Consciousness and the Problem of the Shadow - The House of the Gathering

[David Guyatt]

Thanks for putting article up, David. It made me more mindful of my dreams. I gotta tell ya'll about my dream last night.

This huge native American man approached me with a big smile on his face -- pretty much a copy of Chief in Cuckoo's Nest. He gives me a big bear hug, because he had beat the crap out of someone finally and it felt so good. Somehow I got credit because I had been his friend. He's walking around dragging me like his teddy bear explaining the situation. I say, "Gee, you must feel great" while I am thinking he could snap my neck like a pencil.

Talk about a Shadow dream.

A really nice dream Lauren, I think. I liked Chief in Cuckoo's Nest. He became a grounded and free man because of the example of McMurphy. It was a great film, I think, and one of Nicholson's best imo.

What do I know, but I would mark him down as a very positive figure - and although immensely strong, a real gentle man. I think you must've woken up feeling good about that dream.

The shadow, generally speaking is simply dark, bloody and fucking awful. Scary, mean and devious. Or whatever you need compensating about. One of my shadow figures 20 years ago was, yes, Pablo Escobar. I shit you not. It took a long time for me to figure that one out -- but finally I did. Throughout my entire life I have shunned drugs - other than a few drags on a spliff later in life. Friends who were serious drug users mainlining heroin when I was a lot younger, used to call me the "preacher" - which speaks volumes, eh.

What Pablo was telling me was that I had drifted too far into a righteous attitude about drugs and was nudging me to swing back into a more balanced perspective.

Actually, I woke up relieved. He was so powerful and strong and had me smashed against his body like a two year old walking around with a kitten by the neck. I think there is a message of balance in there somehow. Chief is a wonderful figure for sure.

Thanks Lauren. I think this shows the danger of trying to analyse dreams at a distance instead of face to face where the dreamer can amplify the dream content. Jung taught that dreams can only be analyses on a personal face to face basis for this reason, as otherwise errors, misunderstandings and projections creep in.

My bad. I knew that. Fingers duly burned.

I'll avoid doing that again in the future.

[Magda Hassan]

[David Guyatt]

Can't say I'm a fan of Kate Bush but the lyrics in this song are outstanding...

[David Guyatt]

Actually, I think the dream might have to do with speaking out about deep political matters more than just here. It hasn't been welcomed very much. It has been easier to hide here at DPF. But putting stuff on Facebook that presents the POV on the NATO War on Russia, etc. is not welcomed. I can feel the unconscious darkness coming towards us and worse yet, liberals either engaging in willful ignorance or embracing it. And we don't have a Jack Kennedy to provide wisdom and courage. In my circle of friends and relatives, I feel alone. But it feels good to speak out. That's the joy that Chief in my dream experienced.

Snap. I post deep political content on my FB to friends and family and it is mostly universally ignored. I think people are scared to speak out about these things, and many also don't want to face the abyss that confronts them if they allow themselves to be more open to these ideas. So, they choose to simply ignore it and move on to other "cuddly" and 'easy" subjects.

David, with regards to your comment, if I were in therapy like I was 35+ years ago, dreams would be essential parts of it like they were back then. I found that interpreting them in the context of therapy was essential. The things I most needed to hear from the dream were the ones I resisted or suppressed. It is indeed such hard work to engage the shadow or other elements.

Aye Lauren, I agree entirely. My take is that the unconscious is always trying to balance the person and make them whole.

[quote[Regarding the COLLECTIVE UNCONSCIOUS [EDIT: rereading, this should be COLLECTIVE SHADOW], that concept was always just purely an abstraction, something only CGJ would think about, but surely not possible to experience for us mere mortals. Not any more. My experience, encountering the collective unconscious was worse -- a nightmarish experience.

After my wife had died 15 years ago, I was pretty much road kill. I quit my job and went to Central America three times: first, with a church group twice and then to Guatemala alone. By the time I had returned the third time, I was hallucinating a waking nightmare. If I closed my eyes, I found myself in a dark forest with dried leaves on the forest floor. I could hear a beast of some hideous sort crunching through the leaves searching for people to eat. I finally realized I could read its mind. It hated everything that was good and intended to make sure the planet was devoid of life knowing full well that would be the end of its existence. The beast's only comfort was that it had decimated the creation.

Finally, I realized it knew where I was even in that pitch black darkness. It's thoughts were "I'm fattening you up. I will kill and eat the wretched of the earth. Then I will come for you and your ilk. I am so looking forward to that time."

The waking hallucination was only relieved by sleep and finally it ended all together, but not before I was convinced I was truly slipping into a madness from which there would be no return. It was quite unnerving.

Finally, to interpret this hallucination as my experiencing merely my own unconscious would just not do it justice. I knew and know now that I was experiencing the darkness of the world that I was trained to see -- the collective unconscious of the West.

My favorite film which describes the experience of coming into consciousness is The Matrix and specifically the Red Pill scene. I got the chills just re-watching this scene even now. Cheers.

I think the Matrix series opened up a lot of people's minds and yep, my FB friends tend to chose the blue pill and continue in the Matrix. I also had some sympathy for the character Cypher who wanted to turn back his decision of having swallowed the red bill and return to the bliss of ignorance. There have been times when that seemed perhaps to be the better choice, but as many of us know, once your eyes have been opened, there is no way you can turn around and have them sowed back up again.

[Lauren Johnson]

My bad. I knew that. Fingers duly burned.

I'll avoid doing that again in the future.

No hay problemas. Nada.

Your fingers are not burned. I liked reading your ideas and am thinking about them still.

My point was that to go very deep into a dream, I would need a guide helps me see things I can't or won't.

The way I look at it, when you analyze someone else's dream, you have actually made it your own dream. How about that?

EDIT: Therefore, David, my present to you!!

[Magda Hassan]

The way I look at it, when you analyze someone else's dream, you have actually made it your own dream. How about that?

EDIT: Therefore, David, my present to you!!

[David Guyatt]

My bad. I knew that. Fingers duly burned.

I'll avoid doing that again in the future.

No hay problemas. Nada.

Your fingers are not burned. I liked reading your ideas and am thinking about them still.

My point was that to go very deep into a dream, I would need a guide helps me see things I can't or won't.

The way I look at it, when you analyze someone else's dream, you have actually made it your own dream. How about that?

EDIT: Therefore, David, my present to you!!

It was more a case of memo of self rebuke Lauren. I was projecting and know better.

I appreciate your kindness and know you're sensible and well balanced, so no problemo. Which is good. The thing is that each of us tend to see symbols slightly differently and respond differently, which reflects the play of our psyche and, I suppose, emphasises that each of us are unique. I have always seen "Chief" as a very positive figure, but that isn't everyone's take, just mine.

[Lauren Johnson]

I have always seen "Chief" as a very positive figure, but that isn't everyone's take, just mine.

Once again, Chief is indeed a positive figure for me. Not only that ...

A thought: Chief in my dream is like a hero. He and I had pulled something over on the guy he finally punched out after having wanted to for years. He is a kind of a stumbling, bumbling hero though.

I just gave up on the shadow thing. I love this guy is a hero.