Libya : A no lie zone

[Bill Kelly]

There certainly are good Arabs and bad Arabs, and a mean, cut-throat steak runs through their blood, as exhibited by the public executions of those who opposed the Gadhafi regime from the very day it seized power.

While I agree there is a hand-chopping and throat-slitting primitiveness to traditional Islamic culture it isn't that much different in effect than carpet bombing or nuclear slaughter. You could actually argue that our violence is much worse by objective scale overall. Plus, don't forget we have our own covert throat-slitters in CIA and other private mercenary forces. It's all a matter of how you look at it I guess. Our democratic 'sharia' has a much higher body count.

As far as "good arabs and bad arabs" there is more than a modicum of hypocrisy in the arabs we propagandize against and those we support and team with. For instance, both Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden were closely supplied US/CIA assets. The US is not soft-handed with those who oppose it.

BK: If they were so closely supplied US/CIA assets then why did we kill them?

How do you know they've traded one dictatorship for another? They say they were fighting and dying (35,000+) for democracy, and they haven't formulated a constitution yet. Have you ever written a constitution?

We'll see how they are allowed to voice opposition to either the US or Israel. Democracy and its definition vary, as does what is claimed in its name. For instance the US war crime invasion of Iraq was also justified with claims of democracy. In case you aren't aware the US already has a history of installing pro-US regimes in the Middle East.

BK: The question is what Libya's policy will be towards Israel but whether they will allow the 1500 year old Jewish community to return to Tripoli. The invasion of Iraq was a crime, but I don't remember installing democracy as being a justification, only mythical WMD. Yes, we installed Shah in Iran thanks to CIA's Kim Roosevelt, and supported Israel, Mubarak in Egypt and who else did they install?

And how is the CIA a rogue power? I thought it was acting on US government policy and administrative orders?

You're not serious? I recommend you read on this site. This type of proxy regime change is exactly what Kennedy fought, and is also exactly what got him killed. I recommend you pay attention to the level of democracy HERE in America while your attention is being drawn overseas.

BK: The CIA isn't a monolithic organization, it's full of just ordinary Americans, as Angleton said, "A house has many rooms," and if you blame everything on the CIA and think the CIA is one big monster, you are being ideological in your view of them. JFK said, "If peaceful revolution is prevented then violent revolution is inevitable," and there is no way that he would back the dictators of Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Iran, Bahrain, Yemen and Syira against the uprising of their people. If he had the choice, the choice between good and evil in Libya would have been easy, and he would not have supported Gadhafi. Democracy in the USA, via the two party system, is a sham, I have not participated since 1968, and you are not in a position to tell me what I should pay attention to.

"Ideological nonsense"? You mean like international law, UN rules, Geneva Conventions, US Constitution, the founding fathers torture repudiation etc etc? Those poor innocent JFK, RFK, MLK, and Lennon-murdering CIA lambs.

BK: The CIA is a scapegoat in the murder of JFK, as I believe the evidence indicates it was done by the US military intelligence, and JFK and RFK were no lambs.

Mmm hhh. Forget the fighter support, weapons supply, tactical assistance etc. No, this isn't phase II of the War On Terror. Couldn't be. Call Langley and ask them. Oh, by the way, the WMD was based on bad intel...

BK: As the Libyans say, God bless NATO for their protection of Benghazi and the eastern cities who revolted, and may God have mercy on those who died at Misratah and other liberated cities that Gadhafi laid seige to and leveled before NATO got involved. No, this isn't a war on terror, its a war against tyranny and dictators. "Death to Tyrants" was the battle cry when the US marines went to Tripoli in 1804 and it is the battle cry of the new Arab revolution. As for WMD, I do pay attention to it here rather than having my attention drawn overseas.....
Whitedeercafe: Weapons of Mass Destruction in My Backyard

Of course not. We can just forget the whole basis of the HSCA or how it caused a new law forbidding CIA from doing exactly that (which they now seem to see as 'irrelevant'). How many JFK's does one Joseph Kony buy???

BK: Joseph Kony is a mass rapist and mass murder who should be tracked down and executed.

By the way, look at the longevity record of past leaders who cooperated with CIA or were targets of US interest. It ain't too good.

BK: Yes, we betrayed Hamid Karamanli in 1805, the Hungarians in 1948, the Cubans in 1961, the Vietnamese in 1972, Sadam in 1992 and Bin Laden and Gadhafi in 2011. I'm sure glad I'm not in bed with them.

Let's see, Bin Laden, killed 3,000 people on 9/11, American Al Qaeda in Yemen who threatened and tried to mass murder Americans, and who else?

I know it was CIA. I'm dead serious when I say I could tell you something that would blow your mind that I know directly that CIA was behind 9-11. It's so dangerous I can't speak of it. There's absolutely no doubt CIA killed 3000 Americans in order to induce the PNAC. CIA (or some removed, convoluted deep form of them) murders American citizens and presidents. I leave it up to you to figure what that makes people who defend them. The sooner CIA is eradicated from America the healthier our democracy will become.

BK: The CIA isn't the problem, they are just an arm of the federal government and if cut off another arm will spring up. I'm not defending them, I'm just saying they're not the Boogie Man you are making them out to be.

Gadhafi's car might have been hit by a CIA Predator Drone, but he was killed by his "sons," his own Libyan people, and for good reasons, though I would have preferred a trail and legal execution.

What do you call the Iraqi "sons" who defended their country against an illegal CIA war?

BK: How is Libya an illegal CIA war? The CIA had nothing to do with it, other than supply Predator Drones after the battle had begun. They didn't even do their job by calling attention to the problem before it became a crisis and failed to predict a region wide revolution even as it was happening. Show me how the CIA had anything to do with the Libyan revolution, please.

I don't think the CIA does anything in the name of democracy. Democracy isn't their mission.

There's really nothing to say past this is there? This is something I fear more and more Americans don't fear saying, or understand the dire implications of, or its affect on democracy.

BK: What the CIA does has no affect on democracy in the USA or anywhere.