"Clearly Dawn, you have no clue. I wonder, how many more folks there are that make up you?" writes Scott.
Is this a sentence? Are you implying that I am a more than one person? You have one card to play. Kennedy hating Cubans. You worship them. I do not read what you post because trying to wade through your impossible grammar was not worth trying.
So I am exiting this conversation. You can have the last word. And it's now gone fully off topic. But that seems to be your game.
04-04-2017, 03:09 AM (This post was last modified: 04-04-2017, 07:57 AM by Jim DiEugenio.)
SK: The signature conversation at the horse track, the dark and mysterious conversation on the park bench, the ever so popular meeting in the hotel room.
Recall what I said about the use of dramatic license.
1. The first conversations with Jack Martin occurred in Garrison's office.These were absolutely integral to Garrison's understanding of the elements he was about to confront. Because although he found out about Banister's office, he knew very little about who was there besides him. Martin tipped him off to not only Ferrie, who stemmed back to his 1963 inquiry, but also Sergio Arcacha Smith, who proved the lead to the anti Castro Cubans. Martin's information was very broad and deep since he even knew how SAS came to America. Via a Navy plane.
2. These conversations with Prouty took place after the trial of Clay Shaw and they were mostly done via snail mail. But Garrison got much of the same info through Nagell. Who he actually did meet with in a park.
3. That discussion with Ferrie was actually between Ivon and Ferrie. Ferrie did trust Lou. The best rendition I have seen of it is in The Book of the Film.
If you read Garrison's Playboy interview, its pretty clear that he thought that Kennedy was killed because of his overall foreign policy, and how this was a change from previous administrations. Stone's movie, since it used John Newman's book as a source, focuses more on the Vietnam issue. In fact, Newman wrote those scenes and acted in one of them.
As per LBJ, the idea is that through his escalation of the war, his lifelong backers back in Texas, Brown and Root, profited tremendously, as did the Pentagon. When the film quotes him as saying to the generals, "Just get me elected and I will give you your war", that is an accurate quote, from Karnow. And it came true. Right after the 1964 inauguration, Johnson landed troops at DaNang. And as Newman shows in his book, LBJ was working with the generals since 1961 to get combat troops in theater, something JFK vehemently opposed.
As per Nixon: RMN and Kissinger continued the war for four years, KNOWING IT COULD NOT BE WON! They got that info from Abrams in 1969, who had replaced Westmoreland. Knowing it could not be won, they expanded the war into Laos and Cambodia, in a way that was simply unprecedented. The bombings and invasions of those countries was simply unconscionable. They cannot be justified in any way, politically or militarily. Since as Thieu later commented in the book The Palace File, there was no significant difference between the agreement Kissinger finalized in 1972 and the one he was offered in 1969-70. So what was the expansion into those countries all about then? And we all know what happened to Cambodia. One of the worst genocides per capita in history.
In a buried kind of way, the reason for Nixon's fall is his secret attempt to sandbag LBJ's peace negotiations in 1968--which he lied about at the time. Nixon knew that LBJ had the goods on him for this interference. And he thought the files were at Brookings. So, with the help of Colson, he put together the Plumbers Unit to firebomb the place and bring the Plumbers in behind a firetruck to steal the docs. But they actually were not there. Walt Rostow took that file with him and then submitted it to the LBJ library where Bob Parry found it decades later.
In a roundabout way, Vietnam was the cause of Nixon's fall.
3. That discussion with Ferrie was actually between Ivon and Ferrie. Ferrie did trust Lou. The best rendition I have seen of it is in The Book of the Film.
Are you talking about the "I am a dead man" scene in the movie?
On Turner Classic Movies Ben Mankiewicz said the studio would not give Sinatra permission to do 'Manchurian Candidate' because it was too inflammatory. He said Sinatra called JFK who had read the book and told him of his problem and soon after the studio produced the film...
No, I am talking about the later scene in the hotel room where he spills the beans on his working for the CIA and also Shaw having a covert security clearance--which he actually did have. He ends up collapsing due to nervous exhaustion.
I should add, that Bill Davy also talked to Ivon about that scene and its in his book, Let Justice be Done.
07-04-2017, 04:10 AM (This post was last modified: 07-04-2017, 04:37 AM by Scott Kaiser.)
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:SK: The signature conversation at the horse track, the dark and mysterious conversation on the park bench, the ever so popular meeting in the hotel room.
Recall what I said about the use of dramatic license.
1. The first conversations with Jack Martin occurred in Garrison's office.These were absolutely integral to Garrison's understanding of the elements he was about to confront. Because although he found out about Banister's office, he knew very little about who was there besides him. Martin tipped him off to not only Ferrie, who stemmed back to his 1963 inquiry, but also Sergio Arcacha Smith, who proved the lead to the anti Castro Cubans. Martin's information was very broad and deep since he even knew how SAS came to America. Via a Navy plane.
2. These conversations with Prouty took place after the trial of Clay Shaw and they were mostly done via snail mail. But Garrison got much of the same info through Nagell. Who he actually did meet with in a park.
3. That discussion with Ferrie was actually between Ivon and Ferrie. Ferrie did trust Lou. The best rendition I have seen of it is in The Book of the Film.
If you read Garrison's Playboy interview, its pretty clear that he thought that Kennedy was killed because of his overall foreign policy, and how this was a change from previous administrations. Stone's movie, since it used John Newman's book as a source, focuses more on the Vietnam issue. In fact, Newman wrote those scenes and acted in one of them.
As per LBJ, the idea is that through his escalation of the war, his lifelong backers back in Texas, Brown and Root, profited tremendously, as did the Pentagon. When the film quotes him as saying to the generals, "Just get me elected and I will give you your war", that is an accurate quote, from Karnow. And it came true. Right after the 1964 inauguration, Johnson landed troops at DaNang. And as Newman shows in his book, LBJ was working with the generals since 1961 to get combat troops in theater, something JFK vehemently opposed.
As per Nixon: RMN and Kissinger continued the war for four years, KNOWING IT COULD NOT BE WON! They got that info from Abrams in 1969, who had replaced Westmoreland. Knowing it could not be won, they expanded the war into Laos and Cambodia, in a way that was simply unprecedented. The bombings and invasions of those countries was simply unconscionable. They cannot be justified in any way, politically or militarily. Since as Thieu later commented in the book The Palace File, there was no significant difference between the agreement Kissinger finalized in 1972 and the one he was offered in 1969-70. So what was the expansion into those countries all about then? And we all know what happened to Cambodia. One of the worst genocides per capita in history.
In a buried kind of way, the reason for Nixon's fall is his secret attempt to sandbag LBJ's peace negotiations in 1968--which he lied about at the time. Nixon knew that LBJ had the goods on him for this interference. And he thought the files were at Brookings. So, with the help of Colson, he put together the Plumbers Unit to firebomb the place and bring the Plumbers in behind a firetruck to steal the docs. But they actually were not there. Walt Rostow took that file with him and then submitted it to the LBJ library where Bob Parry found it decades later.
In a roundabout way, Vietnam was the cause of Nixon's fall.
Albert says,
Quote:Are you talking about the "I am a dead man" scene in the movie?
The first person to have used that saying "I am a dead man" was Frank Strugis to Andrew St. George, secondly, Clay Shaw, David Ferre and that whole bunch of cast of characters in New Orleans was all smoke and mirrors to disguise those who were really involved, why do you suppose there never was any big push to investigate the assassination plot on Jack in Miami? Many folks know about the plot by hearing about it, or heard it somewhere from someone, but, not very many can tell me where, when or how the assassination were to take place.
That hotel scene was really a nice and fancy touch wouldn't you say? The park bench and horse track meetings added some thought provocative senses, however, I will tell you that the compartmentalizing groups, members of JURE, Accion Cubana, Brigade 2506 and DRE, these groups would later birth many of these other groups whose members worked with past and present groups and created Alpha66, MRR, the Golden Hawks, CU and Omega7.
Ed Kaiser tells Howard Liebengood, "there's more than 500 groups," well, how would he know at that time period if he didn't belong to a few of them himself.
They all worked together, only the ones who could really be trusted survived, those who "knew to much" had to be eliminated.
Quote:If you read Garrison's Playboy interview, its pretty clear that he thought that Kennedy was killed because of his overall foreign policy
Garrison was correct about the [foreign policy,] however, he, Garrison along with Karnow, Abrams and Newman all concluded the hit was over Vietnam, do you really think those boys cared about Communism half way around world when they wanted to fight it right here, in their own backyard, and just 90 miles away from home? But, what would that have done by invading Cuba? Russia, in order not to lose face over an island Russia vowed to protect, they would have gotten themselves involved had the United States invaded Cuba, therefore, WWIII would have happened, everyone seems to leave that part out.
As for your comment hinting at Watergate, I leave no stone un-turned, no conspiracy un-covered, and expose Watergate for what it really was, a well oiled, fundraising establishment for the elite.
Watergate was a temporary, corporate, profitable, fund raising ponzi scheme, however, no democratic senator or US president would receive a return on their investment.
07-04-2017, 04:35 AM (This post was last modified: 07-04-2017, 07:11 PM by Jim DiEugenio.)
New Orleans was all smoke and mirrors?
Wasn't Oswald there for about six months in the summer of 1963?
Was not all that press material he accumulated there used to convict him in the public mind?
Ferrie drove to Houston in a driving rainstorm on the day of the assassination, and Shaw called Dean Andrews to defend Oswald, and Banister put Martin in the hospital for implying he saw Oswald in his office that summer.
Or maybe you think Ferrie actually went to Houston and Galveston to ice skate and shot geese.
07-04-2017, 04:40 AM (This post was last modified: 07-04-2017, 04:56 AM by Scott Kaiser.)
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:New Orleans was all smoke and mirrors?
Wasn't Oswald there for about six months in the summer of 1963?
Was not all that press material he accumulated there used to convict him n the public mind?
Ferrie drove to Houston in a driving rainstorm on the day of the assassination, and Shaw called Dean Andrews to defend Oswald, and Banister put Martin in the hospital for implying the saw Oswald in his office that summer.
Or maybe you think Ferrie actually went to Houston and Galveston to ice skate and shot geese.
Yes, Oswald was there, and that's, meaning, that is what makes New Orleans [smoke & mirrors] that's kept everyone, including (you) chasing after nothing, and it's because Oswald was there that made N.O nothing more than smoke and mirrors, kinda like Mexico. I've said enough, and opened my big fat mouth for the night, I'm going to sleep now.
The best explanation for the seemingly clueless contradictions, omissions, and oversights too obvious to be ignored but were anyway..... this is all a contrivance, a cooperative production... actually no sides in opposition.
Willard organized and funded INCA, Willard organized and funded Truth or Consequences.
I begin with Willard's former father-in-law's 1971 obit, and then a page from a memo by CIA assistant counsel....Lloyd Ray believed N.O.C.C. to more secure than his own DCS office ????? Really ?
Burke and Gossom knew each other at least since 1924.... Willard was of New Hampshire, a man who migrated with his former wife and two children from New Haven to NOLA in 1947.
Willard knew no one, until he hired Gossom's young daughter Marie in 1949 as secretary of the new southern division of Steelcraft Boat Co.
Peter Janney's uncle was Frank Pace, chairman of General Dynamics who enlisted law partners Roswell Gilpatric and Luce's brother-in-law, Maurice "Tex" Moore, in a trade of 16 percent of Gen. Dyn. stock in exchange for Henry Crown and his Material Service Corp. of Chicago, headed by Byfield's Sherman Hotel group's Pat Hoy. The Crown family and partner Conrad Hilton next benefitted from TFX, at the time, the most costly military contract award in the history of the world. Obama was sponsored by the Crowns and Pritzkers. So was Albert Jenner Peter Janney has preferred to write of an imaginary CIA assassination of his surrogate mother, Mary Meyer, but not a word about his Uncle Frank.
Tom Scully Wrote:The best explanation for the seemingly clueless contradictions, omissions, and oversights too obvious to be ignored but were anyway..... this is all a contrivance, a cooperative production... actually no sides in opposition.
Willard organized and funded INCA, Willard organized and funded Truth or Consequences.
The best deep political summary of the Garrison investigation yet advanced. Keep going.
"There are three sorts of conspiracy: by the people who complain, by the people who write, by the people who take action. There is nothing to fear from the first group, the two others are more dangerous; but the police have to be part of all three,"
