27-10-2012, 07:12 PM
Albert Doyle Wrote:It was written in the biography Mark cited. Those around Ben-Gurion said he became so obsessed with his battle with Kennedy over nuclear weapons that he had a nervous breakdown and was forced out of office because of it. Remember Israel was creating false facilities at Dimona and bricking-over elevators at this time. Even David indirectly admits this.
It's amazing what some people will do to avoid that simple fact.
Your "agnosticism" is showing Charles.
Charles ignores the fact that David first asked us to provide documentation of this nervous breakdown. His most recent posts acknowledge the breakdown. So David has already conceded it. I am asking David to practice what he preaches and follow his own advice and document what caused the nervous breakdown he now admits?
I'd also like to remind Charles he was the person who said I was free to take an opinion that differed from the Deep Politics website majority.
Tell me that your whole point here was not to get me to admit to BG's breakdown... I am not questioning it since I am not specifically aware of it... all I'm doing is question your ability, or anyone's for that matter, to know WHY the man experienced what he did...
I did NOT ask for documentation of the breakdown - you misstate my intentions and meaning in every post Albert... I asked for documentation of the JFK/BG hatred that supposedly leads to his involvement in planning the assassination...
The letters and citations do not justify the HATRED AND ANGER you and Piper attribute to the relationship... it simply is not there. Regardless of whether Israeli's and Mr. Hersh say so... Like syaing RFK had an affair with Jackie... Saying it does not make it so Albert... and when not one other historian can find supporting evidence of such a rift between these men,other than Sy Hersh and friends, I for one am not convinced.
Futhermore - why do you distance yourself from your own posts?
YOU WROTE: Did you not?
Just to make it clear I think Piper is wrong in his suggestion Ben-Gurion was the initiating sponsor of the assassination.
If he is wrong about BG being an initiating sponsor and just was an agreeable ex-ally... what difference does his relationship to JFK and his breakdown make to OTHER PEOPLE planning the assassination... if you can prove these other people were involved... there is strong circumstancial evidence that tyhe players Piper discusses are involved... but NOT due to his overriding conclusion that it was the BG nuclear situation that pushes that boulder down the mountain...
Finally Albert... "OPINION" remains the key word here... an OPINION based on what the evidence tells you... is just as right or wrong as any other OPINION... when, for example, you can remove speculation from the evidence and let the evidence itself provide the conclusion, OPINION turns to fact... like the FACT that Klein's never sent Hidell anything... or the FACT that Seaport never sent Hidell anything...
These can be proven with documentation... Do you have the secret tapes of BG's psychoanalysis where he claims it was JFK's stance on his nuclear program that causes his problems? Or the concern that a substantial portion of the 80 million arabs were ready to blow Israel of the map at any second?
Do you realize that BG was moving forward anyway? That whatever JFK said and did had NO EFFECT AT ALL on the progress of Dimona?
That you cannot make that connection, seems to me, the reason you maintain your OPINIONs and why Piper is ultimately wrong. JFK was much more interested in Israel than Ike ever was... yes Jophnson was even moreso that JFK... - all I ask is that proper context be included when reaching OPINIONS
Cheers
DJ
"Kennedy was the first president to approve the sale of defensive US weapons to Israel, specifically Hawk anti-aircraft missiles. But Johnson approved tanks and fighter jets, all vital after the 1967 war when France imposed a freeze on sales to Israel. Yehuda Avner recently described on these pages Prime Minister Levi Eshkol's successful appeal for these weapons on a visit to the LBJ ranch. "