LR Trotter Wrote:For lack of a better term, "ScarfLady" is used due to her wearing a head scarf/bandana, and also wearing a dark coat, as she is seen on the upper step/landing of the TSBD main entrance portal some minutes after DealeyPlaza shooting that fatally wounded JFK and seriously wounded JBC. I have yet to see her properly identified, but she appears to be seeking entrance into the building, as BillyNolanLovelady appears to be looking on from a lower step. So, for clarification, is she an employee of the TSBD building? And, can she be properly identified?
We may have to take a couple of things into consideration as you continue to seek to identify this woman, especially if you have narrowed down your choices to Pauline Sanders and Sarah Stanton. I'll have to read through some material later today, but I'm almost certain--given the time of the photograph shown--Pauline Sanders had already returned to her office desk on an upper floor of the building; and, in regards to Mrs. Stanton (RIP), she may be ruled out as I believe Billy Nolan Lovelady made reference to her as the woman shading her eyes from the Sun, where in that particular reference the lady in question actually shading her eyes is much heavier than "ScarfLady". Again, I'll make a good faith effort to double-back here later today to share some specifics on the points I've shared. Enjoy your day.
BillyNolanLovelady said what? Can you provide the quote where he referenced the lady shading her eyes being Ms SarahDeanStanton?
Good afternoon, Mr. Trotter (well, at least here in New York)
All the same, in respect to BNL making reference to Sarah Stanton, it was actually Mr. Frazier (Buell Wesley) who shared her physical attributes/description. That said, though I'm on lunch break void of my notes and own personal computer at this time, BNL may have made reference to Sarah Stanton as "that lady shading her eyes...she works on the 2nd floor" (that particular instance came when BNL was laying claim to being Doorway Man, and simply pointed out to the journalist (cannot recall his name at the moment) of the New York Herald-Tribune his image in the famous Altgen's 6 photo.
Now, in fairness to you or anyone else reading along, Mr. Trotter, I readily admit his singling her out doesn't necessarily mean she is Sarah Stanton; however, when one looks at that Altgen's 6 photo the person shading her eyes is a bit short and portly, heavy-set. In addition, as referenced by Mr. Frazier (Buell Wesley) a heavy-set woman named "Sarah" worked on the 2nd floor. Given that all of these folks stood together that afternoon, it's a safe bet that both men spoke of the same lady who worked on the 2nd floor (unless of course, further research can bear out that there was more than one heavy-set, 40ish-something lady working on the 2nd floor. I do not have time at the moment, but in good faith I'll peek at my CE 1381 notes later this evening, Mr. Trotter and determine if other women per their statements can or cannot be eliminated as BNL's "that lady shading her eyes".
Of course, as you know, Mr. Trotter, a great many of them that afternoon stood along the sidewalk much further away from the entrance steps, where Mr. Frazier (Buell Wesley) and BNL shared physical space with Sarah Stanton, who may have shared via small talk before the parade got underway that she worked up on the same floor they both evoked when making their references to a woman matching a similar physical description as detailed by Mr. Frazier (Buell Wesley) and as seen in Altgen's 6 as well...
Altgen's Six photo (lady shading eyes on bottom right)
Please note her full, bloated face as oppose to "ScarfLady's" more gaunt features. Also of note is this women's light clothing, which also sets her apart from the darker clothing worn in contrast by "ScarfLady".
Recap: Only Mr. Frazier (Buell Wesley) actually shares a physical description of "heavy-set" Sarah who worked on the 2nd floor. "ScarfLady" is nowhere near heavy-set. Unless there's two heavy-set Sarah's working on the same floor, I believe these gentlemen (Frazier and Lovelady) have nailed her down.
06-07-2017, 06:58 AM (This post was last modified: 06-07-2017, 03:24 PM by LR Trotter.)
Alan Ford Wrote:
LR Trotter Wrote:
Alan Ford Wrote:Let's take some things in consideration in respect to Pauline Sanders and/or Sarah Stanton as potential candidates for ScarfLady.
Let's begin with their respective FBI statements:
Sarah Stanton (11-23-63 FBI report, CD7 p.20) "Sarah Stanton...advised that she is employed in the second floor office of the Texas School Book Depository...and at about 12:30 on November 22, 1963, she was standing on the front steps as the President passed and shortly thereafter she heard three explosions; however, she did not know where they came from and immediately went into the building, caught the elevator, and went to the second floor offices, and into the office of the Southwestern Publishing Company, located there, to try to look out the window and see what was happening. She then went to the restroom and later returned to her desk."
Pauline Sanders ((3-19-64 statement to the FBI, 22H672) ) "At approximately 12:20 PM on November 22, 1963, I left the lunchroom on the second floor of the building and went out the front entrance to await the arrival of the presidential motorcade which I knew was due to pass the Depository about 12:30 PM. I took up a position at the top of the front steps of the Depository building facing Elm Street. To the best of my recollection, I was standing on the top step at the east end of the entrance. I recall that while standing there I noticed Mrs. Sarah Stanton standing next to me, but I am unsure as to the others. Mrs. Stanton is likewise an employee of the Texas School Book Depository. To the best of my recollection I did not see Lee Harvey Oswald at any time on November 22, 1963, and although I knew him by sight as an employee of the building I did not know him by name and had never spoken to him at any time. I do not recall seeing any strangers in the Texas School Book Depository Building at any time on the morning of November 22, 1963. After the motorcade car carrying President John F. Kennedy passed, I remained a moment on the steps, then walked out to the concrete island in front of the Depository Building to see what had happened. I remained there a moment and then returned to the Depository Building through the main entrance. I then walked to the second floor where I usually worked."
As we have read, both Sanders and Stanton by their own FBI sworn statements shared above immediately remove themselves off/away from the front entrance long before ScarfLady is captured on film some 15-17 minutes later. Plenty of strange activity out on those steps that fateful afternoon. A 55 year old woman (Sanders) and a 41 year old woman (Stanton) immediately return inside of a building where supposedly shots just came from (one would think they were old enough to know better).
In addition to their FBI statements above, particularly in respect to Sarah Stanton, lest we forget, her fellow building employee Mr. Frazier (Buell Wesley) describes her as heavy-set. Please note that ScarfLady is not ---->
*Buell Wesley Frazier's FBI sworn statement (3-11-64) makes reference to a physical description of Sarah Stanton: "I stayed around there pretty close to Mr. Shelley and this boy Billy Lovelady and... "There was a lady there, a heavy-set lady who worked upstairs there whose name is Sarah something, I don't know her last name."
These are just some points tp take into consideration when making every good faith effort to correctly identify ScarfLady.
If you wish to dispute my expressed conclusion, please properly identify ScarfLady, as pictured at about 12:50pm CST on 11/22/'63, on the TSBD Building entrance steps/landing, along with the proper identification of Ms SarahDeanStanton and Ms PaulineRebmanSanders at about 12:30Pm CST on 11/22/'63 among the occupants of the TSBD Building entrance landing.
As you referenced BuellWesleyFrazier's comment regarding building employee "Sarah", you should also find his comment about speaking to her on the landing near the time of the fatal wounding of JFK, and serious wounding of JBC, just after Ms GloriaCalvery(sp?) returning to the entrance area and telling what she had seen.
I'm not making any effort to dispute your conclusions, Mr. Trotter. On the contrary, I'm trying to work with you in establishing "ScarfLady's" actual identity. That said, given Mr. Frazier's physical description alone eliminates Mrs. Stanton. Truth be told, where it concerns the 55 year old Pauline Sanders, I'm not so sure she isn't "ScarfLady" (but have to go with her FBI sworn statement for now that she cleared the zone immediately).
Begs the question, Did she have to be elsewhere to aid in orchestrating the guilt of an innocent man?
I honestly do not know, but if I had to choose between Pauline Sanders (55) or Mrs. Stanton (41), I'd go with the former as "ScarfLady". But her own FBI sworn statement is telling us otherwise. Again, I'm here to work with you, Mr. Trotter (the truth is beautiful no matter the source), and I'm convinced that's all you seek.
I managed to review my CE 1381 notes earlier this evening. A couple of key points culled from that exercise: there was only one female within that historical record named "Sarah", so suffice it to say Mr. Frazier (Buell Wesley) wasn't talking about someone else when he detailed Sarah Stanton's physical description as heavy-set; and we both can clearly see "ScarfLady" isn't heavy-set.
Again, if I had to personally choose between Pauline Sanders (55) and Sarah Stanton (41) for being "ScarfLady" I'd choose Mrs. Sanders; however, her own FBI sworn statement shared above refutes this (asserting that she was already back inside and upstairs on the 2nd floor in her office long before the photo image of "ScarfLady" appears some 15-17 minutes later outside on the entrance landing.
I'm just as curious as you are about the actual identity of "ScarfLady". I've noted in the Martin and Hughes film that a shadowy figure appears just behind her. He is wearing a steel hat and a light clothing uniform of sorts. I believe this gentleman could be Howard Brennan, who confirmed that Oswald's clothes on the day of the assassination had not resembled those of the gunman he saw in the 6th floor window. Could the woman in question, "ScarfLady", have accompanied him to watch the parade that afternoon and simply joined him up on those steps while he was awaiting questioning from the DPD?
Any thoughts, ideas, Mr. Trotter? I'm open to learning. The truth is a good thing, something to treasure no matter its source. Enjoy the rest of your week should our electronic paths not cross again until this weekend. Carpe Diem!
If in fact you have made a conclusion as to the proper identification of "ScarfLady", just make your case. I made no request for you to work with me, nor do I need you to tell me what I see. You mentioned what BillyNolanLovelady might have said? And in this post you mentioned BuellWesleyFrazier talking about SarahDeanStanton. He also stated that he spoke to Sarah just after the assassination shooting at 12:30pm. So, she had to be there at that time, and could have stayed a few minutes and/or returned later. But, where was she?
​In any event, I stand by my thoughts as posted.
If in fact you have made a conclusion as to the proper identification of "ScarfLady", just make your case. I made no request for you to work with me, nor do I need you to tell me what I see. You mentioned what BillyNolanLovelady might have said? And in this post you mentioned BuellWesleyFrazier talking about SarahDeanStanton. He also stated that he spoke to Sarah just after the assassination shooting at 12:30pm. So, she had to be there at that time, and could have stayed a few minutes and/or returned later. But, where was she?
​In any event, I stand by my thoughts as posted.
Good afternoon, Mr. Trotter (at least here in New York)
In respect to coming to making a proper identification of "ScarfLady", I'm not so much coming to a conclusion as much as narrowing the field of candidates. Two women (Pauline Sanders and Sarah Stanton can be eliminated due to their own sworn-statements given to the FBI, where they shared they returned inside the building and headed upstairs to their offices 15-17 minutes before "ScarfLady" is captured on film (Martin and/or Hughes).
Moreover, Mr. Frazier (Buell Wesley) also eliminates Sarah Stanton as a candidate for "ScarfLady" as well, sharing the contrast differences in physical descriptions between the only Sarah on those steps that afternoon and "ScarfLady". He made it crystal clear that Sarah was "heavy-set".
In the following phototaken while shots were still being fired upon the presidential limousineBNL shared that it was he who was in the Altgen's 6 photo not Mr. Oswald, even buttressing his claim by noting the only female shading her eyes (a heavy-set woman who just so happens to work on the same floor as Sarah Stanton, who the research community knows was standing on those steps in close proximity with BNL, Mr. Frazier (Buell Wesley), Otis Williams, Bill Shelley and Pauline Sanders.
At the precise moment of this Altgen's picture, Every other female is accounted for… either upstairs viewing out their respective windows, or standing some 30 feet away from the steps out on the curb, or even further down the Elm Street slope. The only female standing near BNL that matches Mr. Frazier's description of Sarah Stanton is shading her eyes. No one viewing from upstairs transported themselves downstairs; no one standing 30 feet away from the steps out on the curb transported themselves backwards onto those steps; same goes for the females standing further down Elm Street's slope.
I do believe Mr. Frazier did speak to Sarah Stanton immediately following the triangular ambush of gunfire upon the presidential limousine, but I also believe her when she shared that she returned inside and upstairs in a timely manner way before the photo capturing "ScarfLady" is taken by different photographers.
In respect to the possibility of her returning later to the landing, Mr. Frazier's physical description alone rules her out as the much thinner "ScarfLady". Meanwhile, I'll make a good faith effort to return here possibly mid-week and share any new findings in respect to Sarah Stanton…I am actively on it…
That index page came up for me????? Don't see her in there.
There's lots of Dean's' at Boyd, but I don't see a Sarah.
Is the maiden name Dean or Stanton?
If you have time on your hands, Mr. Trotter, please consider reading the sworn-statements in CE 1381, where you will findamong other telling evidencethat the front doors were actually locked once the authorities arrived on the scene, leaving those already having retuned inside and those outside without access in or out. There was one female who had gone shopping on her lunch break, only to return to a locked door, leaving her no recourse but to wait until much later that afternoon to reenter the building and fetch her coat and belongings (because she said in her sworn FBI statement that she needed to get her coat I immediately ruled her out as "ScarfLady", because "ScarfLady" is already wearing a coat). Point is that upon reading CE 1381, anyone can get a better understanding of who isn't a potential candidate for "ScarfLady" . Whatever is left, may bear further inquiry/research. But no sense in studying females viewing the presidential procession from upstairs, or some 30 feet away from the steps further out on the curb, or much further down the Elm Street slope, etc. when Mr. Altgen's snapped his famous picture.
10-07-2017, 05:55 AM (This post was last modified: 10-07-2017, 01:33 PM by LR Trotter.)
Alan Ford Wrote:
LR Trotter Wrote:
Alan Ford Wrote:Good evening, Mr. Trotter
I managed to review my CE 1381 notes earlier this evening. A couple of key points culled from that exercise: there was only one female within that historical record named "Sarah", so suffice it to say Mr. Frazier (Buell Wesley) wasn't talking about someone else when he detailed Sarah Stanton's physical description as heavy-set; and we both can clearly see "ScarfLady" isn't heavy-set.
Again, if I had to personally choose between Pauline Sanders (55) and Sarah Stanton (41) for being "ScarfLady" I'd choose Mrs. Sanders; however, her own FBI sworn statement shared above refutes this (asserting that she was already back inside and upstairs on the 2nd floor in her office long before the photo image of "ScarfLady" appears some 15-17 minutes later outside on the entrance landing.
I'm just as curious as you are about the actual identity of "ScarfLady". I've noted in the Martin and Hughes film that a shadowy figure appears just behind her. He is wearing a steel hat and a light clothing uniform of sorts. I believe this gentleman could be Howard Brennan, who confirmed that Oswald's clothes on the day of the assassination had not resembled those of the gunman he saw in the 6th floor window. Could the woman in question, "ScarfLady", have accompanied him to watch the parade that afternoon and simply joined him up on those steps while he was awaiting questioning from the DPD?
Any thoughts, ideas, Mr. Trotter? I'm open to learning. The truth is a good thing, something to treasure no matter its source. Enjoy the rest of your week should our electronic paths not cross again until this weekend. Carpe Diem!
If in fact you have made a conclusion as to the proper identification of "ScarfLady", just make your case. I made no request for you to work with me, nor do I need you to tell me what I see. You mentioned what BillyNolanLovelady might have said? And in this post you mentioned BuellWesleyFrazier talking about SarahDeanStanton. He also stated that he spoke to Sarah just after the assassination shooting at 12:30pm. So, she had to be there at that time, and could have stayed a few minutes and/or returned later. But, where was she?
​In any event, I stand by my thoughts as posted.
If in fact you have made a conclusion as to the proper identification of "ScarfLady", just make your case. I made no request for you to work with me, nor do I need you to tell me what I see. You mentioned what BillyNolanLovelady might have said? And in this post you mentioned BuellWesleyFrazier talking about SarahDeanStanton. He also stated that he spoke to Sarah just after the assassination shooting at 12:30pm. So, she had to be there at that time, and could have stayed a few minutes and/or returned later. But, where was she?
​In any event, I stand by my thoughts as posted.
Good afternoon, Mr. Trotter (at least here in New York)
In respect to coming to making a proper identification of "ScarfLady", I'm not so much coming to a conclusion as much as narrowing the field of candidates. Two women (Pauline Sanders and Sarah Stanton can be eliminated due to their own sworn-statements given to the FBI, where they shared they returned inside the building and headed upstairs to their offices 15-17 minutes before "ScarfLady" is captured on film (Martin and/or Hughes).
Moreover, Mr. Frazier (Buell Wesley) also eliminates Sarah Stanton as a candidate for "ScarfLady" as well, sharing the contrast differences in physical descriptions between the only Sarah on those steps that afternoon and "ScarfLady". He made it crystal clear that Sarah was "heavy-set".
In the following phototaken while shots were still being fired upon the presidential limousineBNL shared that it was he who was in the Altgen's 6 photo not Mr. Oswald, even buttressing his claim by noting the only female shading her eyes (a heavy-set woman who just so happens to work on the same floor as Sarah Stanton, who the research community knows was standing on those steps in close proximity with BNL, Mr. Frazier (Buell Wesley), Otis Williams, Bill Shelley and Pauline Sanders.
At the precise moment of this Altgen's picture, Every other female is accounted for… either upstairs viewing out their respective windows, or standing some 30 feet away from the steps out on the curb, or even further down the Elm Street slope. The only female standing near BNL that matches Mr. Frazier's description of Sarah Stanton is shading her eyes. No one viewing from upstairs transported themselves downstairs; no one standing 30 feet away from the steps out on the curb transported themselves backwards onto those steps; same goes for the females standing further down Elm Street's slope.
I do believe Mr. Frazier did speak to Sarah Stanton immediately following the triangular ambush of gunfire upon the presidential limousine, but I also believe her when she shared that she returned inside and upstairs in a timely manner way before the photo capturing "ScarfLady" is taken by different photographers.
In respect to the possibility of her returning later to the landing, Mr. Frazier's physical description alone rules her out as the much thinner "ScarfLady". Meanwhile, I'll make a good faith effort to return here possibly mid-week and share any new findings in respect to Sarah Stanton…I am actively on it…
That index page came up for me????? Don't see her in there.
There's lots of Dean's' at Boyd, but I don't see a Sarah.
Is the maiden name Dean or Stanton?
If you have time on your hands, Mr. Trotter, please consider reading the sworn-statements in CE 1381, where you will findamong other telling evidencethat the front doors were actually locked once the authorities arrived on the scene, leaving those already having retuned inside and those outside without access in or out. There was one female who had gone shopping on her lunch break, only to return to a locked door, leaving her no recourse but to wait until much later that afternoon to reenter the building and fetch her coat and belongings (because she said in her sworn FBI statement that she needed to get her coat I immediately ruled her out as "ScarfLady", because "ScarfLady" is already wearing a coat). Point is that upon reading CE 1381, anyone can get a better understanding of who isn't a potential candidate for "ScarfLady" . Whatever is left, may bear further inquiry/research. But no sense in studying females viewing the presidential procession from upstairs, or some 30 feet away from the steps further out on the curb, or much further down the Elm Street slope, etc. when Mr. Altgen's snapped his famous picture.
Enjoy the rest of your weekend and week ahead.
So, are you saying that the lady seen shading her eyes while standing on the lower step just after the JFK limousine drove past the TSBD is Ms SarahDeanStanton? The same person that BuellWesleyFrazier acknowledged talking to, on the landing, just seconds after the assassination shots were fired? Are you also saying that the Altgens picture taken from Elm St shows all occupants of the doorway area? If not, then what does the Altgens photograph have to do with this discussion that involves theTSBD stairs and landing for the Elm St entrance area occupants?
10-07-2017, 02:57 PM (This post was last modified: 10-07-2017, 04:28 PM by LR Trotter.)
​Quoted-Post 93 (Partial)-07/09/2017
[QUOTE=Alan Ford] Good evening, Mr. Trotter
If you have time on your hands, Mr. Trotter, please consider reading the sworn-statements in CE 1381, where you will findamong other telling evidencethat the front doors were actually locked once the authorities arrived on the scene, leaving those already having retuned inside and those outside without access in or out. There was one female who had gone shopping on her lunch break, only to return to a locked door, leaving her no recourse but to wait until much later that afternoon to reenter the building and fetch her coat and belongings (because she said in her sworn FBI statement that she needed to get her coat I immediately ruled her out as "ScarfLady", because "ScarfLady" is already wearing a coat). Point is that upon reading CE 1381, anyone can get a better understanding of who isn't a potential candidate for "ScarfLady" . Whatever is left, may bear further inquiry/research. But no sense in studying females viewing the presidential procession from upstairs, or some 30 feet away from the steps further out on the curb, or much further down the Elm Street slope, etc. when Mr. Altgen's snapped his famous picture. In response to Alan Ford,
The doors were actually locked at what time? When what authorities arrived on the scene? Leaving who outside, and who inside, without access in or out? What time was access allowed for TSBD building employees? Who is the one female that had gone shopping on her lunch break? What time did she return, and what time was she allowed access to the TSBD building to retrieve her coat and belongings? But yes, "ScarfLady" as seen, does appear to be wearing some type of coat, however while seeking her proper identification, I have not observed any indication requiring a need of "studying females viewing the presidential procession from upstairs, or some 30 feet away from the steps further out on the curb, or much further down the Elm Street slope, etc. when Mr. Altgens snapped his famous picture".
If the reference to Mr Altgens famous picture is the Altgens 6 Photograph, while a quite valuable tool for studying the fatal wounding of US President JFK and the serious wounding Texas Governor JBC, it contains very limited information concerning the proper identification of the occupants of the TSBD building doorway/entrance area.
I managed to review my CE 1381 notes earlier this evening. A couple of key points culled from that exercise: there was only one female within that historical record named "Sarah", so suffice it to say Mr. Frazier (Buell Wesley) wasn't talking about someone else when he detailed Sarah Stanton's physical description as heavy-set; and we both can clearly see "ScarfLady" isn't heavy-set.
Again, if I had to personally choose between Pauline Sanders (55) and Sarah Stanton (41) for being "ScarfLady" I'd choose Mrs. Sanders; however, her own FBI sworn statement shared above refutes this (asserting that she was already back inside and upstairs on the 2nd floor in her office long before the photo image of "ScarfLady" appears some 15-17 minutes later outside on the entrance landing.
I'm just as curious as you are about the actual identity of "ScarfLady". I've noted in the Martin and Hughes film that a shadowy figure appears just behind her. He is wearing a steel hat and a light clothing uniform of sorts. I believe this gentleman could be Howard Brennan, who confirmed that Oswald's clothes on the day of the assassination had not resembled those of the gunman he saw in the 6th floor window. Could the woman in question, "ScarfLady", have accompanied him to watch the parade that afternoon and simply joined him up on those steps while he was awaiting questioning from the DPD?
Any thoughts, ideas, Mr. Trotter? I'm open to learning. The truth is a good thing, something to treasure no matter its source. Enjoy the rest of your week should our electronic paths not cross again until this weekend. Carpe Diem!
If in fact you have made a conclusion as to the proper identification of "ScarfLady", just make your case. I made no request for you to work with me, nor do I need you to tell me what I see. You mentioned what BillyNolanLovelady might have said? And in this post you mentioned BuellWesleyFrazier talking about SarahDeanStanton. He also stated that he spoke to Sarah just after the assassination shooting at 12:30pm. So, she had to be there at that time, and could have stayed a few minutes and/or returned later. But, where was she?
​In any event, I stand by my thoughts as posted.
If in fact you have made a conclusion as to the proper identification of "ScarfLady", just make your case. I made no request for you to work with me, nor do I need you to tell me what I see. You mentioned what BillyNolanLovelady might have said? And in this post you mentioned BuellWesleyFrazier talking about SarahDeanStanton. He also stated that he spoke to Sarah just after the assassination shooting at 12:30pm. So, she had to be there at that time, and could have stayed a few minutes and/or returned later. But, where was she?
​In any event, I stand by my thoughts as posted.
Good afternoon, Mr. Trotter (at least here in New York)
In respect to coming to making a proper identification of "ScarfLady", I'm not so much coming to a conclusion as much as narrowing the field of candidates. Two women (Pauline Sanders and Sarah Stanton can be eliminated due to their own sworn-statements given to the FBI, where they shared they returned inside the building and headed upstairs to their offices 15-17 minutes before "ScarfLady" is captured on film (Martin and/or Hughes).
Moreover, Mr. Frazier (Buell Wesley) also eliminates Sarah Stanton as a candidate for "ScarfLady" as well, sharing the contrast differences in physical descriptions between the only Sarah on those steps that afternoon and "ScarfLady". He made it crystal clear that Sarah was "heavy-set".
In the following phototaken while shots were still being fired upon the presidential limousineBNL shared that it was he who was in the Altgen's 6 photo not Mr. Oswald, even buttressing his claim by noting the only female shading her eyes (a heavy-set woman who just so happens to work on the same floor as Sarah Stanton, who the research community knows was standing on those steps in close proximity with BNL, Mr. Frazier (Buell Wesley), Otis Williams, Bill Shelley and Pauline Sanders.
At the precise moment of this Altgen's picture, Every other female is accounted for… either upstairs viewing out their respective windows, or standing some 30 feet away from the steps out on the curb, or even further down the Elm Street slope. The only female standing near BNL that matches Mr. Frazier's description of Sarah Stanton is shading her eyes. No one viewing from upstairs transported themselves downstairs; no one standing 30 feet away from the steps out on the curb transported themselves backwards onto those steps; same goes for the females standing further down Elm Street's slope.
I do believe Mr. Frazier did speak to Sarah Stanton immediately following the triangular ambush of gunfire upon the presidential limousine, but I also believe her when she shared that she returned inside and upstairs in a timely manner way before the photo capturing "ScarfLady" is taken by different photographers.
In respect to the possibility of her returning later to the landing, Mr. Frazier's physical description alone rules her out as the much thinner "ScarfLady". Meanwhile, I'll make a good faith effort to return here possibly mid-week and share any new findings in respect to Sarah Stanton…I am actively on it…
That index page came up for me????? Don't see her in there.
There's lots of Dean's' at Boyd, but I don't see a Sarah.
Is the maiden name Dean or Stanton?
If you have time on your hands, Mr. Trotter, please consider reading the sworn-statements in CE 1381, where you will findamong other telling evidencethat the front doors were actually locked once the authorities arrived on the scene, leaving those already having retuned inside and those outside without access in or out. There was one female who had gone shopping on her lunch break, only to return to a locked door, leaving her no recourse but to wait until much later that afternoon to reenter the building and fetch her coat and belongings (because she said in her sworn FBI statement that she needed to get her coat I immediately ruled her out as "ScarfLady", because "ScarfLady" is already wearing a coat). Point is that upon reading CE 1381, anyone can get a better understanding of who isn't a potential candidate for "ScarfLady" . Whatever is left, may bear further inquiry/research. But no sense in studying females viewing the presidential procession from upstairs, or some 30 feet away from the steps further out on the curb, or much further down the Elm Street slope, etc. when Mr. Altgen's snapped his famous picture.
Enjoy the rest of your weekend and week ahead.
So, are you saying that the lady seen shading her eyes while standing on the lower step just after the JFK limousine drove past the TSBD is Ms SarahDeanStanton? The same person that BuellWesleyFrazier acknowledged talking to, on the landing, just seconds after the assassination shots were fired? Are you also saying that the Altgens picture taken from Elm St shows all occupants of the doorway area? If not, then what does the Altgens photograph have to do with this discussion that involves theTSBD stairs and landing for the Elm St entrance area occupants?
Given that Mr. Altgen's famous photo was snapped precisely when it was, that moment suspended in time only leaves six females eligible to be Sarah Stanton, all of which within their CE 1381 sworn statements placed themselves on the entrance stairs. The other options are Avery Davis, Ruth Dean, Judy McCully, Madie Reese, Pauline Sanders and, of course, Sarah Stanton herself. The same Sarah Stanton is heavy-set, who just so happens to work up on the 2nd floor, and is the only female in Altgen's 6 shading her eyes.
BNL told us that women shading her eyes works on the 2nd floor. Where does Sarah Stanton work? Yes, the 2nd floor. Mr. Frazier (Buell Wesley) already shared that that same women shading her eyes is heavy-set. "ScarfLady' is not heavy-set. That established, here's a volley for you, convince me though evidence that the heavy-set lady shading her eyes who just happens to work up on the 2nd floor is one of the only five possible options left (Avery Davis, Ruth Dean, Judy McCully, Madie Reese or Pauline Sanders).
In fairness to your time if you make a good faith effort, be advised that out of those five options other researchers, including the esteemed Linda Zambonini (sp), have already identified some of them. Moreover, in fairness to your time and effort, at least two of the aforementioned options do not work on the 2nd floor. Where have we heard reference to the 2nd floor before?
I await your evidence that shares that the heavy-set lady shading her eyes is either Avery Davis, Ruth Dean, Judy McCully, Madie Reese or Pauline Sanders. Enjoy your day.
10-07-2017, 08:38 PM (This post was last modified: 10-07-2017, 10:44 PM by LR Trotter.)
Alan Ford Wrote:
LR Trotter Wrote:
Alan Ford Wrote:
LR Trotter Wrote:If in fact you have made a conclusion as to the proper identification of "ScarfLady", just make your case. I made no request for you to work with me, nor do I need you to tell me what I see. You mentioned what BillyNolanLovelady might have said? And in this post you mentioned BuellWesleyFrazier talking about SarahDeanStanton. He also stated that he spoke to Sarah just after the assassination shooting at 12:30pm. So, she had to be there at that time, and could have stayed a few minutes and/or returned later. But, where was she?
​In any event, I stand by my thoughts as posted.
If in fact you have made a conclusion as to the proper identification of "ScarfLady", just make your case. I made no request for you to work with me, nor do I need you to tell me what I see. You mentioned what BillyNolanLovelady might have said? And in this post you mentioned BuellWesleyFrazier talking about SarahDeanStanton. He also stated that he spoke to Sarah just after the assassination shooting at 12:30pm. So, she had to be there at that time, and could have stayed a few minutes and/or returned later. But, where was she?
​In any event, I stand by my thoughts as posted.
Good afternoon, Mr. Trotter (at least here in New York)
In respect to coming to making a proper identification of "ScarfLady", I'm not so much coming to a conclusion as much as narrowing the field of candidates. Two women (Pauline Sanders and Sarah Stanton can be eliminated due to their own sworn-statements given to the FBI, where they shared they returned inside the building and headed upstairs to their offices 15-17 minutes before "ScarfLady" is captured on film (Martin and/or Hughes).
Moreover, Mr. Frazier (Buell Wesley) also eliminates Sarah Stanton as a candidate for "ScarfLady" as well, sharing the contrast differences in physical descriptions between the only Sarah on those steps that afternoon and "ScarfLady". He made it crystal clear that Sarah was "heavy-set".
In the following phototaken while shots were still being fired upon the presidential limousineBNL shared that it was he who was in the Altgen's 6 photo not Mr. Oswald, even buttressing his claim by noting the only female shading her eyes (a heavy-set woman who just so happens to work on the same floor as Sarah Stanton, who the research community knows was standing on those steps in close proximity with BNL, Mr. Frazier (Buell Wesley), Otis Williams, Bill Shelley and Pauline Sanders.
At the precise moment of this Altgen's picture, Every other female is accounted for… either upstairs viewing out their respective windows, or standing some 30 feet away from the steps out on the curb, or even further down the Elm Street slope. The only female standing near BNL that matches Mr. Frazier's description of Sarah Stanton is shading her eyes. No one viewing from upstairs transported themselves downstairs; no one standing 30 feet away from the steps out on the curb transported themselves backwards onto those steps; same goes for the females standing further down Elm Street's slope.
I do believe Mr. Frazier did speak to Sarah Stanton immediately following the triangular ambush of gunfire upon the presidential limousine, but I also believe her when she shared that she returned inside and upstairs in a timely manner way before the photo capturing "ScarfLady" is taken by different photographers.
In respect to the possibility of her returning later to the landing, Mr. Frazier's physical description alone rules her out as the much thinner "ScarfLady". Meanwhile, I'll make a good faith effort to return here possibly mid-week and share any new findings in respect to Sarah Stanton…I am actively on it…
That index page came up for me????? Don't see her in there.
There's lots of Dean's' at Boyd, but I don't see a Sarah.
Is the maiden name Dean or Stanton?
If you have time on your hands, Mr. Trotter, please consider reading the sworn-statements in CE 1381, where you will findamong other telling evidencethat the front doors were actually locked once the authorities arrived on the scene, leaving those already having retuned inside and those outside without access in or out. There was one female who had gone shopping on her lunch break, only to return to a locked door, leaving her no recourse but to wait until much later that afternoon to reenter the building and fetch her coat and belongings (because she said in her sworn FBI statement that she needed to get her coat I immediately ruled her out as "ScarfLady", because "ScarfLady" is already wearing a coat). Point is that upon reading CE 1381, anyone can get a better understanding of who isn't a potential candidate for "ScarfLady" . Whatever is left, may bear further inquiry/research. But no sense in studying females viewing the presidential procession from upstairs, or some 30 feet away from the steps further out on the curb, or much further down the Elm Street slope, etc. when Mr. Altgen's snapped his famous picture.
Enjoy the rest of your weekend and week ahead.
So, are you saying that the lady seen shading her eyes while standing on the lower step just after the JFK limousine drove past the TSBD is Ms SarahDeanStanton? The same person that BuellWesleyFrazier acknowledged talking to, on the landing, just seconds after the assassination shots were fired? Are you also saying that the Altgens picture taken from Elm St shows all occupants of the doorway area? If not, then what does the Altgens photograph have to do with this discussion that involves theTSBD stairs and landing for the Elm St entrance area occupants?
Given that Mr. Altgen's famous photo was snapped precisely when it was, that moment suspended in time only leaves six females eligible to be Sarah Stanton, all of which within their CE 1381 sworn statements placed themselves on the entrance stairs. The other options are Avery Davis, Ruth Dean, Judy McCully, Madie Reese, Pauline Sanders and, of course, Sarah Stanton herself. The same Sarah Stanton is heavy-set, who just so happens to work up on the 2nd floor, and is the only female in Altgen's 6 shading her eyes.
BNL told us that women shading her eyes works on the 2nd floor. Where does Sarah Stanton work? Yes, the 2nd floor. Mr. Frazier (Buell Wesley) already shared that that same women shading her eyes is heavy-set. "ScarfLady' is not heavy-set. That established, here's a volley for you, convince me though evidence that the heavy-set lady shading her eyes who just happens to work up on the 2nd floor is one of the only five possible options left (Avery Davis, Ruth Dean, Judy McCully, Madie Reese or Pauline Sanders).
In fairness to your time if you make a good faith effort, be advised that out of those five options other researchers, including the esteemed Linda Zambonini (sp), have already identified some of them. Moreover, in fairness to your time and effort, at least two of the aforementioned options do not work on the 2nd floor. Where have we heard reference to the 2nd floor before?
I await your evidence that shares that the heavy-set lady shading her eyes is either Avery Davis, Ruth Dean, Judy McCully, Madie Reese or Pauline Sanders. Enjoy your day.
Where and when does BillyNolanLovelady identify SarahDeanStanton as the lady standing on a lower step and shading her eyes while observing the JFK Motorcade at the time it passed the TSBD building Elm St entrance? Can you confirm any eyewitness placing SarahDeanStanton on a lower step at or near 12:30pm? Where is confirmation of BuellWesleyFrazier sharing his size estimate of the lady seen shading her eyes on a lower step? As I recall, he did testify that he was standing on the landing, in shadow, and talking to SarahStanton mere seconds after the shooting of JFK and JBC, and she was on the landing. There is also evidence placing PaulineRebmanSanders on the landing at the time, are you saying she was not there? Or, are you saying AveryDavis, RuthDean, JudyMcCully, MadieReese, along with MsSanders, were on the landing? I am not concerned about which floor anyone worked on, nor am I concerned about what may or may not be seen in Altgens 6. And, I make no claim to be a researcher, only a student of the research about the JFK Assassination. After careful study, I try to develop conclusions without reliance on any "esteemed or other researchers".
In any event, eyewitness testimony places Ms MadieReese on a lower step shading her eyes as the motorcade passes the TSBD, and Ms RuthDean is seen standing to her left. And, I am confident that Ms AveryDavis and Ms JudyMcCully can be located among the area occupants, as testimony places Ms PaulineSanders on the landing at the time. So, I have made a conclusion about ScarfLady's proper identification, as seen on film on the stairs/landing at about 12:45pm/12:50pm, and I stand by my thoughts as posted. If you are determined to disprove said conclusion, you need something other than assumptions accompanied by focus diversion.
For clarification, while I believe a probability exists that ScarfLady can be seen on film on the TSBD landing at about 12:30pm, I do not believe she can be seen on the Altgens 6 photograph. Nor do I believe Ms SarahStanton can be seen on Altgens 6.
It is well established that DPD MotorcycleOfficer MarrionLewisBaker, accompanying the JFK Motorcade on 11/22/'63, was northbound on Houston St approaching the turn to westbound Elm ST, as the shooting occurred in DealeyPlaza at 12:30pm (+/-), that caused the fatal wounding of US President JFK, and serious wounding of TX Governor JBC. After turning onto Elm St, Officer MLB stopped and parked his motorcycle near the beginning of the divider for the westbound Elm St thoroughfare and the Elm St extension, aka Old Elm St, that accessed the TSBD parking area/railroad access track. He then hurriedly crossed the Elm St extension to the stairs leading to the TSBD building entrance, soon to be followed inside by TSBD building superintendent RoySansomTruly, in an effort to begin searching the building.
Reportedly as, or about the same time MLB and RST entered the building, another employee at the TSBD, Ms GloriaLittleCalvery hurriedly returned to the entrance stairs/landing area and announced, to anyone that could hear her, what she had just witnessed while observing the JFK Limousine from Elm St, stating that the President had been shot. At that point, motorcade observer and employee at the TSBD, BuellWesleyFrazier, is said to have been asked by a lady named Sarah to repeat what GLC had said. BWF has stated that he is, and can be identified on film, standing on the doorway entrance landing soon after the shooting occurred, and can be seen seemingly looking to his right towards a lady standing in the shaded corner area, which indicates her to be Sarah.
Considering that eyewitnesses, including herself, placed an employee at the TSBD, Ms SarahDeanStanton on the stairway entrance landing as the JFK Motorcade arrived at and drove past the TSBD, and without anyone else named Sarah being indicated to be on or near the Elm St building entrance stairs/landing at or near 12:30pm CST, a strong indication exists that the lady identified by BWF as Sarah, is indeed Ms SarahDeanStanton. So, existing reliable evidence places SDS on the landing, west of the doorway, and to BWF's right at and/or very near the time of the assassination shooting. And, there does not appear to be any reliable evidence placing SDS elsewhere at the time.
This information itself is not, as of now, solid proof as to the proper identification of "ScarfLady". However, there appears to be some resemblance to be considered when viewing SDS on film at 12:30pm, compared to film(s) said to have been of the doorway steps/landing at 12:45pm/12:50pm, as a not properly id'd lady, aka "ScarfLady", steps up and onto the landing and then turns to her left and looks in the direction of BillyNolanLovelady, on a lower step. Another lady employed at the TSBD at the time, Ms PaulineRebmanSanders, also not properly identified, is evidently also on the top step/landing at 12:30pm. But, with the conversation between BWF and SDS being a strong indicator placing SDS where she is, added to somewhat of a resemblance to SL, and without any indication of resemblance of PRS to SL, the most probable candidate for SL remains SDS.
If I were allowed to ask one question at the LHO Mock Trial, I would most likely seek the proper identification of the lady, also referred to as "ScarfLady", seen, on film, stepping up and onto the TSBD Elm St entrance top step/landing some minutes, likely 10 to 30 minutes, after the shots were fired that fatally wounded JFK, Sr, and critically wounded JBC, Jr.
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