22-04-2009, 03:23 PM
(This post was last modified: 22-04-2009, 03:38 PM by Tosh Plumlee.)
Peter. Yes I do.... As you know I have gone round and round over the years over this photo saying "it is not what it appears..." The following is a answer to a very good friends question back in Jan 17 2006 just before he died, Tim Carroll, in reference to the picture and OPS 40.
From the ED forum today posted by Simkin with Plumlee's reply.
".... Much of Don Bohning's article refers to this thread on the forum and the photo below and my caption: "This photograph was taken in a nightclub in Mexico City on 22nd January, 1963. It is believed that the men in the photograph are all members of Operation 40. Closest to the camera on the left is Felix Rodriguez. Next to him is Porter Goss and Barry Seal. Tosh Plumlee is attempting to hide his face with his coat. Others in the picture are Alberto 'Loco' Blanco (3rd right) and Jorgo Robreno (4th right)." In an interview with Bohning, Goss insists that he is not the man in the photograph.
Previous post by Plumlee Jan 17,2006 in reference to Tim Carroll question:
"...As you know, part of the operation was a spin from the 5412 group. Operatives would come and go as specialized support personal and they were controlled and dispatched by the 40 group which was part of the 5412 group. In reality there was no covert team named as "Operation 40" that I am aware of and as some have claimed.
Liberties have been taken for whatever reasons and 40 has been cast into a different function than what it really was. Some of the operatives that from time to time did launch missions in behalf of the 40 or 5412 were mostly from the "School of The America" and other specialized operational personal and their training commands. Kind of like TDY ( Temp Duty assignments). As to the mechanics and various operations I can only name about four I was associated with and those are questionable as being dispatched solely by OPS-40 command and cleared by the 5412 Group. Our Teams were dispatched from the Pentagon with logistical support gave by the CIA. In most cases you could say ".. they were not really "CIA" operations, but in reality Military INTEL OPS with CIA logistical support..." At any rate the operations were "layered" and numerous "Locks" and "cut-outs" were assigned to protect the knowledge of these operations and the operational personal.
As to the picture? That is me (Tosh Plumlee, hiding my face) and there were NO CIA PEOPLE AT THAT TABLE... I have said this hundreds of times but nobody will print it.
Additional background post:
QUOTE (William Plumlee @ Jan 13 2006, 04:38 PM)![[Image: post_snapback.gif]](http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/style_images/1/post_snapback.gif)
As you know any detailed organizational matters and the why's and how and who, as to the formation, I would not know. If I did tell you anything in reference to that.., it would only be speculation on my part. That is how operations are or were done on a "need to know bases". I was not at the "planning" level to know those things. Sometimes I was dispatched to members of ops forty as their operational support member. What and why they were doing what they were doing I would not know..., nor would I ask.
from post of Tim Carroll:
"..The recently published book, Ultimate Sacrifice, makes its only mention of Operation 40 in the same context of manipulating the anti-Castro leadership. But what is so important about Tosh's post is the distinction that Operation 40 was a decisionmaking group, and did not include the operatives that were used. I have actually read that this offshoot of the 5412 Committee originally obtained its designation based upon the number of participants, but that it had quickly grown to include approximately 70 such decisionmakers. When we read that Marita Lorenz described the participants in the caravan to Dallas as members of Operation 40, I believe that creates a significant misunderstanding about the group's nature as compared with the mechanics employed for this or that purpose.
Here's how Ultimate Sacrifice deals with the subject, pp. 394-395:
This post has been edited by William Plumlee: Today, 08:05 AM
From the ED forum today posted by Simkin with Plumlee's reply.
".... Much of Don Bohning's article refers to this thread on the forum and the photo below and my caption: "This photograph was taken in a nightclub in Mexico City on 22nd January, 1963. It is believed that the men in the photograph are all members of Operation 40. Closest to the camera on the left is Felix Rodriguez. Next to him is Porter Goss and Barry Seal. Tosh Plumlee is attempting to hide his face with his coat. Others in the picture are Alberto 'Loco' Blanco (3rd right) and Jorgo Robreno (4th right)." In an interview with Bohning, Goss insists that he is not the man in the photograph.
Previous post by Plumlee Jan 17,2006 in reference to Tim Carroll question:
"...As you know, part of the operation was a spin from the 5412 group. Operatives would come and go as specialized support personal and they were controlled and dispatched by the 40 group which was part of the 5412 group. In reality there was no covert team named as "Operation 40" that I am aware of and as some have claimed.
Liberties have been taken for whatever reasons and 40 has been cast into a different function than what it really was. Some of the operatives that from time to time did launch missions in behalf of the 40 or 5412 were mostly from the "School of The America" and other specialized operational personal and their training commands. Kind of like TDY ( Temp Duty assignments). As to the mechanics and various operations I can only name about four I was associated with and those are questionable as being dispatched solely by OPS-40 command and cleared by the 5412 Group. Our Teams were dispatched from the Pentagon with logistical support gave by the CIA. In most cases you could say ".. they were not really "CIA" operations, but in reality Military INTEL OPS with CIA logistical support..." At any rate the operations were "layered" and numerous "Locks" and "cut-outs" were assigned to protect the knowledge of these operations and the operational personal.
As to the picture? That is me (Tosh Plumlee, hiding my face) and there were NO CIA PEOPLE AT THAT TABLE... I have said this hundreds of times but nobody will print it.
Additional background post:
QUOTE (William Plumlee @ Jan 13 2006, 04:38 PM)
As you know any detailed organizational matters and the why's and how and who, as to the formation, I would not know. If I did tell you anything in reference to that.., it would only be speculation on my part. That is how operations are or were done on a "need to know bases". I was not at the "planning" level to know those things. Sometimes I was dispatched to members of ops forty as their operational support member. What and why they were doing what they were doing I would not know..., nor would I ask.
from post of Tim Carroll:
"..The recently published book, Ultimate Sacrifice, makes its only mention of Operation 40 in the same context of manipulating the anti-Castro leadership. But what is so important about Tosh's post is the distinction that Operation 40 was a decisionmaking group, and did not include the operatives that were used. I have actually read that this offshoot of the 5412 Committee originally obtained its designation based upon the number of participants, but that it had quickly grown to include approximately 70 such decisionmakers. When we read that Marita Lorenz described the participants in the caravan to Dallas as members of Operation 40, I believe that creates a significant misunderstanding about the group's nature as compared with the mechanics employed for this or that purpose.
Here's how Ultimate Sacrifice deals with the subject, pp. 394-395:
This post has been edited by William Plumlee: Today, 08:05 AM