAYS AFTER KARL AND I WERE CANNED, RON JENKINS CALLED ME AND ASKED IF I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN MAKING SOME DUMMY REPORTS BECAUSE ALL OF THE COVERAGES WERE STOLEN AND WE CAN'T DO IT UNLESS I DO IT TO. WE WILL ALL MAKE A LOT OF MONEY. WELL WE DID IT BUT I NEVER GOT A DIME FROM ANYTHING ,JENKINS AND HAMPTON GOT IT ALL, THEY DUMMIED UP THE REPORTS AND GAVE THE PHONY STORIES AND GAVE THEM TO UPI. I WAS AT THE STEMMONS FREEWAY A BLOCK FROM THE DEPOSITORY BLDG. AND RON WASN'T ANYWHERE...ALL OF THE REPORTS THEY MADE WERE ABOUT A WEEK AFTER THE ASSASSINATION. THEY MIGHT HAVE SAID SOMETHING ABOUT THE ASSASSINATION BUT IT WAS AFTERDAYS WENT BY ON THE ASSASSINATION. MOST EVERYONE KNEW MY REPORTS WERE NOT THE ONE I HAD THE DAY KENNEDY WAS KILLED. IT WAS A REAL JOKE.
Anyway - hope that everything is good. Thanks for answering my other questions.
Kind regards,
Lee Forman
this was the next and i believe was the last in this thread, i believe about all now has been posted, i will check,but the few from detroit funk....b
Thanks for the dynamite information. The diameter of the pipe was different in 1963? I never heard that before. It's odd, I had heard that there were men in the sewers from a source - and I didn't believe it. To paraphrase - "men in uniform in the sewers.' It's weird how stuff that you hear can continually come around to haunt you. Very interesting B - thank you very much.
I recognize that this location was looked at some time ago - I heard some funny things about it recently, including from Sam Pate, and just started thinking about it again. Pate said that at some point he had a break-in, and had to contact the FBI. The FBI man told him that the name of the shooter in the area of the 'curb' was a man named 'Bruno.' Bruno had maffia connections and he was dead. He had used a silenced .45. Interesting - no? I didn't want to influence his 'curb' bit - but I still think that shooter was right there on the stairs.
Later, Sam told me he went to the Lucas B&B [which was next door to the Vegas club] after they captured Oswald. He said to the owner [Faithon Lucas] - 'well at least they got him.' The owner's response was, 'Well. They think they got him.' The Lucas B&B went on to create a string of restaurants in Texas - I've been to Pappasitos - I was reluctant to post that on the 'other forum.' They have a lot of money.
Here's the latest email I received from Pate - unedited. I also sent him the Moorman where you can see the guy on the stairs, as well as a photo of James Worrell. I let him know that some folks [me really] believe that he may have seen James Worrell running from around the front of the TSBD. I still think Worrell ran on to Erving, or whatever that street is named, where his Mother worked, hooked a right, made it back to Elm, saw the bus stuck in traffic, ran after it, boarded it, and then got off when he saw it wasn't moving. He got a transfer ticket, and then it was all cooked up against Oswald - who probably got a ride to the bus station. All just my thinking I guess.
- lee
Howdy there, have you been beseiged by people want to know something about the Kennedy Assassination?
Hello Sam!
Hope that his email finds all well with you. I am cleaning up my email inbox and came across your address. Just thought it might be wise for me to ask you a few questions, if you don't mind answering.
1. You never explained to me why KBOX fired you.
I was working the motorcade route from Love Field to the Trade Mart but when I got to Cedar Springs and Harwood I could see that I wouldn't be able to hopskotching around due to all of the one-way's and stop signs so instead of getting tied up, I went west on McKinney Ave. then to HiLine Road and Stemmons freeway and put the mobile unit the wrong way on stemmons so I could watch the oncoming traffic and then when the mobile unit was leaving Stemmons, I heard Sheriff Bill Decker say " gets some men up in thjose railroad yards and find out where those shots came from. I radioed Karl King that shots had been fired and the police dispatcher had called for parkland emergency. I was burning rubber down stemmons freeway at about 80 miles per hour and I was speeding toward the motorcade units. I continued on up stemmons racing towayd the motorcade. Kennedy's limo was a few feet from my left side of the car...and I could see a secret service man spreadeagled over the President and Jackie and connally fell to the presidents side of the car and the light blue lincoln convertable went almost over on the east side of the freeway. After they shot past me, I made a u-turn and went up Continental to where Continental and McKinney and Lamar St all came together. I sped to the back end of the Texas Schoolbook Depository, ( I thought it was called the Hertz building ) The Houston St was under construction and almost impassable but I just shot over all of it. A truck driver was finishing his lunch and he ran across the barricade so I could get in and start making some news reports. I was the only guy behind the Depository Bldg. and it was several minutes before any police officers came to the rear of the building. Oswald was running out of the front end of the Depository Bldg. and about half way down Houston he crossed Houston and was running like a rabbit and when he got to the corner of Houston and Pacific Ave. he disappeared. The guy whom was running from the building and then he was out of sight. A Friend was in the mobile unit and we both commented that it was really something if it was the shooter. A few minutes later the police department dispatchers described the runner was the same one we saw.
HARGIS! No, he didn't really say anything except that due to the rain we had allnight, the grassy knoll was slippers and that he had tried several times to run up the embankment but he kept on sliding up the hill. He finally used his hands and feet to make it up the knoll. I asked him if he heard any shots and he said yes, One was a loud report near the triple underpass. A second shot sounded like it came from up in the Depository Building area. Hargis was still up in the grassy knoll area. Then he heard a muffled sound near the curb area. That was where Bruno fired the 45 cal automatic with the silencer...Hargis said that one was like POOMP! The other weapons being fired were like a loud BANG!
2. Hargis ever mention anything peculiar to you about the stairs on the grassy knoll?
JUST WHAT HE HAD TOLD ME.
3. What ever happened to the radio stuff that you did on the scene in Dealey Plaza?
DICK MOORE FORMER NEWS DIRECTOR AT KBOX I UNDERSTAND THAT HE WAS TOLD BY JOHN BOX IN ST LOUIS TO GET THOSE REPORTS AND HIDE THEM A WAY.
4. Did anyone you know say anything odd about kids being around the plaza acting funny?
NO! THE REPORTS I MADE WERE IN THE NEWSROOM AND THEN THEY WERE NOT IN THERE. DICK GOT THEM. MY REPORTS WERE BY TWO-WAY AND TELEPHONE REPORTS. I ADVISED KARL KING ( HE IS DECEASED NOW ) I STAYED AT THE DEPOSITORY UNTIL I MOVED TO CITY HALL AFTER I HAD HEARD THAT OSWALD WAS CAUGHT. I CALLED BILL HAMPTON, MY SO-CALLED NEWS DIRECTOR THAT A POLICEMAN WAS SHOT AT 10TH AND PATTON, DO YOU WANT ME TO RUN OVER THERE REAL QUICK AND CHECK IT OUT? NO, STAY WERE YOU ARE HE SAID...THAT IS WHERE THE ACTION IS. ABOUT 15 MINUTES LATER ANOTHER REPORT CAME OVER A POLICE CAR RADIO AND THE PERSON SPEAKING WAS A CITIZEN SAYING THAT WE THINK THIS POLICE OFFICER IS DEAD....THE DISPATCHER SAID DON'T MAKE ANY OTHER REPORTS.. I TOLD HAMPTON, THE POLICE OFFICER IS DEAD....HAMPTON TOLD ME TO STAY WHERE I AM, IT IS THE HOT SPOT RIGHT NOW. AGAIN AS I WAS SITTING IN THE MOBILE UNIT THAT ON CH 2 AND IT SAID, OFFICERS ON THE MOTORCADE DUTY, GO TO THE OFFICE OF FEDERAL JUDGE SARAH T HUGHES AND MAKE AN ESCOURT TO LOVE FIELD AND SWEAR IN LBJ AS THE NEW PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. THERE WERE NUMEROUS REPORTS I HAD MADE. ABOUT 35 TO 40 OF THEM BECAUSE I WENT TO CITY HALL AND TALKED WITH SEVERAL DETECTIVES AND SPOKE FOR A MOMENT TO OSWALD. THERE JUST WASN'T ANYONE AT THE RADIO STATION THAT WAS INTERESTED. PERHAPS IT WAS BEING A CATHOLIC. THERE WAS HARDLY ANYONE IN THE RADIO STATION. 1FINALLY WENT BY THE LUCAS B&B AND HAD A SANDWICH. I HAD BEEN UP SINCE 4:OO AM BECAUSE I HAD TO DO TRAFFIC REPORTS FROM 6:00AM TIL 9:00 AM. THERE IS A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF THINGS THAT DROPPED INTO MY LAP THAT DAY. I WENT TO THE STATION AFTER THAT AND I WENT TO THE STUDIO AND GOT THREE GUYS TO HELP ME AND WE WORKED UNTIL AFTER MIDNIGHT. KARL KING SAID THAT HE AND I HAD BEEN FIRED BECAUSE KARL KING LEFT A PHONE OF THE HOOK TO GIVE ALL OF THE FEEDS WE HAVE TO UPI AND UPI AUDIO. I WASN'T ANYWHERE NEAR THAT CAUSE. WELL, SATURDAY MORNING THERE WAS A STAFF MEETING AND KARL AND I WERE TOLD THAT WE WERE HAVING TO HAVE A BUDGET CUT. kARL SAID IT WAS BECAUSE OF THE PHONE OFF THE HOOK AND I HAD ABSOLUTELY NO PARTY IN THAT. THEN I FOUND THE REASON WHY. NEITHER BILL HAMPTON NOR RON JENKINS HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE ASSASSINATION COVERAGE. THEY WERE GOING OUT BUYING SOME ITEMS FOR BILL HAMPTON'S NEW APARTMENT. THEY NEVER MADE ANY REPORT IN ANY WAY. THEN UPI WANTED ALL OF THE REPORTS WE HAD MADE BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO MAKE A ALBUM ON THE ASSASSINATION. THEY COULDN'T DO IT BECAUSE THEY NEVER USED ANY REPORTS AT ALL. A FEW DAYS AFTER KARL AND I WERE CANNED, RON JENKINS CALLED ME AND ASKED IF I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN MAKING SOME DUMMY REPORTS BECAUSE ALL OF THE COVERAGES WERE STOLEN AND WE CAN'T DO IT UNLESS I DO IT TO. WE WILL ALL MAKE A LOT OF MONEY. WELL WE DID IT BUT I NEVER GOT A DIME FROM ANYTHING ,JENKINS AND HAMPTON GOT IT ALL, THEY DUMMIED UP THE REPORTS AND GAVE THE PHONY STORIES AND GAVE THEM TO UPI. I WAS AT THE STEMMONS FREEWAY A BLOCK FROM THE DEPOSITORY BLDG. AND RON WASN'T ANYWHERE...ALL OF THE REPORTS THEY MADE WERE ABOUT A WEEK AFTER THE ASSASSINATION. THEY MIGHT HAVE SAID SOMETHING ABOUT THE ASSASSINATION BUT IT WAS AFTERDAYS WENT BY ON THE ASSASSINATION. MOST EVERYONE KNEW MY REPORTS WERE NOT THE ONE I HAD THE DAY KENNEDY WAS KILLED. IT WAS A REAL JOKE.
Anyway - hope that everything is good. Thanks for answering my other questions.
Kind regards,
Lee Forman
this was the next and i believe was the last in this thread, i believe about all now has been posted, i will check,but the few from detroit funk....b