08-08-2011, 08:51 AM
CH: To the extent of my ability to know and judge, there is not a shard of evidence to support the hypothesis that an effort to change Lansdale's "attitude" on Vietnam was one of the assassination operation's objectives.
V: I am not saying that it was an objective of the assassination, rather a by-product with respect to the 3 tramps photo where the man Prouty identified as Lansdale can be seen.
CH: See Noel Twyman's Bloody Treason, among other sources, for research on Harvey's whereabouts during critical pre-assassination periods.
V: Noel Twyman reports that Harvey was in Florida in June 1963 meeting with QJ/WIN for a ZR/RIFLE operation and calling Rosselli by phone. Since ZR/RIFLE and QJ/WIN were operations for assassinating world leaders and Rosselli was involved in Anti-Castro operation to murder the Cuban leader I would suspect that the purpose of his unofficial visit to Florida had to do with a plan to apply his ZR/RIFLE operation with the help of Rosselli to assassinate Castro.
Why leave tracks via an official operation (ZR/RIFLE) if he was planning to kill JFK?
Again the key is Angleton who learned of his meetings with Rosselli, an unofficial meeting that Helms had probably arranged.
In Bloody Treason we read about Ruby's phone calls between May and November. He certainly called various Mafia and Teamsters representatives, and Rosselli. Rosselli was a Las Vegas syndicate man, like Gruber and McWillie were, both Lansky men.
If we follow the same logic, and Ruby was calling Rosselli like Harvey did in order to kill Kennedy, then we conclude that Ruby was involved all along in a plot to kill the President.
We have some evidence to prove it, like Mercer seeing him in a truck at Dealey Plaza, his meetings at the Cabana hotel to mention a few.
We also have some evidence that he was another patsy like Yates' testimony that a man he picked up in his taxi mentioned of killing Kennedy and if he had visited the Carusel club.
The question is, was Ruby involved in a plot to kill Kennedy or he was forced to kill Oswald afterwards for other reasons.
CH: As for Lansky in particular and OC in general: Do you conclude that he/they are Facilitators, Sponsors, and/or patsys?
V: This is a difficult one. If Ruby was involved in a plot to kill JFK and he was calling Rosselli, Gruber and McWillie then we should conclude that Lansky was also involved. If Ruby was not involved then all of them might have been involved with Oswald in Anti-Castro operations unrelated to JFK.
On the other hand The Lansky syndicate and Trafficante had a business interest in South East Asia and specifically the Golden triangle of heroin. They had cooperated with Helliwell and JM/WAVE in laundering drug money, in Lansky casinos and Florida banks.
So in my mind, Lansky was either another patsy, or he was used by the Far-East CIA elements involved in the assignation to launder drug money that were used to facilitate the assassination. It would have been easier and safer than to use H.L.Hunt's money to finance it.
CH: Your decision to eschew mention of Morales because of your quite on-target suspicion of Waldron's deep agenda would be viewed by those who ghost-wrote, so to speak, Waldron's books as a significant victory.
Remember that truth is the essential ingredient of disinformation. Every claim by the likes of Waldron or Posner must be scrutinized individually; such a process is the key to countering disinformation.
Morales was in it up to is ears.
V: It would have been a significant victory for Waldron and his ghost writers if I had accepted that the Mafia and Morales killed JFK, but I don't.
Morales had bragged to his friends while drunk, so this is not an absolute proof that he was a part of the plot. If Morales was involved, what kind of hitmen would he have used? Cuban exiles, or Far East black ops?
Assuming that Lansdale, Morales and Harvey were all involved, would they all be necessary to design and execute the plot?
Regarding H.L.Hunt, I think he was a false sponsor. Where are the Hunts and the Murchisons today?
V: I am not saying that it was an objective of the assassination, rather a by-product with respect to the 3 tramps photo where the man Prouty identified as Lansdale can be seen.
CH: See Noel Twyman's Bloody Treason, among other sources, for research on Harvey's whereabouts during critical pre-assassination periods.
V: Noel Twyman reports that Harvey was in Florida in June 1963 meeting with QJ/WIN for a ZR/RIFLE operation and calling Rosselli by phone. Since ZR/RIFLE and QJ/WIN were operations for assassinating world leaders and Rosselli was involved in Anti-Castro operation to murder the Cuban leader I would suspect that the purpose of his unofficial visit to Florida had to do with a plan to apply his ZR/RIFLE operation with the help of Rosselli to assassinate Castro.
Why leave tracks via an official operation (ZR/RIFLE) if he was planning to kill JFK?
Again the key is Angleton who learned of his meetings with Rosselli, an unofficial meeting that Helms had probably arranged.
In Bloody Treason we read about Ruby's phone calls between May and November. He certainly called various Mafia and Teamsters representatives, and Rosselli. Rosselli was a Las Vegas syndicate man, like Gruber and McWillie were, both Lansky men.
If we follow the same logic, and Ruby was calling Rosselli like Harvey did in order to kill Kennedy, then we conclude that Ruby was involved all along in a plot to kill the President.
We have some evidence to prove it, like Mercer seeing him in a truck at Dealey Plaza, his meetings at the Cabana hotel to mention a few.
We also have some evidence that he was another patsy like Yates' testimony that a man he picked up in his taxi mentioned of killing Kennedy and if he had visited the Carusel club.
The question is, was Ruby involved in a plot to kill Kennedy or he was forced to kill Oswald afterwards for other reasons.
CH: As for Lansky in particular and OC in general: Do you conclude that he/they are Facilitators, Sponsors, and/or patsys?
V: This is a difficult one. If Ruby was involved in a plot to kill JFK and he was calling Rosselli, Gruber and McWillie then we should conclude that Lansky was also involved. If Ruby was not involved then all of them might have been involved with Oswald in Anti-Castro operations unrelated to JFK.
On the other hand The Lansky syndicate and Trafficante had a business interest in South East Asia and specifically the Golden triangle of heroin. They had cooperated with Helliwell and JM/WAVE in laundering drug money, in Lansky casinos and Florida banks.
So in my mind, Lansky was either another patsy, or he was used by the Far-East CIA elements involved in the assignation to launder drug money that were used to facilitate the assassination. It would have been easier and safer than to use H.L.Hunt's money to finance it.
CH: Your decision to eschew mention of Morales because of your quite on-target suspicion of Waldron's deep agenda would be viewed by those who ghost-wrote, so to speak, Waldron's books as a significant victory.
Remember that truth is the essential ingredient of disinformation. Every claim by the likes of Waldron or Posner must be scrutinized individually; such a process is the key to countering disinformation.
Morales was in it up to is ears.
V: It would have been a significant victory for Waldron and his ghost writers if I had accepted that the Mafia and Morales killed JFK, but I don't.
Morales had bragged to his friends while drunk, so this is not an absolute proof that he was a part of the plot. If Morales was involved, what kind of hitmen would he have used? Cuban exiles, or Far East black ops?
Assuming that Lansdale, Morales and Harvey were all involved, would they all be necessary to design and execute the plot?
Regarding H.L.Hunt, I think he was a false sponsor. Where are the Hunts and the Murchisons today?