Blackwater (now Xi)

[Jan Klimkowski]

Quote:
The Xí people (習) are an ancient Manchurian people. They were on the Manchurian plain at the same time as the more famous Kumo Xi, who were later called Xi (奚).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X%C3%AD

Of course, this is mere, ahem, coincidence....

This is hilarious Jan. And here I was thinking it was just the last sound in the word nazi.

:listen:

Perhaps.

On a bad day, it's about as funny as being called "wee lassie" by Ewen Cameron & his MK-ULTRA (Manchurian) mates before they lobotomized you.

Wayne Morris:

You mentioned Dr. Ewen Cameron was specifically involved in the electroshock. You do have a sense of how long of a period he was involved with your experimentation?

Claudia Mullen:

They called a lot of them in as "consultants". Dr. Heath or Dr. Green would say, "let's call Cameron in ... to test her." Next thing I knew, I would be called back to Tulane and here was the "Camera Man", Cameron. He came in around 1960 when I was about 9 or 10. He was there a lot at first, testing how much electricity was too much, they didn't want to fry my brain or anything because they needed me to seem fairly intelligent because I had to associate with people. I had to go back to school, so they had to be very careful when they used stuff on me, they couldn't disfigure me. I guess I was lucky in that sense, that I was in a private girls' school, I was from a wealthy family and they had to send me back home. My family wasn't involved in this per se. My mom knew they were using me, but she didn't know what exactly - so they had to send me back in fairly good condition. So that made me one of the lucky ones. For the ones from homeless families, or poor families - they didn't care what condition they sent them back in, or even if they sent the child back at all. They would use things on them that would disfigure them, but it didn't matter. In my case, I was fortunate.

Another thing was that Dr. Heath wanted to implant something in my brain and Mr. Fenner wouldn't let him. He said how am I going to explain this to her mother? We can't send her home with her head shaved, so I got out of having implants in my brain because of that.

But you asked me about Cameron. I knew him from about 1959 or 1960 and then when I was in high school one day, just out of the blue, someone said, "he fell off a mountain" - somebody named "Cleghorn" was coming to get me to do the electric shock. I was told years later, that yeah, he was mountain-climbing or skiing and fell off a mountain and died, so that was true.

Wayne Morris:

Did you have a sense of who this Cleghorn person was?

Claudia Mullen:

He worked with Cameron very closely. I guess he was from the same place. He liked to use electricity, only he thought Cameron didn't use enough. He believed in using a lot more. He didn't try to get along with you, or act friendly in any way. He was very cold. Whereas Cameron could talk to you or attempt to be friendly. Some of them were like that. They would introduce themselves, ask questions. Others just did what they had to do and got out of there and never said a word.

Wayne Morris:

So how many years did you come in contact with Dr. Cameron, from 1959-60 until when ...

Claudia Mullen:

I think until I was about 16 or 16 1/2, so that would be 1966 or 1967 and I was told he had fallen off a mountain. I know I was in high school, the latter part of high school. Around 1966 or 1967. The thing I was telling you about - the messages he would give me - he would tape record and then they would play at night? They called it something called "psychic driving". That's what the messages were called.

Wayne Morris:

And Martin Orne? What was his involvement?

Claudia Mullen:

Oh boy. He was one of the scariest people. He was with Dr. Brown, my monitor, at the NIH in the 1950's and they were good friends. He said he was an expert in lie detection and that he could always tell when someone was lying, that he had invented the lie detector or something ... He is a very arrogant person and thinks a lot of himself so he could have told me a lot of lies about what he could do and what he couldn't do. There wasn't anything he couldn't do ... supposedly. He could tell whenever you were lying. He hated everyone. He didn't get along with anyone. He called me "the little bitch" - that was his nickname for me. He wouldn't even call me by name. He mainly did hypnosis type stuff, he was always there for the shock treatments, if nothing else, just to watch ... When they asked me questions, he would be the one to tell them whether I was lying or not. He would have me hooked up to a couple of machines, he would have electrodes on my head and he said he could read the machines and tell whether I was lying or not. I guess it was like a lie detector, I don't know. He's still alive.

Claudia Mullen:

He's still alive in Philadelphia. I called him, he was one of the people i called, cause I remembered him, before i started getting all these memories back. I remembered Robert Heath, of course Dr. Brown, and i remembered this Martin Orne.

Wayne Morris:

So, at what point did you phone him back?

Claudia Mullen:

I phoned him ... after ... the rape happened in October of 1992. That next spring. I started getting weird nightmares and flashbacks. I remembered Martin Orne.

Wayne Morris:

You remembered him as one of your so-called "good" doctors.

Claudia Mullen:

Right. I had his home number. So I called him and he said had I called Dr. Heath. I said "yeah, but he wants me to come back for more electric shock treatments." So Orne said, "that's what you need to do then." I said, why did you do these things to me? I remember you. You were so mean." He said he never did anything to hurt me, that he was just there as a consultant. He swore up and down he never did anything to hurt me. Then I heard ... after we got back from Washington testifying ... I heard that he had a stroke. He is still paralyzed from the stroke I think.

Wayne Morris:

And what about Dr. Robert Heath? What aspects was he specifically involved with?

Claudia Mullen:

He is a neuropsychiatrist and he is the head of the department at Tulane University. It was his department that was given the money, the grant money. He was also given a whole wing of the medical school (just to use for experiments) by Mr. Fenner who was the Chairman of the Board of Tulane Medical School. There were just a lot of children, I remember. We weren't allowed to talk to each other. We weren't even supposed to see each other, but you could hear them sometimes. We would stay on this wing where there weren't any nurses, right? It was just like orderlies and the doctors, but it wasn't a regular hospital like with nurses who came into see you. You had monitors in your room and they watched you. I am pretty sure they had a camera in your room. And Dr. Heath was the head of the department there, and he also was known for doing a lot of work on brains ... experimenting on people's brains and he was the one who wanted to put an implant in my brain so that he could "telegraph", he said, "messages to me" when I was doing the entrapment thing with men that he could stimulate different parts of your brain or something ... he could do it by you know ... remote ... he didn't call it remote control ... he said he could access my brain from a distance, but he had to implant a box in your head.

http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/radio/ckln07.htm