Ah but it was all so long ago now, wasn't it? Back in the 80s when the world was bad. Senior members of the establishment don't do things like that any more, do they ?
Do they?
Well, you wouldn't think so to read these reports. In fact they seem to go out of their way to refer to it as 'historic'. It's hard to believe it ever really went away. They probably just got more discreet about it.
Malcolm Pryce Wrote:Ah but it was all so long ago now, wasn't it? Back in the 80s when the world was bad. Senior members of the establishment don't do things like that any more, do they ?
Do they?
Well, you wouldn't think so to read these reports. In fact they seem to go out of their way to refer to it as 'historic'. It's hard to believe it ever really went away. They probably just got more discreet about it.
Well, if you hit the 1st page of this thread on the Haut de la `Garenne children home in Jersey circa 2008, you can see that it's still going on and the cover up is still active. Add to that all recent and ongoing paedophile convictions (see The Needle for these), plus the various reports about this sort of activity during tony Blair's term in office and what seems to be perpetual paedophilia in the Roman church and you can only conclude it is still very current.
But yes, I agree, "they" want it to seem historic for obvious reasons.
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
Let's hope Lord Brittan doesn't expire from stress before (or if?) he is able to answer questions by a fair and unprejudiced inquiry chaired by a respected, fair and unprejudiced chairperson...
Meanwhile, we might note that Lord Brittan is/was a trade adviser to David Cameron and, therefore, the latter would be badly damaged were it to be found that Lord Brittan ever attended events at Elm Guest House.
Quote:
Sir Edward Garnier 'tried to stop Labour MP challenging Lord Brittan over child abuse claims'
Simon Danczuk says former Conservative Solicitor General tackled him on the evening before he was due to give evidence to Home Affairs select committee
Labour MP for Rochdale, Simon DanczukPhoto: Paul Cousans/ZENPIX
One of David Cameron's former top legal advisers tried to stop a Labour MP "challenging" Lord Brittan of Spennithorne over child abuse allegations in the Houses of Parliament, it has been claimed.
Simon Danczuk said Sir Edward Garnier, who was made Solicitor General by the Prime Minister in May 2010, tackled him on the evening before he was due to give evidence to the Home Affairs select committee in the summer.
Mr Danczuk has made his name tackling historic institutional child abuse in the British establishment, including disclosing the paedophilia of former Liberal MP Cyril Smith.
He described how he had raised concerns that a dossier claiming allegations about child abuse by the political establishment had gone missing after it was handed to Leon Brittan now Lord Brittan when he was Home Secretary.
This prompted Theresa May, the current Home Secretary, to order a review.
Mr Danczuk told MPs: "Earlier this year I told the Home Affairs Select Committee that a dossier containing allegations about child abuse by politicians had been handed by Tory MP Geoffrey Dickens to the then Home Secretary Leon Brittan. "This revelation helped lead to the Wanless/Whittam review and to the establishment of the overarching inquiry. "But not everyone was pleased by the idea that I might challenge Lord Brittan. "The night before my appearance at the committee I had an encounter with the right honourable learned Member for Harborough [Sir Edward Garnier]. "After the 10pm vote he drew me to one side outside the chamber and warned me to think very carefully about what I was going to say the following day. "He told me that challenging Lord Brittan on child abuse would not be a wise move and that I might even be responsible for his death as he was unwell. "I understand that people are cautious about naming parliamentarians but I do think that people who might know about child abuse allegations should answer questions whatever their position. We should not shy away from that." Earlier in the debate, Mr Danczuk told how that his "desire to get to the truth about child abuse has not been universally shared". He said: "We now know that from at least the 1970s up to the present day there have been people in positions of power who have sexually abused children, not only this there have been powerful people willing to cover up this abuse and obstruct justice. "People were more concerned about their own careers and protecting the system than they were about the lives that were being shattered. "There was a culture of acceptance of child sex abuse by the powerful and well connected." [SUP]Lord Brittan denies child abuse allegations (Getty)[/SUP] Sir Edward was the Coalition's solicitor-general from May 2010 to September 2012. Sir Edward, who has known Lord Brittan for 40 years, declined to comment when Mr Danczuk's remarks were put to him by the Telegraph on Thursday afternoon. It is understood that Sir Edward was intervening after a personal request by Lady Brittan, who was worried about the strain on her husband's health. He is now considering answering Mr Danczuk's allegations as a point of order in the House of Commons. Many of the allegations about child abuse by members of the Establishment centre on the Elm Guest House in south west London which was run in the early 1980s by Haroon and Carole Kasir. Richmond MP Zac Goldsmith said during the debate that Scotland Yard had since confirmed that Cyril Smith had been a visitor. He told MPs how a child protection campaigner had been told by Mrs Kasir before she died 30 years ago that "that boys had been brought in from a local children's homeGrafton Close, also in Richmondfor sex, and that she had photographs of establishment figures at her hotel. "One of them apparently showed a former Cabinet Minister in a sauna with a naked boy. She had logbooks, names, times, dates, pictures of her customers and so on." Mr Goldsmith said it was "astonishing" that all the evidence from raids on the guesthouse had simply disappeared and no longer exists.
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
David Guyatt Wrote:Let's hope Lord Brittan doesn't expire from stress before (or if?) he is able to answer questions by a fair and unprejudiced inquiry chaired by a respected, fair and unprejudiced chairperson...
Meanwhile, we might note that Lord Brittan is/was a trade adviser to David Cameron and, therefore, the latter would be badly damaged were it to be found that Lord Brittan ever attended events at Elm Guest House.
I'm pleased to see him making use of parliamentary privilege. This is what it is for.
Cameron seems to have come out of the Andy Coulson hacking crime wave okay. But just shows what a sleazy lot the Tories are.
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx
"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.
“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.â€
― Leo Tolstoy,
Exaro is running a story on the Buckingham Palace connection HERE.
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
They'll have to lift any restrictions related to the Official Secrets Act. There are policemen coming forward and they want to speak and they are getting phone calls telling them to shut up.
Quote:EXCLUSIVE: MPs face sex abuse arrest!
TWO former MPs face arrest within weeks over child sex abuse claims, we can reveal.
By Don Hale / Published 30th November 2014 SEX CASES: Cyril Smith, who died in 2010, had been accused of *numerous sex offences against children [PHOTOSHOT]
Labour's John Mann, who has campaigned to uncover details of a Westminster *paedophile ring operating in the 1970s and 80s, said he *expected police to swoop in the New Year.
The news came as it emerged former policemen who have *investigated the abuse network have been warned they could be arrested for breaching the *Official Secrets Act if they speak out now.
There are calls for the *retired officers to be given an *amnesty from prosecution if they reveal what they know.
We can reveal that ex-Special Branch detective Tony Robinson says he received warnings about repeating facts relating to *disgraced Liberal MP Cyril Smith and over his monitoring of other politicians.
Tony, 81, now retired and in poor health, said he was "shocked and surprised" by warnings from his old bosses at Lancashire *Police.
He said they told him his *knowledge was still protected by the Official Secrets Act (OSA), adding that he should not speak to the media.
Tony, who retired more than 20 years ago, said: "I took this call from a man at my old HQ telling me not to speak about things from years ago.
"I could hardly believe it.
"They have not been in touch for years and then to threaten me or point out that I am still covered by the OSA was ridiculous.
"The whole incident has stressed me out I'm not well and can't be doing with all this."
Tony was the officer who found Cyril Smith's prosecution files "deliberately hidden" in a *Special Branch safe in Preston in the early 1970s.
Smith, who died in 2010, had been accused of *numerous sex offences against children over decades.
Records of incidents were allegedly covered up.
Smith was never charged *despite several police probes.
Last night Mr Mann, MP for *Bassetlaw in Nottinghamshire, said he expected politicians to be "arrested and charged".
"There can no longer be any doubt at all that powerful people have done terrible things and they have been protected by the Establishment"
Zac Goldsmith, Tory MP
He said: "There have been a lot of leads and information received from London and *Nottingham from victims, which I have passed on to the police.
"They have been investigated and I am certain arrests will be made soon and long before the next election."
The MP also *condemned *attempts to gag former police.
Mr Mann added: "I'm disgusted at the treatment given to Mr *Robinson.
"He should never have been put in that position with bullying and intimidation.
"I am quite prepared to take up this issue with the Home *Secretary Theresa May and the *shadow minister Yvette Cooper.
Mr Mann's Labour colleague Simon Danczuk, the MP for *Rochdale, last week made a plea for an amnesty to help past and present officials with any *knowledge of sexual abuse.
On Thursday in a Commons *debate on historical child abuse, Mr Danczuk said: "A large number of police officers, both retired and serving, have *information to give. We simply need to get the full picture and to get those people to speak at an inquiry.
"The Home Secretary must *ensure there is a full amnesty for any officer so that they are not worried about the Official *Secrets Act or their pensions."
Tory MP Zac Goldsmith said in the debate: "There can no longer be any doubt at all that powerful people have done terrible things and they have been protected by the Establishment."
Mr Danczuk added: "The *network organised child abuse and conspired to protect each of its members from exposure.
"Cyril Smith was certainly part of it. During my own inquiries Smith was found to be the subject of multiple *police investigations all of which were dropped.
"There are many examples of retired police officers offering powerful testimony to me about past investigations of child abuse.
"They were shut down once it was apparent high-profile *politicians and other Establishment figures were involved.
"Questions must be asked why those investigations did not *continue."
Magda Hassan Wrote:They'll have to lift any restrictions related to the Official Secrets Act. There are policemen coming forward and they want to speak and they are getting phone calls telling them to shut up.
Quote:EXCLUSIVE: MPs face sex abuse arrest!
TWO former MPs face arrest within weeks over child sex abuse claims, we can reveal.
By Don Hale / Published 30th November 2014 SEX CASES: Cyril Smith, who died in 2010, had been accused of *numerous sex offences against children [PHOTOSHOT]
Labour's John Mann, who has campaigned to uncover details of a Westminster *paedophile ring operating in the 1970s and 80s, said he *expected police to swoop in the New Year.
The news came as it emerged former policemen who have *investigated the abuse network have been warned they could be arrested for breaching the *Official Secrets Act if they speak out now.
There are calls for the *retired officers to be given an *amnesty from prosecution if they reveal what they know.
We can reveal that ex-Special Branch detective Tony Robinson says he received warnings about repeating facts relating to *disgraced Liberal MP Cyril Smith and over his monitoring of other politicians.
Tony, 81, now retired and in poor health, said he was "shocked and surprised" by warnings from his old bosses at Lancashire *Police.
He said they told him his *knowledge was still protected by the Official Secrets Act (OSA), adding that he should not speak to the media.
Tony, who retired more than 20 years ago, said: "I took this call from a man at my old HQ telling me not to speak about things from years ago.
"I could hardly believe it.
"They have not been in touch for years and then to threaten me or point out that I am still covered by the OSA was ridiculous.
"The whole incident has stressed me out I'm not well and can't be doing with all this."
Tony was the officer who found Cyril Smith's prosecution files "deliberately hidden" in a *Special Branch safe in Preston in the early 1970s.
Smith, who died in 2010, had been accused of *numerous sex offences against children over decades.
Records of incidents were allegedly covered up.
Smith was never charged *despite several police probes.
Last night Mr Mann, MP for *Bassetlaw in Nottinghamshire, said he expected politicians to be "arrested and charged".
"There can no longer be any doubt at all that powerful people have done terrible things and they have been protected by the Establishment"
Zac Goldsmith, Tory MP
He said: "There have been a lot of leads and information received from London and *Nottingham from victims, which I have passed on to the police.
"They have been investigated and I am certain arrests will be made soon and long before the next election."
The MP also *condemned *attempts to gag former police.
Mr Mann added: "I'm disgusted at the treatment given to Mr *Robinson.
"He should never have been put in that position with bullying and intimidation.
"I am quite prepared to take up this issue with the Home *Secretary Theresa May and the *shadow minister Yvette Cooper.
Mr Mann's Labour colleague Simon Danczuk, the MP for *Rochdale, last week made a plea for an amnesty to help past and present officials with any *knowledge of sexual abuse.
On Thursday in a Commons *debate on historical child abuse, Mr Danczuk said: "A large number of police officers, both retired and serving, have *information to give. We simply need to get the full picture and to get those people to speak at an inquiry.
"The Home Secretary must *ensure there is a full amnesty for any officer so that they are not worried about the Official *Secrets Act or their pensions."
Tory MP Zac Goldsmith said in the debate: "There can no longer be any doubt at all that powerful people have done terrible things and they have been protected by the Establishment."
Mr Danczuk added: "The *network organised child abuse and conspired to protect each of its members from exposure.
"Cyril Smith was certainly part of it. During my own inquiries Smith was found to be the subject of multiple *police investigations all of which were dropped.
"There are many examples of retired police officers offering powerful testimony to me about past investigations of child abuse.
"They were shut down once it was apparent high-profile *politicians and other Establishment figures were involved.
"Questions must be asked why those investigations did not *continue."
Applause to Tony Robinson for speaking out about this pressure. It's clear they are still trying to put a lid on this and failing. Someone had to tell them to fuck off and Robinson just did. But they'll keep trying to quash the whole thing. That's what they do.
Also, I was very interested to learn that the files on Cyril Smith were accidentally found in a Special Branch safe. My guess is that is where most of the Westminster paedophile/Geoffrey Dickens files currently are - assuming they haven't been shredded.
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
I wonder who is the "former minister in Tony Blair's government"? Perhaps the suppressed story in the herald Scotland newspaper some years ago might now prove to have been valid?
John Allen, 73, and Michael John Carroll, 66, were friends when they were abusing youngsters North Wales and London respectively in the 1980s
Links: Council documents reveal how Carroll, right, used to visit Allen, left, at his children's homeTwo notorious paedophiles were at the centre of a nationwide network of abusers which allegedly included both Labour and Tory politicians, a Mirror investigation has found. Detectives suspected 16 years ago that the children's home abuse ring spanned the country and involved hundreds of victims. Official documents show paedophiles John Allen, 73, and Michael John Carroll, 66, were friends when they were abusing youngsters North Wales and London respectively in the 1980s. Their links can be revealed on the day Allen was jailed for life for sexually abusing 19 children he was paid to look after. Margaret Thatcher's former aide Sir Peter Morrison is suspected of abusing boys in Allen's care in Wales while a former minister in Tony Blair's government is currently being probed over his alleged visits to Carroll's Angell Road children's home in Lambeth, south London. Both men were protected by the authorities who ignored Allen's victims for years and allowed Carroll to remain in charge of the home despite knowing he was a convicted paedophile. A series of articles in the Daily Mirror have revealed how former detective Clive Driscoll was removed from an investigation into Carroll in 1998 when he named the Blair minister as a suspect. Official papers from that year show a boy placed in a Lambeth home was abused by Carroll, known as MJC, while two of the boy's brothers went to a Bryn Allen Community in Wales where youngsters were attacked by Allen. The internal Lambeth council document, dated 23 September, 1998, states: "Additional information not yet in a statement is that the third brother of witness 1 and 2 was placed at Bryn Allen Community not Angell Road. "However he has confirmed that he knew MJC who used to visit John Allen at the community. "John Allen is now serving a long custodial sentence for abuse of children at that group home...From the placements list it appears we used a number of homes to place children now known to have suffered extensive abuse. Eg Bryn Allen, and St Georges Liverpool now renamed Clarence House." Andy Stenning / Daily Mirror
Convicted paedophile Michael Carroll Another document dated September 18, 1998, reveals officers from Merseyside's Operation Care, who successfully investigated Carroll, were aware of the links. It states: "Operation care (sic) has suggested a tie-up between Lambeth children and the enquiry in North Wales. North Wales Police say that Lambeth was informed of this in 1991." Mr Driscoll, who led the investigation that saw two of Stephen Lawrence's killers jailed, said of his 1998 suspects: "Some of the names were people that were locally working, some people that were, if you like, working nationally. "There was quite a mix really because it appeared that it was connected to other boroughs and other movement around the country." A social services source who investigated abuse in Lambeth agreed, saying: "There were patterns of children moving to certain homes around the country, Lambeth, north Wales, south Wales and Merseyside. "It was bigger than Lambeth - it involved senior children's homes officers around the country but it was proving it that was the problem. Daily Mirror "These like-minded people had access to one another through their work." One of Carroll's Lambeth victims confirmed that detectives were aware of his links with Allen in 1998. Now a father and delivery driver, he said: "The police told me John Allen knew Carroll. They said they were investigating their links but that was the last I heard. "You have to think to yourself did they have a system where children were being passed around homes to be abused?" Carroll took boys on camping trips to the Caernarfon, north Wales, where he ran the Ozaman charity in the 1980s and later opened a hotel near Wrexham, where many children from the North Wales homes were abused. One man who accompanied Carroll on the trips is currently being hunted by Merseyside police after being summonsed earlier this year over allegations of child sex attacks dating back many decades. Carroll's fellow care worker Steven Forrest, was accused of sexually assaulting a young boy at Angell Road. He died of an Aids related illness before the boy made the allegation. At least three men who worked with Carroll at a youth charity in London were also convicted paedophiles. Allen was jailed in 1995 for six years for child sex abuse. A former police officer who knew Allen is currently on bail after being arrested on suspicion of sexually abusing boys. Allen's former employees Peter Howarth and Stephen Norris were both convicted of sexually abusing children in their care. Rod Richards, a former Conservative MP and ex-leader of the Welsh Tories, has claimed he had seen evidence linking Sir Peter Morrison to the North Wales children's homes case, in which up to 650 children in 40 homes were sexually, physically and emotionally abused over 20 years. Former Tory minister Edwina Currie revealed that Morrision was a child abuser in her diaries, which were published 12 years ago. National Crime Agency/PA Wire Mr Richards also linked a second leading Tory grandee - now dead - to the scandals at homes including Bryn Estyn and Bryn Alyn Hall. He said official documents had identified the pair as frequent, unexplained visitors to the care homes. Scotland Yard have opened three investigations linked to Carroll following revelations in the Daily Mirror. He was jailed for ten years at Liverpool Crown Court in 1999 after admitting 35 offences against 12 boys, both on Merseyside and in Lambeth. Former Lambeth social services director David Pope allowed him to continue running Angell Road despite learning he had been convicted of indecently assaulting a young boy in 1966. Carroll now lives in a half a million pound home near Oswestry, Shropshire. He denies ever meeting the Blair minister. Allen, who made millions from his children's homes, will be sentenced today at Mold crown court after last week being found guilty of 33 sex attacks on children as young as 10. He was jailed in 1995 for six years for child sex abuse.
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
A Home Office spokes-thing said that "Mrs. May is absolutely committed to protecting David Cameron from embarrassment and protecting the guilty from the innocent."
Quote:Westminster 'VIP paedophile ring' inquiry in crisis as child sex abuse victims slam Theresa May
Victims of alleged sex abuse wrote to Theresa May demanding a wider remit and new panel members
Alleged victims of child sexual abuse have warned Theresa May they will withdraw from the Government's controversial official inquiry unless major changes are made.
In an open letter to Home Secretary released today, 24 signatories claimed the inquiry as it stands is "not fit for purpose" because of what it is being asked to examine and the proposed chairs.
The inquiry has been bedevilled with problems since it was announced in July. It is yet to find a chair, following the embarrassing resignations of Baroness Butler-Sloss and Fiona Woolf. The problems intensified with yesterday's written warning from "survivors and associated professionals".
"We were very much hoping to take up the invitations to engage with your ministerial officers to discuss the child sex abuse inquiry but we regret to say we have to decline," they said. "We, alongside many survivors, have made numerous representations to you regarding our view that the inquiry as it stands is not fit for purpose.
"Its terms of reference are inadequate for delivering the original declared intentions of the inquiry, namely to investigate government and Establishment cover-ups of paedophiles in their ranks and aiding bringing the perpetrators to justice.
"Secondly, both your appointees to head the inquiry panel have had to be forced out by survivors because of obvious conflicts of interest, and you have failed to address similar issues regarding other panel appointees.
"Thirdly, that the cut-off date for the inquiry investigations was set at 1970 is highly disturbing given that the 1969 Children's Act transferred Home Office-run youth establishments, from which thousands of abuse allegations eventually emerged."
The signatories said they had no option but to end engagement with the inquiry until Mrs May scrapped the current panel, replacing it "on a transparent basis", declared a statutory inquiry, and extended the cut-off date to 1945.
Mrs May has asked the Home Affairs Select Committee to draw up a list of three chair candidates for her to consider. But committee chairman Keith Vaz said he had insisted Mrs May should identify a "suitable nominee" and allow the committee to examine the individual.
A Home Office spokeswoman said: "The Home Secretary is absolutely committed to ensuring the Independent Panel Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse has the confidence of survivors and that is why she is meeting them and their representatives."
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
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SEX CASES: Cyril Smith, who died in 2010, had been accused of *numerous sex offences against children [PHOTOSHOT] ![[Image: Michael-Carroll-john-allen.jpg]](http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article4727672.ece/alternates/s615/Michael-Carroll-john-allen.jpg)
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