Sean Murphy's research deserves more

[Donald Manning]

That ID of Frasier peeked my interest and it's much better quality than what I got from the net.
Think you need to put this here too though, I got to page14 over there but it's not easy.



Looks like Sean's man is buttoning up his sleeves before getting back to work with the rest of them,
(or okay opening a can of... kick ass).

[Marlene Zenker]

That ID of Frasier peeked my interest and it's much better quality than what I got from the net.
Think you need to put this here too though, I got to page14 over there but it's not easy.



Looks like Sean's man is buttoning up his sleeves before getting back to work with the rest of them,
(or okay opening a can of... kick ass).

Donald, I think that's the best explanation of what Prayer Man is doing - I don't recall anyone suggesting that in the entire thread.

[Tracy Riddle]

Looks like Sean's man is buttoning up his sleeves before getting back to work with the rest of them,
(or okay opening a can of... kick ass).

But, if Oswald is really that innocent about what's going on around him (doesn't even find it significant that the President has been shot outside his workplace), then he really should have been hanging around the TSBD for another half-hour to hour like a normal employee.

Oswald's actions after the assassination indicate someone who either played a minor role in the plot, or someone who has just realized that he's been set up (by people he knows) and he'd better escape.

[Marc Ellis]

The bigger problem I have with this theory is that it means the plotters were't controlling their patsy at all (telling him to wait for a phone call in the first floor warehouse, for example). Which means he could have been standing out there on Elm Street captured by half the photographers that day.

Right. Good point. There's a huge contrast between Fetzer's micromanagement of the assassination in the Plaza and those same managers allowing Oswald to wander out front during the shooting. Truth is they got him into the lunch room where he would be out of the way of everything.

I think one of the most interesting questions, which after 50 years we can't answer with certainty, is what the hell did Oswald think was going on? His behavior after the assassination while still in the TSBD is strange to say the least. He either is outside and goes back in to get a Coke, not the first thing most people would do after what just happened, or he is in the lunchroom and doesn't go outside like any normal curious person would do or maybe he does (ala Prayer Man). He tells the police that he left because he didn't think there would be anymore work that day. (ok, he needed to tell them something about why he left so quickly after the assassination). Another interesting thing, assuming more than one Oswald, he says he took the bus and a cab though he doesn't admit to the cab at first, so he knows there is another Oswald and he is privy to the cover story. Hell, many if not most researchers at this point don't think he took either. When he is questioned about getting into a car he assumes they are talking about Ruth Paine's car. Why would she or anyone using her car be there to begin with if Oswald has no idea what is going on?


So many questions, so few answers.

He wasn't behaving like a shooter would have behaved IMO. He seemed to be aware of what had happened. He was waiting for something, instructions, a ride, a chance to leave for a rendezevous, or perhaps merely for a certain aount of time to pass. Something might have gone wrong. Or maybe he had a scheduled meet-up somewhere.

Looks like Sean's man is buttoning up his sleeves before getting back to work with the rest of them,
(or okay opening a can of... kick ass).

But, if Oswald is really that innocent about what's going on around him (doesn't even find it significant that the President has been shot outside his workplace), then he really should have been hanging around the TSBD for another half-hour to hour like a normal employee.

Oswald's actions after the assassination indicate someone who either played a minor role in the plot, or someone who has just realized that he's been set up (by people he knows) and he'd better escape.

Both, I think - especially the latter. BUT...the plotters could not have planned for LHO to be arrested. So they would not have deliberately abandoned him. There would have been no need for Jack Ruby if they had.

BTW, I thought Summers did a good job on the TSBD & Oswald's whereabouts during and immediately after the shooting. Wherever Oswald was, he was not on the sixth floor. But I cannot decipher anything from the images in this thread.

[Albert Doyle]

If you analyze Oswald he always stuck to the script even in tight situations that included false defection, street fighting, and arrest. It's unlikely he would have wandered to the front steps during the assassination. The reason they chose Oswald was because he obeyed orders and could be relied upon. This was proven in the police station.


Read DiEugenio on Oswald's alleged escape. Sometimes the level of bold corruption is stunningly beyond what even critics imagined.

[Donald Manning]

Excuse me yes, "Prayerman" I just looked it up and was expecting to see a man with his hands together(but most likely clapping) in Altgens not because as BK says they were folded in front of him.

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.co.uk/201...-tsbd.html

Couldn't find it immeadiatly though but I'm sure I've seen it somewhere, is it in the shadows in Altgens or in a completely different image?
I also have to admit the resergence of the Lovelady/Oswald thing in Altgens was lost on me, I haven't gone through that yet.

I downloaded "Beyond JFK" to get a decent segment from that Darnell footage for another reason entirely but it didn't match the quality of that frame that Ivan posted on P2 here with the Frasier recognition. Think I need the DVD or whatever source that came from.

From Bills' blog link above

On Sept. 19[SUP], [/SUP]2013 Gary Mack wrote: The Prayer Man question has probably been answered. I recently sent the Couch and Darnell frames to Buell Frazier and asked what he thought.

Wouldn't that be something?
Recieving frames in your email from the actual stock.
Maybe when Jim takes over?

Anyway Tracy, yes I would easilly agree to an agrument for Lee clearly knowing the jig was up soon after the Baker encounter but that event could possibly have been minutes away like was suggested.
Sticking to the image evidence alone for a minute, doesn't it all seems to suggest that no one heard anything significant from a window above them?
Even if they saw Baker run past some may have thought "oh, poor man must need the bathroom bad".
May have took a good while for that whole gang on the steps to realise someone shot at the president at all and then it would be perhaps just a rumour.

[Tracy Riddle]

Sticking to the image evidence alone for a minute, doesn't it all seems to suggest that no one heard anything significant from a window above them?
Even if they saw Baker run past some may have thought "oh, poor man must need the bathroom bad".
May have took a good while for that whole gang on the steps to realise someone shot at the president at all and then it would be perhaps just a rumour.

It was either Meagher or Weisberg who first pointed out that not one of the TSBD employees was afraid of returning to the building, or acted like the shots came from their workplace. Some of the female employees would later tell the WC that they thought the shots came from the TSBD, but also said that they went right back to their offices. Oh really? Does that sound believable? In the office building where I work, if the President was shot right outside and anyone suspected the shooter was in our building, NO ONE would be going back in to possibly encounter a madman with a gun.

edit: missing words

[Donald Manning]

If you analyze Oswald he always stuck to the script even in tight situations that included false defection, street fighting, and arrest. It's unlikely he would have wandered to the front steps during the assassination. The reason they chose Oswald was because he obeyed orders and could be relied upon. This was proven in the police station.


Read DiEugenio on Oswald's alleged escape. Sometimes the level of bold corruption is stunningly beyond what even critics imagined.

Watching some of the footage again recently, the event I love is where he protests about who he's been lined up with. That's the man I believe didn't shoot anyone, the look on his face too, however it's just a few seconds of footage where his respect for fairness and decency shines through amd like you say Albert there's many, many other aspects to consider.

[Donald Manning]

Sticking to the image evidence alone for a minute, doesn't it all seems to suggest that no one heard anything significant from a window above them?
Even if they saw Baker run past some may have thought "oh, poor man must need the bathroom bad".
May have took a good while for that whole gang on the steps to realise someone shot at the president at all and then it would be perhaps just a rumour.

It was either Meagher or Weisberg who first pointed out that not one of the TSBD was afraid of returning to the building, or acted like the shots came from their workplace. Some of the female employees who would later tell the WC that they thought the shots came from the TSBD, but also said that they went right back to their offices. Oh really? Does that sound believable? In the office building where I work, if the President was shot right outside and anyone suspected the shooter was in our building, NO ONE would be going back in to possibly encounter a madman with a gun.

Yes kind of like,
"if we all walk in there and pretend we're just heading back to work we can take him together by suprise". Just like the three on the fifth, there's very clearly too much (poor)deduction "after the fact"(see that?)
I really have to go read something by those good people asap.

Just to be clear though I don't see that as Oswald(yet) but can't help but find those very early reactions in the films fascinating, it's also good to we're able to imagine what if, rather than stuck to something that allows no wiggle room at all.

[Albert Doyle]

Watching some of the footage again recently, the event I love is where he protests about who he's been lined up with. That's the man I believe didn't shoot anyone, the look on his face too, however it's just a few seconds of footage where his respect for fairness and decency shines through amd like you say Albert there's many, many other aspects to consider.

Yeah, I remember that scene and it struck me that way too. What you are seeing is a man who is both trained in counter-interrogation methods and innocent at the same time.