Aircraft and the Twin Towers

[David Guyatt]

What do members make of this?

[Peter Lemkin]

Yes, an interesting analysis of one MSM report obviously changed. This topic is complex and highly contested. Many good 911-Truth websites refuse to allow anyone to post or be a member who believes in the 'no-plane' theory [which is actually several different theories]. I think to untangle this aspect, one has to really examine most [or all] footage available that day - as well as anomalies observed in the motion, speed, accuracy of the 'planes', as well as how they apparently damaged the building and/or melted into them. I, myself, hold a modified no-plane theory; but am fairly certain that the official line and official videos do not represent the reality of what happened. It was a grand magic show....the biggest one every performed and the largest audience ever watching one.....

The perpetrators and the World Populace can agree on one thing: the 'event' changed almost everything thereafter.....

[Carsten Wiethoff]

I agree with Peter that the mainstream media videos did not depict reality. They were also manipulated (color schemes), to increase psychological impact.
For me the clearest case is the BBC dive bomber video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqxYi6Y-sUo which in my eyes can not be consistently matched with many others in which the plane basically flies level.
Also the nose out video (Chopper 5) (discussion at http://www.911conspiracy.tv/chopper5_nose-out.html ) is critical.

I do accept that there were planes flying low over Manhattan on 9/11, but I am not convinced that they were the planes that officially hit the buildings.

[Peter Lemkin]

While I think it likely under computer [not human] control...and maybe a drone plane with NO persons on board, the first plane seems to have more 'reality' to it and the second 'plane' to 'hit' the towers less..... There are many sub-topics within this one that need to be teased out. Carsten has brought up a few others. Most physicists and experts on plane crashes don't believe the planes would have gotten so far and so easily into the WTC buildings had they actually hit [if they were passenger planes]. Despite their speed and thus high momentum, they were made mostly of very soft aluminum and should have crumpled near the firm outer web of steel. Fuel, perhaps, and engines, for sure, would have gone in further, but we are shown huge fireballs of burning fuel both at the point of entry and purported exit point. This also lends itself to an unreal or semi-real event with special effects to help create the Shock and Awe.

[Drew Phipps]

I also notice that in neither clip can you see any part of the plane pass behind the space between the buildings. Of course the point of view might be too far to the right to permit a view of the sky behind the area between the buildings, I can't tell.

An interesting video, and altering the video is what television editing is all about, so it is entirely possible for the video to be altered before the evening news airs. However, I can tell you that I DID watch a live broadcast that included the second plane actually striking the building, not NBC I suppose, as the perspective was different. IIRC it was CNN.

I also remember seeing something happening to the South Tower (live) a bit before it fell. I could never put my finger on what it was I saw, maybe a sudden increase of stuff falling from the area near the crash site, or subtle movement of the sides of the tower, but I thought, "that building's coming down!" a good 15-20 seconds before it started.

[Peter Lemkin]

I also notice that in neither clip can you see any part of the plane pass behind the space between the buildings. Of course the point of view might be too far to the right to permit a view of the sky behind the area between the buildings, I can't tell.

An interesting video, and altering the video is what television editing is all about, so it is entirely possible for the video to be altered before the evening news airs. However, I can tell you that I DID watch a live broadcast that included the second plane actually striking the building, not NBC I suppose, as the perspective was different. IIRC it was CNN.

I also remember seeing something happening to the South Tower (live) a bit before it fell. I could never put my finger on what it was I saw, maybe a sudden increase of stuff falling from the area near the crash site, or subtle movement of the sides of the tower, but I thought, "that building's coming down!" a good 15-20 seconds before it started.

Your last statement gets into a whole other complex matter....there were large explosions [visually filmed and heard/felt by many witnesses] in other buildings nearby - and likely also in the lower parts of the towers before they came down. The only explanation, IMO, is pre-planted high-explosives. There is some information on this that can be found - and well supported, if suppressed and never spoken about in the MSM.

As far as MSM reports all day long. There is ample evidence of [at best] their being fed information and when to say what/film what...and [at worst] complicity in the events of the day being mis-reported. The CNN and BBC reports of WTC-7 down when it was not was, IMO, their earlier orders carried out when the pre-planned demolition of WTC-7 was for unknown reasons delayed.

Later, there were disaster actors for the cameras....and on and on and on...the screenplay of this horror was written well in advance along with the shock-and-awe magic show. The anthrax attacks had also already been pre-planned and the unPatriot Act written long before......

[David Guyatt]

I also notice that in neither clip can you see any part of the plane pass behind the space between the buildings. Of course the point of view might be too far to the right to permit a view of the sky behind the area between the buildings, I can't tell.

An interesting video, and altering the video is what television editing is all about, so it is entirely possible for the video to be altered before the evening news airs. However, I can tell you that I DID watch a live broadcast that included the second plane actually striking the building, not NBC I suppose, as the perspective was different. IIRC it was CNN.

I also remember seeing something happening to the South Tower (live) a bit before it fell. I could never put my finger on what it was I saw, maybe a sudden increase of stuff falling from the area near the crash site, or subtle movement of the sides of the tower, but I thought, "that building's coming down!" a good 15-20 seconds before it started.

Your last statement gets into a whole other complex matter....there were large explosions [visually filmed and heard/felt by many witnesses] in other buildings nearby - and likely also in the lower parts of the towers before they came down. The only explanation, IMO, is pre-planted high-explosives. There is some information on this that can be found - and well supported, if suppressed and never spoken about in the MSM.

As far as MSM reports all day long. There is ample evidence of [at best] their being fed information and when to say what/film what...and [at worst] complicity in the events of the day being mis-reported. The CNN and BBC reports of WTC-7 down when it was not was, IMO, their earlier orders carried out when the pre-planned demolition of WTC-7 was for unknown reasons delayed.

Later, there were disaster actors for the cameras....and on and on and on...the screenplay of this horror was written well in advance along with the shock-and-awe magic show. The anthrax attacks had also already been pre-planned and the unPatriot Act written long before......

I also watched it live and watched Netanyahu being interviewed on Brit tv where he claimed right off that the culprit was Usama bin Laden. It was evident even then that the fix was in. And interestingly, Netanyahu was on hand for the London 7/7 bombings with prior knowledge of the bombings.

[R.K. Locke]

I'm certain that some of the MSM footage was modified in order to create cognitive dissonance and endless debate (as with the Kennedy assassination) but by the same token I don't think you can reasonably doubt that some kind of plane hit the building:

[Lauren Johnson]

Having watched videos 100's (?) of times, I would discount the David's video in #1 post. RKL's summary of plane videos settles and has settled it for years. Planes did it.

RKL: I would appreciate knowing which MSM video you think has been altered and what are you seeing that leads you to this conclusion. I just haven't appreciated any alterations. But then, I believed everything I was told on that day. ::

FWIW, I favor the electronic hijack theories including the plane switching options. The passengers arrived dead by turning off the oxygen or they were soon dispatched in some way.

[Drew Phipps]

Also, the "fact" (let's just call it that for now) that NBC altered footage of the event (let's say they stabilized it, slowed down the explosion, and substituted a hazy background instead of the Hudson River shoreline - "accidentally" deleting the incoming airplane) doesn't necessarily imply anything about any group of plotters. I would point out that much of the rest of the recorded footage still contains planes. I rather think that the "blob" is just a pixelated plane at low resolution, but the differing flight path is interesting.

Netanyahu's unbelieveable and prescient accuracy about the identity of the perpetrators is seemingly buttressed by the "Dancing Israelis." Everyone who is anyone already knew all about it.