22-03-2017, 07:41 PM (This post was last modified: 22-03-2017, 08:11 PM by Tracy Riddle.)
I was trying to make this argument on the other thread and kept being called naive and gullible for "believing" the corporate media and the CIA. The outlines of this scandal have only gotten clearer to me in recent weeks, though a lot of details still need to be filled in. Essentially, Trump's business failures in the 1990s and inability to get loans from US banks forced him to turn to foreign banks (Deutsche Bank, Chinese banks), oligarchs, mobsters laundering money, etc. It probably began in the early-to-mid 2000s. There are some good timelines being put together:
We know that Trump is something of a Russophile (side note: so am I. I have quite a few books on Russian history in my library). We know he admires authoritarian regimes that "get stuff done." It's natural that he would move into the orbit of Russian oligarchs in the post-Yeltsin looting-of-Russia period of the 1990s, especially when American capital was no longer available to him. Trump makes trips to Russia, tries to make deals to build a tower. This doesn't happen because it's hard for foreigners to do anything like that in Russia. But while he's in Russia, he meets people (maybe also gets compromised with some females in a hotel room), finds ultra-rich Russians wanting to hide their money in American real estate. We know Trump was involved with Deutsche Bank, which was involved with Russian money-laundering.
It's not hard to see these relationships escalating gradually. When Trump got into the Presidential race, I don't think the Russians took it very seriously (like most of us). It wasn't until the fall of 2015 or spring of 2016 that they began to realize Trump could get the GOP nomination, so they began actively intervening on his behalf. The extent of the collusion during the campaign, if there was any, will hopefully be revealed.
I think we also need to reexamine RT and other sources (I've watched and read RT many times over the years), and begin to realize that Putin is using them as a forum for WESTERN dissidents to undermine and destabilize Western societies. I've never seen critics of Putin's regime on RT, just as I've never seen Wikileaks put out any secret Russian documents or stolen Putin emails.
Clinton-killer Comey sez the Trump 2016 campaign is under criminal and counter-intelligence investigation.
Dem House intel committee ranking member Adam Schiff sez there's direct & circumstantial evidence of collusion between Putin and Trump.
One of Trump's generals (National Security Advisor McMaster) sez we shouldn't use the phrase "radical Islamic terrorism" and another general (Sec. of Defense Mattis) is cool to massive increases in the military budget.
Trumpcare is going down in flames.
Trump's approval rating is around 37%.
Angela Merkel, the leader of the free world, tongue lashed the Trumpster so hard he sat there like a whupped dog and wouldn't shake her hand.
Tracy, you used the word's "Putin's playground" in the title. That implies a story line of a thoroughly compromised POTUS, Red Donald Trump, turning the US and even the world over to a voracious Putin led Russia? The CIA and the FBI are therefore on to this disaster and are trying to warn the American public?
"We'll know our disinformation campaign is complete when everything the American public believes is false." --William J. Casey, D.C.I
"We will lead every revolution against us." --Theodore Herzl
A timely FB post from Peter Dale Scott on this subject.
Yet another major independent writer joins the thriving throng that sees the CIA/Deep State's hostility to Trump to be driven by his desire to have friendly relations with Russia - a desire he notes, that Trump shared with JFK. He also sees links to the forced resignation of Nixon too.
I also note that PDF says: "But the abhorrence of Trump being expressed these days in the deep state media does indeed resemble the abhorrence of Kennedy in 1963 that Daniel Ellsberg observed in the Pentagon and I in the same period happened by chance to observe (as David Talbot notes in Devil's Chessboard, pp. 457-58) at a Hoover Institution dinner."
Move along folks, nothing to see here - the pubs are now open.
This important article draws attention to the problems of JFK and Trump with the deep state, noting, I think correctly, that "in both cases, the President's desire to have peace with Russia is at the heart of the conflict"
(There is one sentence in I it would want to see rephrased:
"But more important than any of this trivia, … is both men's opposition to the will of the Deep State, specifically in regards to Russia." The idea that the deep state has a single will is an over-simplification, indeed a reification, that is appearing everywhere; and I have tried hard to correct it.)
But the abhorrence of Trump being expressed these days in the deep state media does indeed resemble the abhorrence of Kennedy in 1963 that Daniel Ellsberg observed in the Pentagon and I in the same period happened by chance to observe (as David Talbot notes in Devil's Chessboard, pp. 457-58) at a Hoover Institution dinner.
There are many aspects to the developing story of Trump and Russia, ranging from questions about dubious bank connections to allegations about prostitutes. What is unmistakable is that both Russia and the US have behaved more aggressively towards each other, to a level not seen since the Cold War. Trump early on gave indications that he might move to reduce these tensions; and Flynn's conversation with the Russian ambassador was reportedly a step in this direction.
I intend in future to focus more on the Trump-Russia story. I hope we are not drifting into a new deep event one in which a sitting president's moves towards normalization with Russia could again turn out to be followed by a termination of that president's career. I am not just referring here (as Ravenwood does) to JFK, but also (as he does not) to Richard Nixon.
the article PDS linked to is below:
Quote:Trump, JFK, and the Deep State
JACK RAVENWOOD MARCH 14, 2017 3,800 WORDS 142 COMMENTS REPLY
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deep_politics
There's a lot of talk these days about the "Deep State," especially among supporters of President Trump, some of whom believe that this Deep State is working hard to destroy anyone loyal to Trump, both inside and outside of the government, and ultimately, Trump himself. General Flynn was forced to resign after a media scandal surrounding his contacts with Russian ambassadors a scandal which, by most accounts, was highly exaggerated. After Flynn's resignation, prominent neoconservative and NeverTrumper Bill Kristol tweeted:
More recently, Trump supporter Mike Cernovich was on InfoWars with Alex Jones claiming that the recent Milo Yiannopolis scandal was also a "Deep State operation."
The "Deep State" is aptly summed up by journalist Jefferson Morley in a recent article at Alternet:
"The Deep State is shorthand for the nexus of secretive intelligence agencies whose leaders and policies are not much affected by changes in the White House or the Congress. While definitions vary, the Deep State includes the CIA, NSA, Defense Intelligence Agency, and components of the State Department, Justice Department, Department of Homeland Security, and the armed forces."
Morley is well-qualified to write about the Deep State, as he is a veteran researcher on the JFK assassination, whose work on CIA agent George Joannides is one of the most important developments in that case in the last twenty years, as I previously wrote. The very term "deep state" was coined by Peter Dale Scott, a veteran researcher of the underbelly of American and world politics, and someone who, like Morley, has done important work on the JFK case.
The Playboy Presidents
Although liberals and leftists hate to admit it, there are incredible parallels between Trump and Kennedy. First, both men were independently wealthy when they ran for office, which meant that they were not as reliant upon special interest donations to fund their campaigns. Second, both men are known to have been quite fond of the ladies, their marriages to beautiful women notwithstanding. Trump was surreptitiously recorded by the media making lewd statements. JFK was recorded by J. Edgar Hoover in flagrante delicto on multiple occasions, and was reported to have once remarked to a visiting dignitary: "If I don't have a woman every three days or so I get a terrible headache."
When JFK assumed office, he appointed his younger brother Robert as Attorney General, a move that was widely criticized as nepotism. Trump works closely with his daughter Ivanka and son-in-law Jared Kushner, and is criticized in the same way. But more important than any of this trivia, which is on the level of the Kennedy-Lincoln coincidences, is both men's opposition to the will of the Deep State, specifically in regards to Russia.
JFK vs. the Deep State
Although Kennedy was elected in 1960 as a Cold Warrior, he moved away from a hardline stance almost immediately after being elected. In 1961, he refused to provide U.S. military support to the CIA's bungling Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba, something that many in the CIA never forgave him for.
In 1962, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, Kennedy negotiated peace with Russian leader Nikita Kruschev. This was against much of the advice coming from the Deep State, who estimated that, although the United States would lose 80% of its population in a thermonuclear war, the Russians would lose 100% of theirs. So, we would "win." Kennedy rightfully recognized this as sheer insanity.
At the same time that JFK was talking to Kruschev, CIA agent Bill Harvey was ordering raids on Cuba, in direct violation of Presidential directive, with the goal of provoking a missile launch by the Russians so as to start a war. When the crisis ended, Robert Kennedy had Harvey transferred out of the Western hemisphere so that he couldn't cause any more such trouble. Harvey never forgave the Kennedy brothers, and retained a bitter hatred of them for the rest of his life.
In 1963, just months before his death, President Kennedy gave an historic speech at American University, outlining a vision for peaceful coexistence between the United States and Russia. It featured prominently in Oliver Stone's film JFK, and is worth watching in its entirety.
Kennedy negotiated a peace with the Russians during the missile crisis, and at the time of his death, he was making overtures to Fidel Castro and also beginning to withdraw U.S. troops from Vietnam. Historians disagree about whether Kennedy was serious about peace with Cuba, as there were also plans for an all-out invasion of the island happening at the same time. But regarding Vietnam, more and more support for the notion that JFK would not have escalated the conflict has emerged since this thesis was first developed by Peter Dale Scott in the 1970s and then more extensively by John Newman in his 1992 book JFK and Vietnam.
Kennedy was a user of "back channels" for sensitive communications. In negotiating with the Soviets, messages were passed back and forth between "Soviet Ambassador Anatoly Dobrynin or other Soviet officials to other members of President Kennedy's official family." The overtures to Cuba were made through journalist Lisa Howard, and also through Ambassador William Attwood. Historian Michael Beschloss, in an article on the back channel talks in the New York Times, writes that "Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy worried that such talks would leak and embarrass his brother on the eve of his 1964 re-election campaign, but the president quietly encouraged Attwood to pursue the matter." The leaks of General Flynn's communications with the Russians, and their consequences, show that RFK's worries were well-founded.
Meanwhile, while JFK was using back channels to negotiate peace with the Russians and possibly with the Cubans as well, Lyndon Johnson had his own back channel to the Deep State. This is documented by John Newman in his aforementioned book, which has just been re-released in a second edition. Generals from the Joint Chiefs of Staff bypassed the President and communicated with the Vice-President instead, who was much more of a hawk on Vietnam than Kennedy was. It took Lyndon Johnson all of two days to reverse Kennedy's plans to withdraw from Vietnam. He is alleged to have said to the Joint Chiefs, "Just get me elected, and I'll give you your damn war."
Perhaps Hillary Clinton should have made a similar deal with the powers that be. Or perhaps she tried. As Glenn Greenwald, who can hardly be accused of being a right-wing Trump shill, recently said:
"The CIA and the intelligence community were vehemently in support of Clinton and vehemently opposed to Trump, from the beginning. And the reason was, was because they liked Hillary Clinton's policies better than they liked Donald Trump's. One of the main priorities of the CIA for the last five years has been a proxy war in Syria, designed to achieve regime change with the Assad regime. Hillary Clinton was not only for that, she was critical of Obama for not allowing it to go further, and wanted to impose a no-fly zone in Syria and confront the Russians. Donald Trump took exactly the opposite view. He said we shouldn't care who rules Syria; we should allow the Russians, and even help the Russians, kill ISIS and al-Qaeda and other people in Syria. So, Trump's agenda that he ran on was completely antithetical to what the CIA wanted. Clinton's was exactly what the CIA wanted, and so they were behind her. And so, they've been trying to undermine Trump for many months throughout the election. And now that he won, they are not just undermining him with leaks, but actively subverting him. There's claims that they're withholding information from him, on the grounds that they don't think he should have it and can be trusted with it. They are empowering themselves to enact policy."
As for Lyndon Johnson, he later came to have deep regrets about his decision to "give them their damn war." The unpopularity of the war, which split American society in two much in the way that Trump's election has, cost Johnson his reputation. He is reported to have said, in the White House, as anti-war protesters outside shouted, "Hey, hey, LBJ, how many kids did you kill today," "Don't they know that I'm with them?" But they didn't know because, however much he may have been with them in spirit, in deed he had allied himself with the Deep State and the military-industrial complex that President Eisenhower had warned against. In 1968, Johnson declined to run for re-election, certain that he would have lost. He lived the rest of his life as a recluse on his Texas ranch, growing his hair long like the hippies who protested against him. He died only five years later, in 1973, a broken and forlorn man.
The Left vs. the Deep State
There has been a lot scholarship and investigative reporting about the Deep State over the past decades, and most of it has come from the left. In the 1980s, Bill Moyers hosted a documentary called The Secret Government, which was based on revelations about the Deep State that had emerged during the Iran-Contra scandal. At that time, John Kerry was a Senator and was in charge of the investigation into Contragate and its associated crimes.
One of the things that they uncovered was massive CIA involvement with drug trafficking, something which was later investigated further by journalist Gary Webb, the subject of the 2014 movie Kill the Messenger. The only people who took Webb's allegations seriously at the time were people on the left, some of whom had known for years that certain people in the intelligence agencies were involved in the drug trade, because of works like Alfred McCoy's The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia and Peter Dale Scott's Cocaine Politics. Scott once remarked that "When the U.S. was involved in covert operations in southeast Asia in the 1960s and 1970s, we had a heroin epidemic on this continent. In the 1980s, when some of the same people were involved in a covert operation in Central America, we had a cocaine epidemic. That's not a coincidence."
But today, liberals and leftists who have historically been been opposed to the nefarious machinations of the Deep State find themselves in a strange situation, which seems to present itself as a choice between rooting for Trump, whom they loathe, and rooting for the cocaine-dealing, Kennedy-sniping CIA. Between a crack rock and a hard place, as it were. The left hates Trump because they think he's a racist and a tyrant. But those in the Deep State who oppose Trump do so not because they are champions of peace and equality, but because they want war with Russia and Iran, which will become World War 3 and will cost millions of lives and trillions of dollars.
So, is the enemy of your enemy your friend, no matter how fiendish?
Trump vs. the Deep State?
Peter Dale Scott, in a recent article adapted from his book The American Deep State, takes a nuanced approach in which he distinguishes between two factions within the Deep State, which have co-existed for a long time. He writes of
"an old division within Big Money roughly speaking, between those Trilateral Commission progressives, many flourishing from the new technologies of the global Internet, who wish the state to do more than at present about problems like wealth disparity, racial injustice and global warming, and those Heritage Foundation conservatives, many from finance and oil, who want it to do even less."
It is "an enduring struggle between "America Firsters" and "New World Order" globalists, pitting, through nearly all of this [20th] century, the industry-oriented (e.g. the National Association of Manufacturers) against the financial-oriented (e.g. the Council on Foreign Relations), two different sources of wealth."
This division within the wealthy elite also existed during the Kennedy years. At that time, right-wingers from the oil industry such as H.L. Hunt and Clint Murchison were some of the main proponents of the America First philosophy, against globalist organizations like the United Nations and the Council on Foreign Relations, which they thought were too communistic. Since communism is, by definition, an internationalist ideology, the right has long opposed all forms of globalism.
Since American industry and manufacturing were more powerful in the early 1960s than they are now, it follows that this America First wing of Big Money was more powerful and influential then. It is perhaps an irony that, while capitalism ultimately prevailed against communism in the great ideological battle of the 20th century, nonetheless it was New World Order globalism and not America First nationalism which prevailed in American governance.
In Scott's view, Trump is not an outsider or opponent of the Deep State, but rather a representative of this other wing of Big Money, which comes from manufacturing and, especially, from oil. Thus, the attacks on "the Party of Davos" the globalist wing of the ruling elite are not really populist in nature, but rather merely coming from the other wing of the same ruling elite.
When Russia Tried to Hack a U.S. Election with Fake News
Since JFK was a liberal whose views were more in line with the progressive wing of Big Money, he was most vigorously opposed by the America Firsters. Indeed, on the day of his assassination in Dallas, the son of H.L. Hunt had paid for a full page ad in the newspaper accusing Kennedy of treason. After the assassination, these same right-wing oilmen became prime suspects in the minds of many conspiracy theorists, because of their staunch opposition to Kennedy all throughout his presidency, and because of their close ties with the intelligence and defense industries.
The first book to accuse the entire Deep State of the crime (although that term did not yet exist) was a curious book called Farewell America. It was written pseudonymously under the name James Hepburn, and published in Europe in 1968 by a fake publishing company calling itself "Frontiers." It alleged that the assassination had been orchestrated by a "committee" made up of interests from big oil, the intelligence agencies, and the defense department. (It even insinuated that Roy Cohn, who worked for right-wing senator Joseph McCarthy and who later became a mentor to Donald Trump, might have had a hand in it somehow.)
Supporters of Farewell America claim that the book has its origins in a private investigation conducted on behalf of Robert and Jacqueline Kennedy by RFK confidantes and by sources in French intelligence. As author Gus Russo tells the story:
"At that time, [Robert] Kennedy said, I just can't believe that guy [Oswald] acted alone. I'm going to contact someone independent of this government to get to the bottom of this.' Bobby then contacted a lifelong friend of the Kennedy family, then working in Britain's intelligence agency, known as MI6. The friendship dated back to the days when Papa Joe Kennedy was the US Ambassador to England. Undertaking this highly secretive mission, the MI6 agent contacted two French intelligence operatives who proceeded to conduct, over a three year period, a quiet investigation that involved hundreds of interviews in the United States. One agent was the head of the French Secret Service, Andre Ducret. The second was known only as "Philippe" believed to be Philippe Vosjoly, who was a former French Intelligence Chief in the United States. Over the years, Ducret and Philippe hired men to infiltrate the Texas oil industry, the CIA, and Cuban mercenary groups in Florida. Their report, replete with innuendo about Lyndon Johnson and right-wing Texas oil barons, was delivered to Bobby Kennedy only months before his own assassination in June of 1968."
But detractors of Farewell America say, au contraire, that the whole thing was a hoax by the KGB, designed to stoke fear and diminish trust in American institutions and the country's elite.
In his memoir If You Have A Lemon, Make Lemonade, New Left publisher Warren Hinckle recounts how Farewell America may have had its origin in District Attorney Jim Garrison (the subject of Oliver Stone's JFK) and his decision to approach the KGB for any information they might have on the CIA and its involvement in the Kennedy assassination. Garrison sent an envoy to the Soviets at their Mexico City embassy the same one that Lee Oswald allegedly visited only months before the assassination to see if the Russian spies would be interested in ratting out their American opponents. The Russians said that this might be possible, but if it were to happen, it would be in a way that was untraceable to them. A few months later, the manuscript of Farewell America showed up at Garrison's office. When inquiries were made as to its sources, the trail led back to the French SDECE, which, in Hinckle's words, "was so notoriously, and almost hilariously, riddled with KGB double agents that as a matter of course Frenchmen were offered vodka before wine at international spy gatherings."
That the KGB did take an interest in promoting JFK conspiracy theories for this purpose was later confirmed by KGB defector Vasili Mitrokhin in his book The Sword and the Shield.
It seemed that part of the purpose of Farewell America was to influence the 1968 election in favor of Robert Kennedy, who was praised alongside his late brother, while Lyndon Johnson and virtually the entire rest of the American establishment was vilified. The book likened the Kennedy brothers to the Roman Grachii and their fight against corruption in the Roman Republic. But when Bobby Kennedy was himself gunned down that year, the promotion of Farewell America was abandoned, and the English language version of the book was left to rot in a Canadian warehouse for decades. It is now a collector's item, known for it's notoriously poor binding, which splits apart as soon as one opens the book.
The More Things Change …
Of course, history doesn't repeat so much as it rhymes, as Mark Twain supposedly observed. This time, it's not the right-wing America First Deep State fighting the liberal President, but rather the globalist "progressive" Deep State fighting the right-wing America First President. But in both cases, the President's desire to have peace with Russia is at the heart of the conflict.
To his supporters, Trump is a champion of the people, a Caesar fighting against a corrupt elite, and against the enemies of the Republic both at home and abroad. To his detractors, Trump is a fraud, a billionaire who only feigns allegiance to the working class, and who like Caesar has dictatorial ambitions. That such disparate views of the same man can co-exist within the populace is partly testament to the deep division within American society, and partly to the effect of a multiplicity of media, such that different ideologies can stay locked inside their echo chambers, never having any real contact outside of them.
Then again, even JFK, that relic of a simpler, greater time that Trump harks back to, has his different versions. To some, like Oliver Stone and Jim Douglass, he is a hero and a martyr for peace, murdered by the Deep State because he dared to stand up to them. To others, like Noam Chomsky, he was a warmonger and a mediocre President, as subservient to power and money as any other, who was lucky to be struck down by an assassin's bullets before he could be struck down by scandal.
Trump's recent clash with the CIA certainly brings to mind JFK's confrontation with them after the Bay of Pigs. After privately accusing the CIA of lying to him and giving him false information, he fired Director Allen Dulles and Deputy Directors Charles Cabell and Richard Bissell. He said that he would like to "smash the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter them to the winds."
Trump almost certainly understands how his predecessor felt. In addition to the leaks of the Flynn communications, recent reports indicate that the agency is deliberately withholding information from him. In a visit to CIA headquarters in January, Trump said to the employees gathered there that maybe he would build them a new room, built "by someone who knows how to build. And we won't have columns do you understand that?" Though this was unsurprisingly ignored by the media, his meaning was clear to anyone who knows what a "fifth column" is.
It's tough talk, but it remains to be seen what will come of it.
* * *
Addendum: One thing that hopefully will come of it is that President Trump will oversee the release of the last remaining secret government documents that pertain to the Kennedy assassination, which are scheduled to be released in October of this year except in the event of a petition from the CIA to keep them secret, which is what everyone is expecting to happen. The classified documents consist of "1,100 files concerning the likes of CIA officials Bill Harvey, Howard Hunt, David Phillips, David Morales, Ann Goodpasture, and George Joannides, as well as the surveillance operations that picked up on Lee Harvey Oswald as he made his way from Moscow to Minsk to Fort Worth to New Orleans to Mexico City to Dallas."
Explaining who these individuals are and why these files are important to history would require, at minimum, a separate and very long article. But what virtually everyone agrees on at this point, even those who believe that Lee Harvey Oswald was a lone assassin, is that the CIA and the federal government engaged in a massive cover-up after the event, and the murder was never properly investigated. Explanations as to why this happened vary, with some believing that the feds were merely trying to cover their asses and avoid exposure of some of their more unseemly activities, like wiretapping Kennedy's mistresses, or partnering with the mafia and trying to kill Fidel Castro. Others, however, believe that the CIA in particular has long been hiding something more sinister. Their collective behavior in stonewalling and deceiving the House Select Committee on Assassinations in the 1970s certainly invites such a conclusion.
But regardless of what's in those files, and regardless of who really killed JFK, Trump should make the CIA release those records. At this point, isn't the mere fact that the agency doesn't want to do it a good enough reason for the President to somehow force their hand?
However, it should go without saying that there will be no smoking gun, no master key that unlocks the great unknown. One of the problems inherent in the study of the JFK assassination is that looking into it opens a Pandora's box of historical mysteries and uncertainties, all interconnected in shadowy, intriguing ways, which nonetheless never offer of themselves a definitive understanding. This lure of an ever-elusive truth, like a mirage receding into the distance, has been the death of more than one journalistic career, such that writers now are cautioned away from the case as if it were hard drugs, or the abyss that Nietzsche warned of when you peer into it, the Deep State looks back at you.
Click on the link to view the original images relative to the article.
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
Lauren Johnson Wrote:Tracy, you used the word's "Putin's playground" in the title. That implies a story line of a thoroughly compromised POTUS, Red Donald Trump, turning the US and even the world over to a voracious Putin led Russia? The CIA and the FBI are therefore on to this disaster and are trying to warn the American public?
Lauren, don't read too much into my snarky sense of humor. But Putin has obviously mastered a very low-cost way of sowing chaos in Western democracies by feeding junk news stories into social media (i documented some of that in another thread, Fake News for the Win).
I don't understand this argument that because the CIA and FBI have a bad history, it means that anyone on the "other side" must be trusted and defended. Listen, I don't trust the CIA, the FBI, Putin, Trump, the Clintons, the oligarchs (American or Russian), the media (mainstream or alternative)...I think for myself. I'm pretty damn good at putting together a general outline of what's going on using all available sources of information.
On a completely unrelated note, just to point out again how dangerously BATSHIT CRAZY Trump is, here is the latest from a new interview with Time magazine:
-Trump stands by bringing up the conspiracy theory that linked Ted Cruz's father with Kennedy assassin Lee Harvey Oswald. When Time brought up Trump's past embrace of a conspiracy theory linking Cruz's father and Oswald, Trump said he was just quoting a reputable news source about the matter a.k.a., the National Enquirer.[/FONT] "That was in a newspaper," he said. "No, no, I like Ted Cruz, he's a friend of mine. But that was in the newspaper. I wasn't, I didn't say that. I was referring to a newspaper. A Ted Cruz article referred to a newspaper story with, had a picture of Ted Cruz, his father, and Lee Harvey Oswald, having breakfast."[/FONT]
Have any of us ever seen a photo of Oswald eating breakfast with anyone? I never have, and I think I've seen every photo of the guy that's ever been made public. This is not the first time Trump has told this "having breakfast with Oswald" story. He's completely fucking crazy, and yes, the adults need to call Melania to take him back to his golden toilet in Trump Tower. This man cannot be anywhere near the authority to use nuclear weapons.
Seriously, David?? These attempts to link JFK and Trump are pathetic and fantastically absurd. Trump is a narcissistic, sociopathic, pathological liar, an ignoramus who doesn't read books and gets his information about the world from Fox News. JFK was one of the most intelligent, thoughtful, well-read men ever to occupy the Oval Office. The man had class and dignity, a real education, experience in combat, and a depth of character (aside from his weakness for women). JFK's interviews and speeches are still models of how a President should act. He did not like war, as Trump has said he does. He did not want to surround himself with generals and oilmen and Wall Street cronies as Trump does. He did not admire authoritarian rulers. He was not a bully and a thug.
Kennedy passed around copies of Barbara Tuchman's Guns of August for everyone to read. Do you think Trump even fucking knows who Tuchman is?
Trump is interested in beauty queens and real estate, being famous, hanging around with professional wrestlers, boxers, rappers and other bottom-feeding celebrities. His education was limited to business school. He talks about himself constantly. He stayed out of Vietnam because of a bad foot which has never bothered him since. He is a piece of crap, and those who compare him favorably to John F. Kennedy have completely discredited themselves in my eyes.
23-03-2017, 05:54 PM (This post was last modified: 24-03-2017, 02:16 AM by Lauren Johnson.)
Tracy Riddle Wrote:Seriously, David?? These attempts to link JFK and Trump are pathetic and fantastically absurd. Trump is a narcissistic, sociopathic, pathological liar, an ignoramus who doesn't read books and gets his information about the world from Fox News. JFK was one of the most intelligent, thoughtful, well-read men ever to occupy the Oval Office. The man had class and dignity, a real education, experience in combat, and a depth of character (aside from his weakness for women). JFK's interviews and speeches are still models of how a President should act. He did not like war, as Trump has said he does. He did not want to surround himself with generals and oilmen and Wall Street cronies as Trump does. He did not admire authoritarian rulers. He was not a bully and a thug.
Kennedy passed around copies of Barbara Tuchman's Guns of August for everyone to read. Do you think Trump even fucking knows who Tuchman is?
Trump is interested in beauty queens and real estate, being famous, hanging around with professional wrestlers, boxers, rappers and other bottom-feeding celebrities. His education was limited to business school. He talks about himself constantly. He stayed out of Vietnam because of a bad foot which has never bothered him since. He is a piece of crap, and those who compare him favorably to John F. Kennedy have completely discredited themselves in my eyes.
David is not comparing JFK with Trump in any way other than that they both opposed globalist power. JFK did it many ways including stopping the imperialist agendas, limiting the power of the Fed, tearing up the CIA into a thousand pieces, etc. All this you know. David is suggesting that Trump could get himself offed by even his relatively mild opposition to the Octopus.
Me? I think the power struggle in Washington is more like an episode of The Sopranos. Trump wants to muscle in and get a bigger slice of the pie establishing the Trump family as one of the "great" American families. The CIA/FBI are centrally dedicated to maintaining and advancing the global agenda.
Frankly, I gave him a small chance for being a true nationalist. Not any longer. He's just a thug. It's just that some thugs speak Russia, many more do not.
Finally, I hope you watch the video I listed above in that it is a glimpse into other tentacles of The Octopus.
"We'll know our disinformation campaign is complete when everything the American public believes is false." --William J. Casey, D.C.I
"We will lead every revolution against us." --Theodore Herzl
Tracy Riddle Wrote:Seriously, David?? These attempts to link JFK and Trump are pathetic and fantastically absurd. Trump is a narcissistic, sociopathic, pathological liar, an ignoramus who doesn't read books and gets his information about the world from Fox News. JFK was one of the most intelligent, thoughtful, well-read men ever to occupy the Oval Office. The man had class and dignity, a real education, experience in combat, and a depth of character (aside from his weakness for women). JFK's interviews and speeches are still models of how a President should act. He did not like war, as Trump has said he does. He did not want to surround himself with generals and oilmen and Wall Street cronies as Trump does. He did not admire authoritarian rulers. He was not a bully and a thug.
Kennedy passed around copies of Barbara Tuchman's Guns of August for everyone to read. Do you think Trump even fucking knows who Tuchman is?
Trump is interested in beauty queens and real estate, being famous, hanging around with professional wrestlers, boxers, rappers and other bottom-feeding celebrities. His education was limited to business school. He talks about himself constantly. He stayed out of Vietnam because of a bad foot which has never bothered him since. He is a piece of crap, and those who compare him favorably to John F. Kennedy have completely discredited themselves in my eyes.
::face.palm::
Direct your rant at Peter Dale Scott Tracy. It's his comments I posted. He's on FB and you can friend him there and let rip. Let him sagely interact with your and Cliff's trolling your partisan diatribes and your desperate need to project your respective Shadow's.
Meanwhile, be aware that DPF is not, repeat not, a psychiatrist's couch for either of you to engage in free therapy sessions.
And as I've mentioned before, this is not a political forum but a deep political forum - and while we offer some latitude and a good degree of patience, it is an in-built requirement of members to have a "deep" political perspective on all issues. Not just plain vanilla and partisan ones. For those who need to rant and engage in general knuckle dragging knockabout there are other fora available.
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
Tracy Riddle Wrote:Seriously, David?? These attempts to link JFK and Trump are pathetic and fantastically absurd. Trump is a narcissistic, sociopathic, pathological liar, an ignoramus who doesn't read books and gets his information about the world from Fox News. JFK was one of the most intelligent, thoughtful, well-read men ever to occupy the Oval Office. The man had class and dignity, a real education, experience in combat, and a depth of character (aside from his weakness for women). JFK's interviews and speeches are still models of how a President should act. He did not like war, as Trump has said he does. He did not want to surround himself with generals and oilmen and Wall Street cronies as Trump does. He did not admire authoritarian rulers. He was not a bully and a thug.
Kennedy passed around copies of Barbara Tuchman's Guns of August for everyone to read. Do you think Trump even fucking knows who Tuchman is?
Trump is interested in beauty queens and real estate, being famous, hanging around with professional wrestlers, boxers, rappers and other bottom-feeding celebrities. His education was limited to business school. He talks about himself constantly. He stayed out of Vietnam because of a bad foot which has never bothered him since. He is a piece of crap, and those who compare him favorably to John F. Kennedy have completely discredited themselves in my eyes.
::face.palm::
Direct your rant at Peter Dale Scott Tracy. It's his comments I posted. He's on FB and you can friend him there and let rip. Let him sagely interact with your and Cliff's trolling your partisan diatribes and your desperate need to project your respective Shadow's.
Meanwhile, be aware that DPF is not, repeat not, a psychiatrist's couch for either of you to engage in free therapy sessions.
And as I've mentioned before, this is not a political forum but a deep political forum - and while we offer some latitude and a good degree of patience, it is an in-built requirement of members to have a "deep" political perspective on all issues. Not just plain vanilla and partisan ones. For those who need to rant and engage in general knuckle dragging knockabout there are other fora available.
Yes, I realize that Scott wrote those words, and you obviously agree with them. I'm not on Fakebook either, so stop telling me to go to it to ask people questions. And I've already told you that I'm not a Democrat. I actually used to be a Republican 20+ years ago, then became an independent. This is not about partisanship. If Trump was a Democrat today (which he used to be years ago), I would feel the same way about him.
David writes: "DPF is not, repeat not, a psychiatrist's couch for either of you to engage in free therapy sessions."
And just before that he wrote: "your desperate need to project your respective Shadow's"
Oh, if the bots were only here to help me snark this bad movie!
