05-03-2014, 08:05 PM
An amazing and detailed write-up to be sure Jim....
Yet we are trying to simplify the presentation to aid understanding... https://harveyandlee.net/~harveyan/Novem...ber_22.htm is the page where all this is presented and in full context with the other links and evidence alos at that site...
Let's take a look at the very first point: HARVEY, wearing a long-sleeved brown shirt,leaves Dealey Plaza
and the following supporting evidence...
On page 819 of H&L we find this:
NOTE: David Belin, Joseph Ball and Commission members heard testimonythat theywere unable to reconcile. They did not understand that Mrs. Reid sawLee Oswald, wearing
a short-sleeved white T-shirt and carrying a bottle of Coke, passthrough the TSBD office only moments before Truly and Baker confronted Harvey Oswald inthe lunchroomwearing a long-sleeved brown shirt.
That encounter is very questionable given what we have in Baker's affidavit from that day... not the coordinated testimonies of Truly and Baker months later...
I am NOT disputing that HARVEY was wearing the brown Briarloom shirt found in his room's dresser... as he left the TSBD.
or that LEE was seen by Reid wearing only the T-Shirt... if it was LEE with the coke leaving the lunchroom past Reid, how could it have been HARVEY who Baker and Truly supposedly encounter only seconds before?
----
This is from the signed affidavit of a DPD police officer... is this meaningless evidence or what actually happened? If this is a true account given that afternoon, what does that do to the assumptions that follow in that essay?
As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket
No lunchroom, no coke, no windowed-door... none of that.
and NOT on the 2nd floor but in the stairway itself higher up.... would that not have REDUCED the time needed for this encounter and have been even MORE incriminating to Oswald than the ficticious Lunchroom encounter?
If this is NOT OSWALD... who was it? Truly of course is never asked that question.
p.819 continues:
The rear stairway was almost totally dark as Lee Oswald and the man in the brown jacket descended from the 6th to the 1st floor.
In the article you post there is no mention of Adams walking down the stairs encountering no one, hearing no one... and the essay you posted does not discuss the Baker Affidavit v testimony problems.
yet you do offer: Three women working in the Dal-Tex building directly across the street said they saw Jack Ruby give Oswald a pistol. Without a source or reference. If you are aware of the source of this info please post as this is a critical statement with specific implications... without corroboration, a reference or a source document... I am at a loss as to how it can be reliable.
To follow - I understood it was LEE with which Ruby was involved, not HARVEY... why would Ruby be giving anything to HARVEY or risk being seen with him in broad daylight outside the TSBD handing him a gun ?
----
Let me be clear - I AGREE WITH JOHN ABOUT LEE KILLING TIPPIT.... the identifications are there, the preamble is corroborated... the timing is correct.
Yet reading further in the essay you posted:
If Jack Ruby gave HARVEY Oswald a pistol, as witnessed by the three women from the Dal-Tex Bldg., then he may have left the holster in his room and taken the pistol with him to the theater
Why is John doubting the direct evidence corroborated by three people - unless the evidence for such an occurance is not as iconclad as one would expect?
(I've discussed material with John which he excluded from the book due to its sensational implications and lack of ironclad sourcing... he did not want that muddying up the already very deep waters.... if there are three women's statements I have yet to find them)
----
We have HARVEY at the Texas Theater between 1:05 and 1:15... with no mention of how he might have gotten there....
p.832
At 1:00 pm Harvey Oswald was changing clothes at 1026 N. Beckley and RoyTruly had not yet told DPD Captain Fritz that Oswald was missing from the building.
Oswald would not be arrested for nearly an hour and his name was not known to thepublic.
I had originally thought the honking car picks him up and drops him near the theater... and found that the driver of #207, Valentine, and the car itself was at Elm/Houston where the keys are given to Putnam. Valentine claims to have helped in the search of the TSBD so he and the car were there prior to 1pm*... yet these keys and car are not mentioned again until 3:30.... http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/putnam1.htm
Sgt Putnam here was only questioned about his role on Nov 26th and the killing of Oswald. Between 12:47 and 3:30 we have no record of where car #207 might be.
The last transmission I have for Putnam is the 12:47 one... he obviously did not radio from his car after that...
[TABLE="width: 458"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][size=12]12:41[/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 189, bgcolor: transparent"]60 (Sgt. J.A. Putnam)[/TD]
[TD="class: xl67, width: 341, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]60[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]12:41[/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 189, bgcolor: transparent"]Dispatcher[/TD]
[TD="class: xl67, width: 341, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]60[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]12:41[/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 189, bgcolor: transparent"]60 (Sgt. J.A. Putnam)[/TD]
[TD="class: xl67, width: 341, bgcolor: transparent"]Police garage.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]12:41[/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 189, bgcolor: transparent"]Dispatcher[/TD]
[TD="class: xl67, width: 341, bgcolor: transparent"]10-4.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="width: 518"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]*12:47[/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 189, bgcolor: transparent"]60 (Sgt. J.A. Putnam)[/TD]
[TD="class: xl67, width: 341, bgcolor: #FFCC99"]Yes, I have just arrived at Elm and Houston now.[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]12:47[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5756[/ATTACH]
While if you read both Fritz's notes and Kelly's notes they both said that HARVEY tells them he took the bus all the way to the Theater until they remind him of a cab ride. HARVEY's response is one of the few directly quoted comments from Oswald, which of course is absurb given the time delay in writing up these notes... Fritz sure goes out of his way to get the bus to cab to home sequence in there...
[/SIZE]I could go on Jim... my purpose here is not to find the inconsistencies but to ask that we not inundate the reader with pages of text without links to references and evidence....
My primary focus for almost a year now has been to make H&L more accessible, more understandable and ultimately as accepted as wound alteration or frontal shots...
presenting info that is obviously in conflict with other info without further explanation can leave our intended audience confused....
I'd prefer not taking 4 steps back for every 1 step forward... please remember that next to you I am one of John's biggest supporters... we both know he has moved on from this for very good reason... he is tired of making this HIS explanation and having to defend it... this is and has always been about the Evidence he found in places no one else looked, and leads he followed no one even knew about.
harveyandlee.net speaks for itself... please allow me to assist in culling it down to digestible bites HERE, with all the necessary back-up along with my imagery work... while removing any speculation or theorizing that does not have the kind of supporting documentation we've come to expect...
Peace
DJ
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5754[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5753[/ATTACH]
Yet we are trying to simplify the presentation to aid understanding... https://harveyandlee.net/~harveyan/Novem...ber_22.htm is the page where all this is presented and in full context with the other links and evidence alos at that site...
Let's take a look at the very first point: HARVEY, wearing a long-sleeved brown shirt,leaves Dealey Plaza
and the following supporting evidence...
On page 819 of H&L we find this:
NOTE: David Belin, Joseph Ball and Commission members heard testimonythat theywere unable to reconcile. They did not understand that Mrs. Reid sawLee Oswald, wearing
a short-sleeved white T-shirt and carrying a bottle of Coke, passthrough the TSBD office only moments before Truly and Baker confronted Harvey Oswald inthe lunchroomwearing a long-sleeved brown shirt.
That encounter is very questionable given what we have in Baker's affidavit from that day... not the coordinated testimonies of Truly and Baker months later...
I am NOT disputing that HARVEY was wearing the brown Briarloom shirt found in his room's dresser... as he left the TSBD.
or that LEE was seen by Reid wearing only the T-Shirt... if it was LEE with the coke leaving the lunchroom past Reid, how could it have been HARVEY who Baker and Truly supposedly encounter only seconds before?
----
This is from the signed affidavit of a DPD police officer... is this meaningless evidence or what actually happened? If this is a true account given that afternoon, what does that do to the assumptions that follow in that essay?
As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket
No lunchroom, no coke, no windowed-door... none of that.
and NOT on the 2nd floor but in the stairway itself higher up.... would that not have REDUCED the time needed for this encounter and have been even MORE incriminating to Oswald than the ficticious Lunchroom encounter?
If this is NOT OSWALD... who was it? Truly of course is never asked that question.
p.819 continues:
The rear stairway was almost totally dark as Lee Oswald and the man in the brown jacket descended from the 6th to the 1st floor.
In the article you post there is no mention of Adams walking down the stairs encountering no one, hearing no one... and the essay you posted does not discuss the Baker Affidavit v testimony problems.
yet you do offer: Three women working in the Dal-Tex building directly across the street said they saw Jack Ruby give Oswald a pistol. Without a source or reference. If you are aware of the source of this info please post as this is a critical statement with specific implications... without corroboration, a reference or a source document... I am at a loss as to how it can be reliable.
To follow - I understood it was LEE with which Ruby was involved, not HARVEY... why would Ruby be giving anything to HARVEY or risk being seen with him in broad daylight outside the TSBD handing him a gun ?
----
Let me be clear - I AGREE WITH JOHN ABOUT LEE KILLING TIPPIT.... the identifications are there, the preamble is corroborated... the timing is correct.
Yet reading further in the essay you posted:
If Jack Ruby gave HARVEY Oswald a pistol, as witnessed by the three women from the Dal-Tex Bldg., then he may have left the holster in his room and taken the pistol with him to the theater
Why is John doubting the direct evidence corroborated by three people - unless the evidence for such an occurance is not as iconclad as one would expect?
(I've discussed material with John which he excluded from the book due to its sensational implications and lack of ironclad sourcing... he did not want that muddying up the already very deep waters.... if there are three women's statements I have yet to find them)
----
We have HARVEY at the Texas Theater between 1:05 and 1:15... with no mention of how he might have gotten there....
p.832
At 1:00 pm Harvey Oswald was changing clothes at 1026 N. Beckley and RoyTruly had not yet told DPD Captain Fritz that Oswald was missing from the building.
Oswald would not be arrested for nearly an hour and his name was not known to thepublic.
I had originally thought the honking car picks him up and drops him near the theater... and found that the driver of #207, Valentine, and the car itself was at Elm/Houston where the keys are given to Putnam. Valentine claims to have helped in the search of the TSBD so he and the car were there prior to 1pm*... yet these keys and car are not mentioned again until 3:30.... http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/putnam1.htm
Sgt Putnam here was only questioned about his role on Nov 26th and the killing of Oswald. Between 12:47 and 3:30 we have no record of where car #207 might be.
The last transmission I have for Putnam is the 12:47 one... he obviously did not radio from his car after that...
[TABLE="width: 458"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"][size=12]12:41[/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 189, bgcolor: transparent"]60 (Sgt. J.A. Putnam)[/TD]
[TD="class: xl67, width: 341, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]60[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]12:41[/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 189, bgcolor: transparent"]Dispatcher[/TD]
[TD="class: xl67, width: 341, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]60[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]12:41[/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 189, bgcolor: transparent"]60 (Sgt. J.A. Putnam)[/TD]
[TD="class: xl67, width: 341, bgcolor: transparent"]Police garage.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]12:41[/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 189, bgcolor: transparent"]Dispatcher[/TD]
[TD="class: xl67, width: 341, bgcolor: transparent"]10-4.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="width: 518"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]*12:47[/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 189, bgcolor: transparent"]60 (Sgt. J.A. Putnam)[/TD]
[TD="class: xl67, width: 341, bgcolor: #FFCC99"]Yes, I have just arrived at Elm and Houston now.[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]12:47[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5756[/ATTACH]
While if you read both Fritz's notes and Kelly's notes they both said that HARVEY tells them he took the bus all the way to the Theater until they remind him of a cab ride. HARVEY's response is one of the few directly quoted comments from Oswald, which of course is absurb given the time delay in writing up these notes... Fritz sure goes out of his way to get the bus to cab to home sequence in there...
[/SIZE]I could go on Jim... my purpose here is not to find the inconsistencies but to ask that we not inundate the reader with pages of text without links to references and evidence....
My primary focus for almost a year now has been to make H&L more accessible, more understandable and ultimately as accepted as wound alteration or frontal shots...
presenting info that is obviously in conflict with other info without further explanation can leave our intended audience confused....
I'd prefer not taking 4 steps back for every 1 step forward... please remember that next to you I am one of John's biggest supporters... we both know he has moved on from this for very good reason... he is tired of making this HIS explanation and having to defend it... this is and has always been about the Evidence he found in places no one else looked, and leads he followed no one even knew about.
harveyandlee.net speaks for itself... please allow me to assist in culling it down to digestible bites HERE, with all the necessary back-up along with my imagery work... while removing any speculation or theorizing that does not have the kind of supporting documentation we've come to expect...
Peace
DJ
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5754[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5753[/ATTACH]
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter