Polish President and Army Chief of Staff dead

[Paul Rigby]

http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.co...orski.html

Friday, April 30, 2010

Poland-IMF loans and Radoslaw Sikorski does the US

So what is happening politically with Poland?

Let me drop a name. The name for the day is Radoslaw Sikorski.

Polands Foreign Minister is making the rounds in the US, on the arm of Hilary Rodham Clinton.

Just what have Rad and Hil been up to?! Reaffirming their firm commitment to one another?

Indeed, they have. Both countries have agreed to resume a strategic dialogue. They made the announcement together after talks in Washington, yesterday.

Some interesting statements, that may be relevant to the recent plane crash that wiped out the previous government.

Clinton and Sikorski also discussed the conflict in Afghanistan and new areas of U.S.-Polish cooperation on energy and climate.

Sikorski said if American companies exploring energy resources in Poland "strike it lucky," it would enhance the energy security of Poland and Europe and forge new investment links between Poland and the United States.

That is kind of surprising.

I thought Russia and Poland had just struck some kind of energy pipeline deal?
Now Sikorski is talking 'energy security' with the US?

A delegation led by Sikorski is on a week-long U.S. tour since Tuesday with the focus on renewing the Polish-American Strategic Dialogue.

Sikorski is also scheduled to meet with U.S. National Security Advisor James Jones, representatives of the U.S. Congress, and Washington think tanks.

Then Sikorski announced that Clinton is visiting Poland as a member of the elite group of countries which will meet in Krakow during July 2-4 to re-launch the Community of Democracies.

Joint Statement on the US and Polish Bilateral Strategic Dialogue

Hilary, is such a gal pal to Sikorski, she is promising to look in Polish Visas.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has promised to look into the issue of Poles requiring visas to enter the United States after a meeting with Polish Foreign Minister Radosław Sikorski.

Earlier this week, European Parliament President Jerzy Buzek criticised the U.S. visa policy, which divides EU member states into "better" and "worse" countries according to which ones are included in the Visa Waiver Program (VWP).

Poland is the only member of the Schengen zone that is not included in the VWP. The official criteria to enter the VWP is based on the ratio of rejected visa applications to total visa applications, which must fall under 10 percent. At the moment, the figure is at 13 percent. If the number of visas granted were to increase, Poland would soon be within range of entry into the VWP.
Don't worry Hilary is on the job!

Wait, there is more.

Missiles on Sikorski's Washington Agenda

“Such weapons are placed around Poland’s borders so it would be both in the interest of Poland and NATO to reduce the nuclear arsenal. Reducing tactical weapons would be the next step after reducing strategic weapons,” Sikorski said after the meeting.

Missile reduction, is most certainly not what they are speaking of.

Some additional news has the IMF popping up!

Poland: does Warsaw really want a new IMF credit line?

The question is would the government, including the central banker, that died in the plane crash have wanted a new IMF credit line?

The Polish central bank insists the country has no need to ask the Fund for a replacement for the current facility

The government takes a different view. Earlier this week Dominik Radziwill, deputy finance minister, said an extension of the FCL was called for because of the turmoil caused by the recent downgrades of Greece, Portugal and Spain

Uber thought provoking statement from linked article, I am going to bold it for you to read and contemplate-

The issue had been a sore point between the ministry and the bank, but the death of Slawomir Skrzyepk, the former central bank governor, in the April 10 air crash, has taken some heat out of the argument.

The death of the former central bank governor has taken some heat out of the argument???

Who would benefit from Poland taking on more IMF loans? Not Poland, of course. For there would be austerity measures put in place. Hmmmmm........

I find all this interesting, because the main stream media has been giving us the news for the past couple of weeks that Russia and Poland could get closer and Russia could benefit from this tragedy, etc., etc. Then Sikorski is in the US two-timing with Hilary?
And, the IMF is largely hooked in with the the US branch of the political banking cartel.

And another picture emerges entirely.

It was reported msm that Medvedev attended, so did the leader of the Ukraine and Georgia.

http://www.canada.com/news/Polish+foreig...story.html

"Although US President Barack Obama and dozens of other dignitaries were unable to attend the elaborate state funeral because of the cloud of volcanic ash covering much of Europe, Medvedev flew in to attend Sunday’s ceremony."

I had commented on how odd that was the medvedev could apparently circumvent the volcanic ash and others couldn't?

another article

http://www.wbj.pl/article-49272-obama-go...neral.html

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych also attended.

The late president's close friend, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili, also managed to attend, flying in from the US through Rome - making five stops along the way.
-Mikheil Saakashavili, flies into to attend from the US via rome, but Obama golfs?
What message is sent to Poland by Obamas snub?

[Paul Rigby]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8669975.stm

British troops mark VE Day with Red Square parade

British soldiers have marched in Red Square in Moscow for the first time to mark the 65th anniversary of the defeat of Nazi Germany on Sunday.

Seventy six soldiers from 2 Company 1st Battalion Welsh Guards marched beside more than 10,500 Russian troops and others from the US and France.

The multi-million pound parade also included a 1,000-strong military band, tanks, missiles and 127 aircraft.

The UK forces were taking part at the request of the Russian government.

The British detachment also included members of the Royal Air Force band.

BBC Moscow correspondent Richard Galpin said it was a "highly symbolic gesture to demonstrate how far the rivalry of the Cold War has been pushed aside".

Mr Galpin added that no senior British figure was amongst the world leaders who had gathered to watch the parade.

He said it was unclear why the Russian government rejected an offer for Prince Charles to attend.

'Emotional tour'

The commanding officer of the Aldershot-based 1st Battalion Welsh Guards, Lt Col Rupert Thorneloe, was killed during their tour of Afghanistan six months ago.

He is the most senior British army officer to die in action since the Falklands
conflict. Lt Col Thorneloe died alongside Trooper Joshua Hammond when a roadside bomb hit their vehicle.

It was an emotional tour," said Guardsman Thomas James.

"This is the first time I've been on official parade in my tunic since we've been back. It's an honour to be here."

Guardsman Ian Mundy said: "There is a sense of pride to be in this massive parade on Red Square.

"It seems that everyone is interested in us as well and I'm proud to be a part of that."

The Welsh Guards are staying at the Moscow Military Academy as guests of the Russian Army.

Ahead of the event, they have been given a guided tour of the Kremlin, invited to concerts and taken part in a cultural tour of the city via a boat trip up the Moscow River.

[Peter Lemkin]

Preliminary investigation report - three persons in cockpit before crash were NOT the crew....odd....

[Ed Jewett]

Preliminary investigation report - three persons in cockpit before crash were NOT the crew....odd....

I haven't kept up with this, but several questions come to mind:

1) Were any boxcutters, red bandannas or copies of the Koran found in the wreckage?

2) Were any cell phone calls made just prior to the crash?

3) Are there any entities crafting sophisticated computer simulations about these events?

4) Is Популярная механика planning a special issue in the near future?

[Peter Lemkin]

Preliminary investigation report - three persons in cockpit before crash were NOT the crew....odd....

I haven't kept up with this, but several questions come to mind:

1) Were any boxcutters, red bandannas or copies of the Koran found in the wreckage?

2) Were any cell phone calls made just prior to the crash?

3) Are there any entities crafting sophisticated computer simulations about these events?

4) Is Популярная механика planning a special issue in the near future?

update.....and partial answer to your line of questioning....the Russians say the two persons [known, but not identified] were in the cockpit when it crashed. The Poles say they were in the cockpit about 25 minutes before the crash...quite a discrepancy!....

[Jan Klimkowski]

This "passengers in the cockpit" leak is desperate spin trying to blame the Polish politicians on board for the crash.

Note the byeline to the piece below (my emphasis): "Russian officials identify non-crew member in cockpit of Polish plane, fuelling theory that officials pressured pilots to land"

It is really really desperate stuff worthy of an Alastair Campbell or a Joseph Goebbels...

'Passengers in cockpit' in Polish president's plane crash

Russian officials identify non-crew member in cockpit of Polish plane, fuelling theory that officials pressured pilots to land

Investigators today revealed that there were passengers in the cockpit of the Polish government plane that crashed in Russia last month, fuelling speculation that the disaster may have been partly caused when high-ranking officials on board pressured pilots to land amid thick fog.

Some 96 people died in the crash last month, including the Polish president Lech Kaczinski, his wife and dozens of Polish military and political leaders.

Russian officials said they had identified at least one person who was not a crew member as the plane descended in thick fog towards Smolensk airport. They said there was evidence that another passenger – or possibly passengers – was also present.

"It was established that there were people in the cockpit who were not crew members. The voice of one of them has been identified, while the other, or others, will be identified by the Polish side," said a Russian interstate aviation committee official, Tatyana Anodina.

Russian officials said they had finished transcribing data from flight recorders retrieved from the crash scene. They said the Soviet-designed Tupulov aircraft and its navigation system were working perfectly. But they suggested the crew did not have regular flight training, and may have lacked experience.

It is so far unclear why the pilots ignored warnings from Russian air traffic control and went ahead with an attempt to land at a military airport in western Russia. Poland's investigation envoy Edmund Klich said it was unclear whether the non-crew voices heard in recordings influenced the crew to land despite warnings of bad conditions and poor visibility. The crew had been briefed about the difficult weather conditions and told they could divert to Moscow or Minsk, Russian officials said.

Last month Poland's former prime minister Leszek Miller told the Guardian he thought Kaczynski may have personally contributed to the accident by insisting the pilots land in Smolensk. Kaczynski had been determined to reach Smolensk to attend a memorial service on the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre, when Soviet secret police executed more than 20,000 Polish officers, Miller said.

"The president so wanted to be there. The pilot knew this and so they accepted the risk and in the process lost everything," the former PM said. Others have suggested that Kaczynski – a bitter critic of the Russian government – may have suspected the advice from air traffic control to divert was a Kremlin ploy designed to ruin the Katyn memorial event.

In August 2008, during Russia's war with Georgia, Kaczynski had a heated row with a pilot flying his plane to the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, according to Polish reports. The pilot refused to land and instead diverted the aircraft to neighbouring Azerbaijan. The president told the pilot his refusal would have consequences, allegedly declaring: "If someone decides to be a pilot he cannot be fearful."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may...rs-cockpit

[Peter Lemkin]

This "passengers in the cockpit" leak is desperate spin trying to blame the Polish politicians on board for the crash.

Note the byeline to the piece below (my emphasis): "Russian officials identify non-crew member in cockpit of Polish plane, fuelling theory that officials pressured pilots to land"

It is really reallydesperate stuff worthy of an Alastair Campbell or a Joseph Goebbels...

'Passengers in cockpit' in Polish president's plane crash

Russian officials identify non-crew member in cockpit of Polish plane, fuelling theory that officials pressured pilots to land

Investigators today revealed that there were passengers in the cockpit of the Polish government plane that crashed in Russia last month, fuelling speculation that the disaster may have been partly caused when high-ranking officials on board pressured pilots to land amid thick fog.

Some 96 people died in the crash last month, including the Polish president Lech Kaczinski, his wife and dozens of Polish military and political leaders.

Russian officials said they had identified at least one person who was not a crew member as the plane descended in thick fog towards Smolensk airport. They said there was evidence that another passenger – or possibly passengers – was also present.

"It was established that there were people in the cockpit who were not crew members. The voice of one of them has been identified, while the other, or others, will be identified by the Polish side," said a Russian interstate aviation committee official, Tatyana Anodina.

Russian officials said they had finished transcribing data from flight recorders retrieved from the crash scene. They said the Soviet-designed Tupulov aircraft and its navigation system were working perfectly. But they suggested the crew did not have regular flight training, and may have lacked experience.

It is so far unclear why the pilots ignored warnings from Russian air traffic control and went ahead with an attempt to land at a military airport in western Russia. Poland's investigation envoy Edmund Klich said it was unclear whether the non-crew voices heard in recordings influenced the crew to land despite warnings of bad conditions and poor visibility. The crew had been briefed about the difficult weather conditions and told they could divert to Moscow or Minsk, Russian officials said.

Last month Poland's former prime minister Leszek Miller told the Guardian he thought Kaczynski may have personally contributed to the accident by insisting the pilots land in Smolensk. Kaczynski had been determined to reach Smolensk to attend a memorial service on the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre, when Soviet secret police executed more than 20,000 Polish officers, Miller said.

"The president so wanted to be there. The pilot knew this and so they accepted the risk and in the process lost everything," the former PM said. Others have suggested that Kaczynski – a bitter critic of the Russian government – may have suspected the advice from air traffic control to divert was a Kremlin ploy designed to ruin the Katyn memorial event.

In August 2008, during Russia's war with Georgia, Kaczynski had a heated row with a pilot flying his plane to the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, according to Polish reports. The pilot refused to land and instead diverted the aircraft to neighbouring Azerbaijan. The president told the pilot his refusal would have consequences, allegedly declaring: "If someone decides to be a pilot he cannot be fearful."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may...rs-cockpit

I agree Jan....unless the Ruskies hand over the 'black [really red] boxes to the Poles and let them do the investigation, the truth will never be known....as is [I think] the M.O. of Putin and Co. Even IF some from the passenger area spoke to the pilots, it would NOT explain a crash! I call the whole episode Katyn II - Both were Russian mass murder....:eviltongue:

[Carsten Wiethoff]

The russian Kommersant newspaper has a more fleshed out version of the events in the cockpit (russian original here: http://kommersant.ru/doc.aspx?DocsID=1372037&NodesID=6) (Google translation)

I quote a partial english translation from http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/41565...ost5704483:

"According to Russian experts, the main cause of the accident were the mistakes of the Polish pilots who committed them when landing. The first was to start the approach to inaccurate navigation system, a/c in autopilot mode, which was categorically wrong. Set the machine to the beginning of the glide path, for which, according to his calculations, aircraft had to descent, the commander set the autopilot V mode to descent speed of 4 m / s and started landing, assuming that at these parameters chassis touch the ground at the beginning of the strip. Meanwhile, the navigator was checking the altitude of the aircraft by radio altimeter - a device which determines the distance to the ground by radio signal reflected from it. Fatal role in the crash, according to experts, played a rather flat and a long valley with depth of about 40 m, located across the glide path, and the inexperience of the navigator. When the plane was flying above the bottom of the valley and the ground began to go down, navigator panicked and began to constantly tell the commander that they are above the glide path and do not descent. The commander, in turn, trusted his subordinate and increased - doubled - the vertical rate of descent - up to 8 m / sec. Valley under the glide path in the meantime was over, replaced by a prolonged rise of the hill, and the pilots forgot to increase the vertical velocity.

The crew, according to experts, tired as soon as possible to catch a glimpse under the fog to see the ground - but the ground, meanwhile, rushed towards them. To get the crew out of the fast descent, the ATC was shouting the pilots "one hundred first, the horizon!!" (101-flight number, immediately stop the decline and change in level flight .-" editior "), and the system TAWS, was heard in the audio recording of the cockpit with the phrase" Pull up ! ". However, the crew was busy with a visual search of ground and no one has listened. They pulled up only after seeing the birch straight ahead, but it was already too late.

It should be noted that the Polish side does not agree with this position. According to Polish experts, the ATC command "One hundred first horizon!" sounded too late, when the plane had dropped below one hundred meters decision height. Russian experts suggest, however, that the ATC simply could not keep track of the radar screen label due to too great rate of descent of the aircraft."

[Helen Reyes]

I get the impression on presidential aircraft it's fairly common for "outsiders," i.e., passengers to be popping in and out of the cockpit. Ronald Reagan always made a point of thanking the pilots personally, the Clintons were always fairly rude and pulled stunts like stopping all air traffic while Bill got a haircut on the tarmac, or so I've read.

[Dawn Meredith]

Zbigniew Brzezinski, the former national security adviser to President Jimmy Carter between 1977 and 1981, believes that "..in this tragic situation there are positive possibilities. The president died during a great pilgrimage for truth, independence and reconciliation. The reaction of Russia following this tragic accident creates a situation favorable for reconciliation.”

"I do not think that this is a game on the part of Russians, this is something sincere. And very new. That is why there exist new, unforeseen possibilities of deeper Polish-Russian reconciliation," Brzezinski told Polish journalists.

For those with Eyes Wide Open, Brzezinski has just given the Grand Game away.

I wonder if the secret protocols for dividing Eurasia have been committed to paper like their 1939 predecessor...
:eviltongue:

While reading through this thread it occurred to me that there have been SOO many plane crashes that were murder that it is nearly impossible for me to believe in any accident "theory"- (ie Dorothy Hunt, Hale Boggs, JFK JR, Paul Wellstone...this list is very long)- but When I saw the above quote I had the same reaction Jan had. Sometimes it's a slip up , ie admission, other times it's a near gloat. Either way here I am leaning heavily against the "accident theory". Business as usual.

Dawn