Michael Piper and Final Judgment

[David Josephs]

Your obsession with ME as opposed to proving your case is pathetic and sad....

Piper is letting you down, not me "Albert"... the reality of history is letting you down. I just happen to be the messenger.... which is why you and your Ad hom sidekick need to spend all your time attacking me rather than defending you position....and when your ad hom buddy asks for a source... you can't even provide it to HIM.

In David's response I'm searching for something that shows any kind of honest answer to Piper's evidence that Israel was receiving large sums of money through this dirty bank network. Tibor Rosenbaum doesn't have a bronze plaque in Israel praising him for being responsible for the funding of the formation Israel because Piper lacks the proof David demands. Banc de Credit Internacional wasn't finally shut-down by European banking commissions because Piper lacked proof. Nor was BCCI used to replace it because there wasn't an important dirty bank funding underground this cabal relied on. Yet while David has his data entries blow up in his face and prove Piper we are lectured that we have failed his standards.

And all this has WHAT to do with BG supposedly being harrassed into pushing for and assisting in the assassiantion of JFK over Dimona?

You post every possible piece of data you can find EXCEPT that which we are talking about... ??

Mark Stapleton

Originally Posted by David Josephs

So now it's MORE unsupported statements AND Ad homs, the level of your reposnses seems to drop a few notches with each passing day...

You now believe that LBJ and McNamarra had NO INFLUENCE on what went to Israel and Why?

Uh, OK

You posted data but you didn't know how to read & interpret it correctly. The data supported my argument, not yours.

No apology or even a clarification I notice--just more insults.

Where is the insult to you in my post? and why not actually address the topic, not the poster? which is your ongoing adhom ploy to avoid dealing with the issues...

Here was YOUR post though...

Fiscal year 1964, when US foreign aid to Israel fell from 87 million to 37 million, and military aid fell from 13.3 million to zero was a Kennedy fiscal year, not a Johnson fiscal year. What a genius you are.

Do you believe LBJ and McNamarra had influence on the Financial Aid to Israel in Fiscal 1964?
Do you understand that during JFK's tenure spending INCREASES... and then DROPS AFTER HE IS KILLED....

Do you SEE that until JFK there was virtually NO MILITARY ASSISTANCE?
Do you even bother to READ the actual correspondance of the times...

The policy of the US was to NOT intervene militarily for Israel... it is not until 1985 that these LOANS become GRANTS... 1985 Mark...

If LBJ was the great Zionist hope for Israel, why does it take until 1966 to show any significant increases and then are you also going to blame JFK for the drop form $90 Million to $7M in 1967?
In 1968, 50% of that total is Food 4 Peace Loans....

Once again with you two,... you state things yet they are ALWAYS WRONG, and they ALWAYS point in the opposite direction of your conclusions....

If anything, JFK finally broke the seal that allowed the US to overtly support Israel.... and had the de Galle to ask for peaceful negotiations and honesty from its ally....
All Israel did was lie to us.

How you or anyone can read my posts and see them as PRO-Israel in this fight is not reading very carefully.
If ANYTHING, the ongoing stance of Israel towards the USA made their own bed to sleep in.... and we STILL did not make any "DEMANDS" of Israel, other than honesty.

Yes indeed Mark... Israel sure does benefit from LBJ's thanks to the trifecta pulling off this crime... oy.

Now if you could only offer something to support that conclusion... right?


U.S. economic grants to Israel ended in 1959. U.S. aid to
Israel from then until 1985 consisted largely of loans, which Israel repaid, and
surplus commodities, which Israel bought. Israel began buying arms from the
United States in 1962, but did not receive any grant military assistance until
after the 1973 Yom Kippur War. As a
result, Israel had to go deeply into debt to finance its economic development
and arms procurement. The decision to convert military aid to grants that year
was based on the prevailing view in Congress that without a strong Israel, war
in the Middle East was more likely, and that the U.S. would face higher direct
expenditures in such an eventuality.
Israel has received more direct aid from the United States
since World War II than any other country, but the amounts for the first half of
this period were relatively small. Between 1949 and 1973, the U.S. provided
Israel with an average of about $122 million a year, a total of $3.1 billion
(and actually more than $1 billion of that was loans for military equipment in
1971-73) . Prior to 1971, Israel received a total of only $277 million in
military aid, all in the form of loans as credit sales. The bulk of the economic
aid was also lent to Israel. By comparison, the Arab states received nearly
three times as much aid before 1971, $4.4 billion, or $170 million per year.
Moreover, unlike Israel, which receives nearly all its aid from the United
States, Arab nations have gotten assistance from Asia, Eastern Europe, the
Soviet Union and the European Community. Congress first designated a specific
amount of aid for Israel (an "earmark") in 1971.



[TABLE="width: 240"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl66, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl67, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]Total
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl67, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]Military Loan
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl67, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]Military Grant
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1949
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]100
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1950
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1951
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]35.1
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1952
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]86.4
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1953
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]73.6
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1954
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]74.7
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1955
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]52.7
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1956
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]50.8
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1957
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]40.9
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1958
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]85.4
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl69, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1959
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]53.3
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]0.4
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1960
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]56.2
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]0.5
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1961
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]77.9
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]*
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1962
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]93.4
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]13.2
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1963
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]87.9
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]13.3
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1964
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]37
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl69, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1965
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]65.1
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]12.9
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1966
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]126.8
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]90
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1967
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]23.7
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]7
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1968
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]106.5
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]25
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1969
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]160.3
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]85
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1970
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]93.6
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]30
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1971
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]634.3
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]545
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1972
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]480.9
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]300
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1973
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]492.8
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]307.5
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1974
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]2,646.30
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]982.7
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl70, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1,500.00
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]