10-08-2011, 11:55 PM
Thanks Jan, I basically agree with what you suggest Sutton is saying. I ask the question of Ed & others to see what the frames of ref. are in the discussions here. As far as your comment about not seeing withered states that is correct since Marx posited that end as a future outcome since there are no fully communist societies now.
Sorensen didn't didn't suggest there was anything deeper to the "secret society" speech. I think that the way the ref. to secret societies is said in the speech it indicates that there is no thought that the speech is about them. The ref. is used to bolster the notion that we don't like secrecy in a democracy. Of course JFK knew of the existence of these groups i.e. S&B etc. but his concern was govt. secrecy I believe IMHO.
Sorensen didn't didn't suggest there was anything deeper to the "secret society" speech. I think that the way the ref. to secret societies is said in the speech it indicates that there is no thought that the speech is about them. The ref. is used to bolster the notion that we don't like secrecy in a democracy. Of course JFK knew of the existence of these groups i.e. S&B etc. but his concern was govt. secrecy I believe IMHO.
Jan Klimkowski Wrote:Gary Severson Wrote:Magda, I wasn't asking for a definition of Marxian state theory since I know what Marxism says about "the state" which is why I asked the question of Ed. If you read my post closer you will see I didn't suggest Ed made the comment about "the state" but that it was incld. in his post implying it was said in Sutton's material that Ed posted. I was asking Ed what he thought about Sutton's understanding of the significance of "the state".
Gary - I'm citing only your quote above, but considering your several posts on Anthony Sutton's comments about the influence of Hegelian Statism.
It's hard to think of a state that has withered away, according to classic Marxist theory as articulated by Magda in her post.
My own take is that Sutton was attemping to draw a direct link behind the philosophies that spawned totalitarian states and the Skull & Boners' "suppression of individualist tendencies and a careful spoon-feeding of of approved knowledge" in the US education system. And onwards into the control of adult Americans, through the dumbing down of public discourse in America, and its enclosure within carefully defined borders guarded by Mockingbirds.
I don't think the Boners would be terribly keen on the type of state control of thought that they promote "withering away".... :loco:
Thanks for the information about Ted Sorensen.
What else did he tell you about the speech, and its, ahem, deeper meanings?