25-10-2012, 11:25 PM
No matter where I look in Piper I find him misstating the facts and omitting key information...
Wish I could just let it go but the amount of venom these two threw at me, still without pointing to source material, keeps leading me back to Piper's book when I read about the times in other sources...
Case in point:
The references to de Vosjoli and the sources come from 1989 and 1991... in fact they come FROM THE SAME BOOK BY MANGOLD....
yet Piper decided that Mangold is enough sourcing for this concept...
We need not explain WHY he refused to obey the order other than making it LOOK like it was related to the Mossad & Angleton.
Instead of the REAL situation whereby de Vosjoli was concerned for his life at the hands of the KGB runned SDECE, he defects.
Or the REAL need of the USA to find out why the French were helping Israel and what was going on to jeopardize JFK's Middle East desires
Just another example of "IF", and "apparently" based on incomplete facts/information.
... {sigh} I will try to stay away... really I will...
btw - in the entirety of Piper's book... which has a significant amount about Angleton, not a single word is written about Golitsyn,the most important defector of his time
[size=12]Angleton, James Jesus 12, 64, 87, 95, 96, 97, 99, 100, 101, 103, 104, 105,
106, 107, 108, 109, 122, 193, 208, 214, 218, 219, 220, 224, 225, 226, 227,
242, 248, 272, 293, 298, 304, 328, 353-355, 358, 370-377, 388, 416, 498,
532, 533, 535, 536, 606
The Israeli Connection: Chapter 8
The CIA's war with JFK: Chapter 9
The Permindex Connection: Chapter 15
The E. Howard Hunt affair: Chapter 16
The French Connection: Chapter 16
The Death of William Colby: Appendix 6
Watergate and Dallas: Appendix 7
[/SIZE]
Piper p302Ifindeed Philippe deVosjoli was one of those who handled the
"investigation"for the Kennedy friend in British intelligence, the fact is that
Vosjolihad a "long friendship [and] special relationship" with the Mossad's
CIAloyalist James J. Angleton (650) to the point that deVosjoli not only
refusedFrench orders to spy on the United States, but instead apparently
helpedAngleton conduct espionage against France.651
(650) Mangold, T., Cold Warrior, Simon & Schuster, New York, 1991, p. 121
[size=12][size=12](651) Mangold, T., Cold Warrior, Simon & Schuster, New York, 1991, p. 127-129
According to Golitsyn, Soviet
control over the SDECE was so complete that the French agency was already
functioning as a virtual arm of the KGB. Based on reports he had seen before
defecting, he predicted that the KGB would soon use the SDECE as a front for
spying on American nuclear deployment. French officer Philippe de Vosjoli, who
was liaison between the SDECE and the CIA, disbelieved Golitsyn-until a few
months later, when he received precisely such an order to set up a spy ring to
monitor US nuclear facilities. De Vosjoli refused to obey the order and,
learning that he was targeted for assassination upon his return to France, defected to the United States.(18)
(18) Epstein, E.J., Op cit.,pp. 65-66, 68-70 (Epstein, E.J., Deception, Simon & Schuster, New York,1989)
The SDECE subsequently carried out the operation against the US under the
code name BIG BEN(19)
(19) Mangold, T., Cold Warrior, Simon & Schuster, New York, 1991, p. 131.
[/SIZE][/SIZE]
Wish I could just let it go but the amount of venom these two threw at me, still without pointing to source material, keeps leading me back to Piper's book when I read about the times in other sources...
Case in point:
The references to de Vosjoli and the sources come from 1989 and 1991... in fact they come FROM THE SAME BOOK BY MANGOLD....
yet Piper decided that Mangold is enough sourcing for this concept...
We need not explain WHY he refused to obey the order other than making it LOOK like it was related to the Mossad & Angleton.
Instead of the REAL situation whereby de Vosjoli was concerned for his life at the hands of the KGB runned SDECE, he defects.
Or the REAL need of the USA to find out why the French were helping Israel and what was going on to jeopardize JFK's Middle East desires
Just another example of "IF", and "apparently" based on incomplete facts/information.
... {sigh} I will try to stay away... really I will...
btw - in the entirety of Piper's book... which has a significant amount about Angleton, not a single word is written about Golitsyn,the most important defector of his time
[size=12]Angleton, James Jesus 12, 64, 87, 95, 96, 97, 99, 100, 101, 103, 104, 105,
106, 107, 108, 109, 122, 193, 208, 214, 218, 219, 220, 224, 225, 226, 227,
242, 248, 272, 293, 298, 304, 328, 353-355, 358, 370-377, 388, 416, 498,
532, 533, 535, 536, 606
The Israeli Connection: Chapter 8
The CIA's war with JFK: Chapter 9
The Permindex Connection: Chapter 15
The E. Howard Hunt affair: Chapter 16
The French Connection: Chapter 16
The Death of William Colby: Appendix 6
Watergate and Dallas: Appendix 7
[/SIZE]
Piper p302Ifindeed Philippe deVosjoli was one of those who handled the
"investigation"for the Kennedy friend in British intelligence, the fact is that
Vosjolihad a "long friendship [and] special relationship" with the Mossad's
CIAloyalist James J. Angleton (650) to the point that deVosjoli not only
refusedFrench orders to spy on the United States, but instead apparently
helpedAngleton conduct espionage against France.651
(650) Mangold, T., Cold Warrior, Simon & Schuster, New York, 1991, p. 121
[size=12][size=12](651) Mangold, T., Cold Warrior, Simon & Schuster, New York, 1991, p. 127-129
According to Golitsyn, Soviet
control over the SDECE was so complete that the French agency was already
functioning as a virtual arm of the KGB. Based on reports he had seen before
defecting, he predicted that the KGB would soon use the SDECE as a front for
spying on American nuclear deployment. French officer Philippe de Vosjoli, who
was liaison between the SDECE and the CIA, disbelieved Golitsyn-until a few
months later, when he received precisely such an order to set up a spy ring to
monitor US nuclear facilities. De Vosjoli refused to obey the order and,
learning that he was targeted for assassination upon his return to France, defected to the United States.(18)
(18) Epstein, E.J., Op cit.,pp. 65-66, 68-70 (Epstein, E.J., Deception, Simon & Schuster, New York,1989)
The SDECE subsequently carried out the operation against the US under the
code name BIG BEN(19)
(19) Mangold, T., Cold Warrior, Simon & Schuster, New York, 1991, p. 131.
[/SIZE][/SIZE]