Nazi Circular Vertical Takeoff Flying Vehicles - vis-a-vis "UFO's"

[R.K. Locke]

There is also plenty of useful info in these threads on the EF:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index....topic=7453

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index....opic=13700

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index....topic=8783


CD Jackson, of course, represents a direct link between the Nazis, UFOs and the Kennedy assassination.

[Kara Dellacioppa]

Have you read this? Here is an interview ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHAW-8iM6TA

Btw, I meant to mention that I have searched the Nick Cook documentary, UFO's The Secret Evidence for the CIA psywar discussion. It begins at approx 41:50 with Bedell Smith's memo about utilising flying saucer sighting for "the possible offensive or defensive utilization of these phenomena for psychological warfare purposes."

I knew of this document some 20 years ago and received the explanation that UFO flaps would be used as a cloak for a US first nuclear strike on the Soviet Union. Dissecting this Bedell Smith memo leads me to conclude that the CIA had no interest in the so called alien technology at all - I think they knew exactly what really was causing that - but realized that the public concern could be developed to their war plan advantage.

At 43:00 the segment moves on to the interview with the former CIA analyst, Melvin Goodman, who worked on these psywar operations under Bissell, that I referenced earlier. But you'll need to fast forward from there to his comments towards the end of the programme to hear what he says in that regard (apologies but I don't have the time to parse the whole doco now).

[Peter Lemkin]

Can I ask that this remains about Nazi connections to the JFK Assassination and another thread be started on UFOlogy [and related].

The subject was brought up in your original post.

The 'subject' was briefly mentioned. The main concept of the tread was the Nazi connections to the JFK Assassination - NOT about the abilities and origins of flying disks. Again, please limit remarks here to those on persons with Nazi connections who were or were not related to the JFK assassination and someone start another thread for the rest....which was diverting the entire thread's intentions and message. I changed this one's title and location...so proceed. I'll move those posts to the other which are about Nazis [persons] or Nazi sympathizers and pals [persons] who were involved in the JFK Assassination, IMO. Now there are two threads, and I hope they will not conflate the two matters.

I note however, I somehow managed to disappear/mess up the first several posts. VERY Sorry! I'll see if I can find them and add them to the front of this thread shortly. I have asked Magda to help me untangle this...but if you see a post you made here now missing, just add it again. Thanks.

[David Guyatt]

Have you read this? Here is an interview ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHAW-8iM6TA

Btw, I meant to mention that I have searched the Nick Cook documentary, UFO's The Secret Evidence for the CIA psywar discussion. It begins at approx 41:50 with Bedell Smith's memo about utilising flying saucer sighting for "the possible offensive or defensive utilization of these phenomena for psychological warfare purposes."

I knew of this document some 20 years ago and received the explanation that UFO flaps would be used as a cloak for a US first nuclear strike on the Soviet Union. Dissecting this Bedell Smith memo leads me to conclude that the CIA had no interest in the so called alien technology at all - I think they knew exactly what really was causing that - but realized that the public concern could be developed to their war plan advantage.

At 43:00 the segment moves on to the interview with the former CIA analyst, Melvin Goodman, who worked on these psywar operations under Bissell, that I referenced earlier. But you'll need to fast forward from there to his comments towards the end of the programme to hear what he says in that regard (apologies but I don't have the time to parse the whole doco now).

I haven't read it Kara, but have now ordered it after listening to that interview with the author, who seems sufficiently switched on in his research efforts imo, to warrant the purchase.

My caution here is because there is a such a long standing confusion on occult matters; very often inflamed by Christian groups, especially the rabble rousing ones, who say that anything occult is Satanic. That is just not the case, and it behoves one to tread with care in these matters, and to ascertain if authors know their subjects sufficiently well to be worth adding to ones bookshelf. In this interview the speakers also touch on the Rosicrucians, Knights Templar and Manly P Hall - conflating them all into the same dark, satanic mess. It's very sloppy, I think.

There is another book on 9/11 and the occult connection - The Most Dangerous Book in the World; 9/11 as a Mass Ritual, by S K Bain. It generally is worth a read although the author placed in the book a second part that was guaranteed to ensure the book's self-destruction and, indeed, this happened. But the main part of the book is worth reading, I think.

I would add as an aside, that the speakers later discuss Stanley Kubrick's 2001, A Space Odyssey - but do not discuss his last film Eyes Wide Shut, which is a great deal more explicit. I do wonder if Kubrick was himself involved in the occult?

Have you read Ramsay's book and if so what's your take on it?

[Kara Dellacioppa]

Hi David,
Ive been reading many different books touching on the occult and politics, right now "Hammer of the Gods" about the Thule Society, "Turn off your Mind" by Gary Lachman" and still finishing the Sinister forces series. I have not read Ramseys book yet but I have it and its in my cue. Ive listened to many of his broadcasts and I am facebook friends with him. We all participate in the FB page for Maury Terry's THe Ultimate Evil about the Son of Sam murders, its coming out in a new edition next year. So I have gotten to know some of the people like Ramsey who are researching this kind of thing. I agree it difficult to separate out people who have an axe to grind with the occult (christians and even some extremist libertarians like Jan Irvin). I've listened to several of his (Ramseys interviews) and yeah usually the hosts have some christian right wing agenda or they are proto fascist like Red Ice Radio hosts. But I think Ramsey is a pretty solid researcher. ive been communicating off and on with Peter Levenda over the last months, he responds to me when I have a really well thought out question. One thing ive been playing around with is how the occult and its organizations are so intertwined with spycraft and statecraft, how people like Crowley and Annie Besant had important roles in maintaining the British Empire. Apparently Annie Besant of the Theosophical Society (i think) was instrumental in setting up the Indian Congress Party. I started thinking how much British culture expropriated land labor all over the world and they ALSO plundered spiritial ideas, brought back to England and developed them into another weapon of empire. I mean, there a differentiation that doesnt get made between the role of the OTO or the Theosophical society and Haitian Voodoo or Santeria or Native American Shamanism or just folk magic in general. And then of course the whole secret society angle, which I think becomes increasingly important as monarchies lose power and democracy is on the rise, where ordinary people start to get the idea in their head that maybe they should be able to rule, well secret societies are developed in part to prevent that from happening. Anyway I dont know where Im going with this but it sure is interesting. I think when dealing with this kind of material, its helpful to maintain a sociological perspective as well instead of getting too wrapped up in the good vs evil thing.. at least it helps me..

Have you read this? Here is an interview ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHAW-8iM6TA

Btw, I meant to mention that I have searched the Nick Cook documentary, UFO's The Secret Evidence for the CIA psywar discussion. It begins at approx 41:50 with Bedell Smith's memo about utilising flying saucer sighting for "the possible offensive or defensive utilization of these phenomena for psychological warfare purposes."

I knew of this document some 20 years ago and received the explanation that UFO flaps would be used as a cloak for a US first nuclear strike on the Soviet Union. Dissecting this Bedell Smith memo leads me to conclude that the CIA had no interest in the so called alien technology at all - I think they knew exactly what really was causing that - but realized that the public concern could be developed to their war plan advantage.

At 43:00 the segment moves on to the interview with the former CIA analyst, Melvin Goodman, who worked on these psywar operations under Bissell, that I referenced earlier. But you'll need to fast forward from there to his comments towards the end of the programme to hear what he says in that regard (apologies but I don't have the time to parse the whole doco now).

I haven't read it Kara, but have now ordered it after listening to that interview with the author, who seems sufficiently switched on in his research efforts imo, to warrant the purchase.

My caution here is because there is a such a long standing confusion on occult matters; very often inflamed by Christian groups, especially the rabble rousing ones, who say that anything occult is Satanic. That is just not the case, and it behoves one to tread with care in these matters, and to ascertain if authors know their subjects sufficiently well to be worth adding to ones bookshelf. In this interview the speakers also touch on the Rosicrucians, Knights Templar and Manly P Hall - conflating them all into the same dark, satanic mess. It's very sloppy, I think.

There is another book on 9/11 and the occult connection - The Most Dangerous Book in the World; 9/11 as a Mass Ritual, by S K Bain. It generally is worth a read although the author placed in the book a second part that was guaranteed to ensure the book's self-destruction and, indeed, this happened. But the main part of the book is worth reading, I think.

I would add as an aside, that the speakers later discuss Stanley Kubrick's 2001, A Space Odyssey - but do not discuss his last film Eyes Wide Shut, which is a great deal more explicit. I do wonder if Kubrick was himself involved in the occult?

Have you read Ramsay's book and if so what's your take on it?

[Dawn Meredith]

I was totally disappointed in that book David. He tried to make his case but failed miserably. (The Most dangerous Book in the World". I got it due to Lavenda's Prologue.)

Dawn

[Tracy Riddle]

Well, that's great. I didn't start this thread, and it doesn't belong in this part of the forum. ::

[David Guyatt]

I agree, Tracy. The thread is mixed and muddled and doesn't belong in JFK. I think, however, that we should now just let this little stream follow it's own course, rather than move it elsewhere, which will only confuse things more than has happened already.

Sometimes a subject has its own mind...

[David Guyatt]

Hi David,
Ive been reading many different books touching on the occult and politics, right now "Hammer of the Gods" about the Thule Society, "Turn off your Mind" by Gary Lachman" and still finishing the Sinister forces series. I have not read Ramseys book yet but I have it and its in my cue. Ive listened to many of his broadcasts and I am facebook friends with him. We all participate in the FB page for Maury Terry's THe Ultimate Evil about the Son of Sam murders, its coming out in a new edition next year. So I have gotten to know some of the people like Ramsey who are researching this kind of thing. I agree it difficult to separate out people who have an axe to grind with the occult (christians and even some extremist libertarians like Jan Irvin). I've listened to several of his (Ramseys interviews) and yeah usually the hosts have some christian right wing agenda or they are proto fascist like Red Ice Radio hosts. But I think Ramsey is a pretty solid researcher. ive been communicating off and on with Peter Levenda over the last months, he responds to me when I have a really well thought out question. One thing ive been playing around with is how the occult and its organizations are so intertwined with spycraft and statecraft, how people like Crowley and Annie Besant had important roles in maintaining the British Empire. Apparently Annie Besant of the Theosophical Society (i think) was instrumental in setting up the Indian Congress Party. I started thinking how much British culture expropriated land labor all over the world and they ALSO plundered spiritial ideas, brought back to England and developed them into another weapon of empire. I mean, there a differentiation that doesnt get made between the role of the OTO or the Theosophical society and Haitian Voodoo or Santeria or Native American Shamanism or just folk magic in general. And then of course the whole secret society angle, which I think becomes increasingly important as monarchies lose power and democracy is on the rise, where ordinary people start to get the idea in their head that maybe they should be able to rule, well secret societies are developed in part to prevent that from happening. Anyway I dont know where Im going with this but it sure is interesting. I think when dealing with this kind of material, its helpful to maintain a sociological perspective as well instead of getting too wrapped up in the good vs evil thing.. at least it helps me..

Hi Kara. In answer to one of your questions, my best guess would be that at the time the British Empire was at its height, a great many of the senior administrators, Army officer class and so on, would've have been practising Freemasons. The latter is deeply embedded in Cabalistic doctrine and Egyptian magical rites etc., and so there would've been, I think, many Brits in foreign service (as they liked to call it) absorbing foreign esoteric knowledge and practises and bringing them home when they returned. This practise of repatriation dates back to at least the Knights Templar - who were later absorbed and concealed inside Freemason lodges - who found and brought back lost arcane Arabic knowledge of alchemy from their years in the Holy Land, and this was, I understand, their entire purpose in going there in the first place anyway.

This would, I think, also generally account for the question how esoteric/occult knowledge became part of British spy craft, too and with British speciality in this being handed to US spies during WWII, also made it's way to the US also - not-with-standing Scottish Rite Freemasonry which became popular in the colonies via British regiments stationed in the US around the time of the War of Independence (her we can also note that the so called "French Rite" of Freemasonry was really the Scottish Rite anyway, and so there would've been a double stream into the colonies from both the British (Scottish) and French influences.

We also need to recall that back in Elizabethan times, many fine upstanding court figures were deeply embedded in occult studies, like John Dee, the spymaster and magus, plus many of his pupils and juniors in both disciplines; for example, Sir Francis Bacon, who founded the Invisible College that, in turn, gave rise to the Royal Society. Antagonism to the Catholic Church/Vatican control of human minds was deeply rooted in this movement also.

Lastly, Freemasonry was such a wide church, drawing in people from all professions and levels of life as members, that it fairly quickly spread to all parts of British life - from the highest to virtually the lowest.

[Magda Hassan]

Well, that's great. I didn't start this thread, and it doesn't belong in this part of the forum. ::

I agree, Tracy. The thread is mixed and muddled and doesn't belong in JFK. I think, however, that we should now just let this little stream follow it's own course, rather than move it elsewhere, which will only confuse things more than has happened already.

Sometimes a subject has its own mind...

I've split off the Nazi connections to JFK related posts and they can be found in JFK board. I've merged the 2 Nazi circular flying vehicles and it can be found in Science and Technology. Hope that helps.