Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Max Holland and Donald Carpenter vs Jim Garrison and the ARRB
#61
and committee counsel Michael Goldsmith (Classified Testimony of John Scelso May 16 1978)

After Scelso (real name John Whitten) had called William K. Harvey at "thug", excoriated him for having criminals on retainer for assassinations and speculating that he had been involved in the murder of "Giancomo" (Giancana?) he is asked the following question:

Quote:Mr. Goldsmith. Harvey instructed his wife that after his own death his wife should burn all of his papers. Do you have any idea what would be in those papers that Mr. Harvey would be so interested to conceal?

Scelso answers:

Quote:Mr. Scelso. He was too young to have assassinated McKinley and Lincoln. It could have been anything. His wife, by the way, I always though was a very fine person. She was a remarkable woman. I am probably doing Harvey an injustice, but I think Harvey was a man who did great damage to the Agency. I told them of the case where we refused to carry out such an order, in the case of the Dominican crisis. You might have read that in my testimony.

Goldsmith's next question:

Quote:Mr. Goldsmith. I believe you indicated to the senate that there was a feeling in the CIA that the FBI may have been derelict in its handling of the Oswald case prior to the assassination.

Nice segue. Steer way clear of the implication that Harvey's personal papers might contain evidence linking him to the JFK case. They probably didn't (Harvey wasn't that dumb) but wouldn't you want to follow up on why Scelso said that? After all this was no Langley go-fer. And earlier in Scelso's testimony Goldsmith made it clear that Harvey was

Quote:the central figure in the Committee's concern here

To be fair, when Scelso was asked directly if he had any reason to believe that Harvey was personally involved in the JFK assassination, Scelso answered:

Quote:I do not have any reason to believe it.

But I interpret this as Scelso cleverly saying that he had no proof of Harvey's involvement while in his later comment about the possible content of Harvey's personal papers he lets slip his feeling that he wouldn't be surprised to find some.

Anyway, I'm sure there are more and probably better examples of how the Committee made sure they didn't get too close to the truth but this one has always stood out to me.
Reply
#62
Goldsmith is interesting for the fact that, to my knowledge, he never opened his mouth to say a word about anything concerning the HSCA. Can't find one interview or article.

If I recall correctly, he went on to be a BYU law professor.

But clearly, he was in the middle of it all. He questioned a lot of key witnesses. And he arranged a lot of key exhibits.

I agree with you about Harvey. And his wife was a real load of poison.
Reply
#63
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:Goldsmith is interesting for the fact that, to my knowledge, he never opened his mouth to say a word about anything concerning the HSCA. Can't find one interview or article.

If I recall correctly, he went on to be a BYU law professor.

But clearly, he was in the middle of it all. He questioned a lot of key witnesses. And he arranged a lot of key exhibits.

I agree with you about Harvey. And his wife was a real load of poison.

Dan Hardway was also present fro Scelso's testimony according to the transcript. I don't recall if he asked any questions (haven't read the whole thing in a while). It would be interesting to see if he recalls the exchange and what he thought of it.
Reply
#64
Tom Scully Wrote:..........
Even a year later, it would appear the emphasis is on criticism of Carpenter for using Max Holland as a conduit, instead of delving into Garrison's
best kept secrets. I cannot find any instance in which Garrison ever actually described Stephen Lemann or David Baldwin by name. Joan Mellen
told Rex Bradford that David Baldwin was......

Quote:https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Unredacted_-_Episode_1_-_Transcript.html
Unredacted Episode 1: Transcript of Interview with Joan Mellen
……..
JOAN: when Baldwin was present, he was a CIA asset, his brother worked for the International Trade Mart and Clay Shaw, David Baldwin, and these, these are CIA people.……

Who has best served those interested in Garrison's investigation and his motivation for conducting it? Is Donald Carpenter deserving of inclusion? Was Jim Garrison deserving of inclusion, or did his secrecy muddy our ability to assess who is committed to pursuit of the truth and who is distracted by misguided concerns and allegiances?

Tom Scully Wrote:..........
https://books.google.com/books?id=WwYRW5zQnQcC&pg=PA60&dq="phil+strong"+ufo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwji_tzg6ObTAhUK6yYKHWqJCbkQ6AEIJjAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
Swamp Gas Times: My Two Decades on the UFO Beat
By Patrick Huyghe

[Image: attachment.php?attachmentid=9113&stc=1]
[Image: attachment.php?attachmentid=9114&stc=1]

.........................
...........................................
This article is dated five days after (C.D.) Jackson's wedding.:

http://jfk.pics/images/ParkerLloydSmithT...091731.jpg
September 17, 1931
Young Editor Leaps To Death

Facts - C.D. Jackson was very intelligent and an opportunist.
These attributes did not escape the notice of Henry Luce and likely also not the notice of two older Hill school classmates who roomed together at Princeton for two years, Walker Brainerd Spencer and Philip Grandin Strong.

In 1927 Spencer was best man in the New Orleans wedding of his lifelong friend, CIA's William P. Burke. In 1954, Philip G. Strong set in motion through meetings with his friend Kelly Johnson and a memo to Allen Dulles the development of an airplane
that earned Phil Strong the title, "Father of the U2".

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/...621349.pdf
Approved for release 09/23/2009

Quote:https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kenne...preamble-i
Monday, 15 August 2011 18:10
JFK and the Majestic Papers: The History of a Hoax, Preamble I
Written by Seamus Coogan
.......
One question the majority of people never ask in this case about Crisman and his companion Dahl is why they would both admit that the Maury Island incident was a hoax to an Air force investigation team. Now I do not know how things work in the United States, but were someone from say Canada to pull a prank on the local Air Force, let alone one which resulted in the deaths of two brave airmen in the area of Kelso nearby the sighting as a grown adult, they would likely be prosecuted, fined, and imprisoned. Furthermore, there is a high likelihood he would be publicly shamed in the press nationwide for doing so. Screwing with one's military outside of the US is that big of a deal for the rest of us. In particular when this is on record as being the reconstituted USAF's first ever fatal plane crash.


That Crisman, Dahl, and in particular Palmer (whom knew of Crisman's predilection for tall stories yet still promoted the incident) all got off Scot free' for pulling this stunt, and then went on to cash in on this purportedly childish' prank, is shocking, but this seems to be how things are done in America. There is a curious cultural precedent for this type of weirdness. You may recall the US Marines once let an avowed Communist monitor their top-secret U-2 spy flights over Russia and let him return home after promising to divulge state secrets, and that a fellow by the name of Gordon Novel never faced prosecution for his running interference in Jim Garrison's trial. In the modern era, we have individuals falsifying government documents like MJ-12 then profiteering from them, yet not a finger has been raised against these people either. Don Ecker, one of the few UFO people to have written cautiously on the topic of Fred Crisman made this statement which I believe is very pertinent: "Had these men been exposed, Garrison would have unsealed the Pandora's Box on flying saucers, which, if it had occurred, would have forever ripped away the then nearly 20-year-old mythic fabric wrapping the UFO mystery a veil since used to great benefit by the military to conceal the testing of classified aircraft."......
.......
Now, Walter Bedell-Smith is viewed as being the first person to envisage the CIA using UFOs as potential PSYOPs via this message he sent to Raymond Allen, head of the PSB (Psychological Strategy Board) in 1952:


I am today transmitting to the national security council a proposal in which it is concluded that the problems connected with the UFOs appear to have implications for psychological warfare as well as for intelligence and operations… I suggest that we discuss at an early board meeting the possible offensive and defensive utilization of these phenomena for psychological warfare purposes.
The reality is that the decision to utilize UFOs for psychological purposes likely happened sometime earlier than even Davidson suggested, and well before Bedell Smith ever cottoned on to the idea. It likely started in the bowels of the OSS immediately during the war with an increase in sightings of unidentifiable aircraft. C.D. Jackson of Time-Life was a man with an extensive PSYOPs background and had a major role in the formation of that organisation, not to mention that of it's follow up group, the Operations Coordinating Board (OSB), in 1953. He was also involved with the dubious NICAP organisation that interviewed Betty and Barney Hill about their alien abduction story in 1961. (See the book The Interrupted Journey, which was adapted into the 1975 TV film The UFO Incident.)

..........
[Image: attachment.php?attachmentid=9115&stc=1]

Quote:http://www.presidentialufo.com/articles-...iefing-bus
.........
...They going to say All these guys are criminals. They're covering it up.' … Potus briefing will expose all the politics and how everything fits together.

Asked by Steinfeld how he could prove that the CIA was taking him seriously, Novel replied, "How many people do you know can go around Hollywood handing out scripts (at which he picks up the script and points to it.) with this on "Prepared for the Central Intelligence Agency and Steven Spielberg - Potus Briefing Eyes Only Classification Umbra Red Supreme Cosmic Secret US government Liaison Control Officer Dr. Ronald Pandolfi… Proposed Official Government Disclosure Program." Isn't that about as formal and official as it gets?"
"Why aren't they stopping you?" asked Steinfeld.
"Because I have their authority," replied Novel. "I have their authority to put those seals there. They all know that this is going on."
"They're for this disclosure?" asked Steinfeld.
"Sure," Said Novel.
Pandolfi would of course deny that he and/or the CIA gave any authorization of help to Novel. I know this to be untrue based on three pieces of evidence......

https://youtu.be/01VI3EDfVO8

A yawn....or?
Quote:[URL="http://http://www.tor.com/2013/08/09/toby-barlow-cia-agent-babayaga/"]
[/URL]http://www.tor.com/2013/08/09/toby-barlow-cia-agent-babayaga/
I Never Knew My Grandfather, Only What He Pretended to Be


Toby Barlow
Fri Aug 9, 2013 11:15am
[FONT=&amp]Toby Barlow's Babayaga is out this week from Farrar, Straus and Giroux, and follows the travels of a CIA agent posing as an ad executive CIA agent in Europe in the 1950s. What begins as a relatively straightforward operation quickly becomes something bigger, and weirder. Read an excerpt from the novel and see for yourself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]What you might not know are the life events that inspired Barlow's story. Read on as the author tells us a tale about his grandfather, waiting on a German train in 1937….[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]My grandfather sits on a train, waiting. It is early spring, 1937. His name is Philip Strong and he has boarded here in the Hamburg station, preparing to head to Berlin. Although I possess a volume of his letters from this trip, letters I have read many times, I am still not exactly sure why he is here.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]He is 36 years old, a U.S. Marine Reserve Captain. But as a reserve officer, he is not travelling in uniform, instead he's wearing an old tweed jacket. He has a bulky backpack stashed on the overhead rack. In his pocket is tucked his smoking pipe along with a small pouch of his treasured Dunhill tobacco.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Beside him sits a much younger man named Leko. They are on this sightseeing trip together. By all appearances, it is nothing more than that. They stay in youth hostels and ride on many trains such as this one, sitting back in the third class smokers. [/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]It doesn't make actually make sense that my grandfather would be here in any official capacity. He does not speak German or Russian, only a little French and only the most rudimentary Spanish. If the army had wanted someone to observe the European situation, they probably would have sent an agent who understood at least one of the various languages.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]But it also seems too odd for him to be embarking on a journey with an itinerary that will take him through such a large number of the looming conflicts' many theaters. He will travel from Germany on to Poland, the Balkans, Russia, then down to Kabul and Tehran, driving from there over to Baghdad and Beruit before shipping off to the already jittery East.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Also, there's the fact that he doesn't know this young man sitting beside him very well at all. "Leko and I are getting on well together we have likes in common with are being mutually discovered and so far have developed none which grate on each other," he writes to his sister. It seems they are only socially connected, but not relatives and, until this trip, not friends. They do not agree politically, Leko, my grandfather reports, is pro-fascist, though my grandfather himself is not.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]What is Philip Strong doing here? Maybe it is a bit of self-motivated opportunism. Perhaps he senses history coming and is cleverly placing himself squarely in its path.....[/FONT]

Quote:https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl...a+two-year*%22+
Princeton Alumni Weekly Volume 37 Page 607
1936 (April 16, 1937) ‎
Phil Strong is off on a two-year walking trip through Germany and Russia. If he doesn't write a book about Russia, it will certainly be news….

https://books.google.com/books?id=sRFbAA...ong&f=true
[Image: BrainerdSpencerObitPhilStrongU2Burke.jpg]

[Image: BurkePhilStrongHillSchool1918.jpg]

[Image: BurkeBrainardSpencerBestMan.jpg]

[Image: BurkeSpencerHillSchool1918.jpg]

[Image: BurkeWBSpencerObit090254SM.jpg]


[Image: WBSpencerBurkeBuffet.jpg]


Quote:http://findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?pag...=100520469
Constance Ivy Burke Fedoroff

Queen MKC 1950.
.....Parents:
William P. Burke (____ - 1980)
Frances Ivy Kittredge Burke (1907 - 1985)

From the 1920 Hill School yearbook :

[Image: CDJacksonHillSchool1920.jpg]

Quote:http://www.philly.com/philly/education/H...s-Run.html
Exclusive Hill School fights perception, and Pottstown's economic challenges
Updated: MARCH 20, 2017 11:47 AM EDT

A remnant of the halcyon days of a town that once forged steel for the Golden Gate Bridge, with its manicured walls, stately buildings, and stained-glass windows, the Hill School -- whose alumni include Donald Trump Jr., Gov. Wolf, and the moviemaker Oliver Stone -- is an anomaly in Pottstown......[/FONT]
Peter Janney's uncle was Frank Pace, chairman of General Dynamics who enlisted law partners Roswell Gilpatric and Luce's brother-in-law, Maurice "Tex" Moore, in a trade of 16 percent of Gen. Dyn. stock in exchange for Henry Crown and his Material Service Corp. of Chicago, headed by Byfield's Sherman Hotel group's Pat Hoy. The Crown family and partner Conrad Hilton next benefitted from TFX, at the time, the most costly military contract award in the history of the world. Obama was sponsored by the Crowns and Pritzkers. So was Albert Jenner Peter Janney has preferred to write of an imaginary CIA assassination of his surrogate mother, Mary Meyer, but not a word about his Uncle Frank.
Reply


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Jim Garrison vs Fred Litwin: The Beat Goes on Part 2 Jim DiEugenio 1 2,968 24-11-2018, 05:45 PM
Last Post: Jim DiEugenio
  The Mellon Foundation attacks Jim Garrison Anthony Thorne 4 11,352 14-09-2018, 02:11 AM
Last Post: James Lateer
  Bill Turner on Garrison KPFA Jim DiEugenio 2 5,888 10-01-2018, 06:12 AM
Last Post: Peter Lemkin
  Turner on Garrison Files on JFK Peter Lemkin 0 5,333 30-10-2017, 05:37 PM
Last Post: Peter Lemkin
  How Max Holland Duped the Daily Beast Jim DiEugenio 3 4,427 24-06-2017, 07:08 PM
Last Post: Jim DiEugenio
  Jim Garrison recruits 007 in solving the crime of the century Anthony Thorne 7 4,887 24-04-2017, 12:12 AM
Last Post: Jim DiEugenio
  Donald Trump is the RIGHT man for office! Scott Kaiser 15 6,089 14-12-2016, 11:22 PM
Last Post: Tracy Riddle
  Why Robert Kennedy would've hated Donald Trump Scott Kaiser 24 12,647 21-10-2016, 05:24 PM
Last Post: John Knoble
  Case Distorted: Posner, Garrison, and the NY Times Jim DiEugenio 0 1,489 12-10-2016, 01:50 AM
Last Post: Jim DiEugenio
  Prouty To Garrison Letter Peter Lemkin 9 4,280 20-06-2011, 05:17 PM
Last Post: Jan Klimkowski

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)