Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Anyone want to discuss HARVEY & LEE?
#21
He did not pursue Norton because he had no independent verification. However, he did prove to my satisfaction that Norton is the original Lee.

After the book was published, Armstrong went back to "civilian life"
as a builder of custom homes. He is still interested, but he no longer
researches.

Jack

What evidence did he provide regarding Norton? I would really like to know what he found out about him.

John
Reply
#22
John Kowalski Wrote:He did not pursue Norton because he had no independent verification. However, he did prove to my satisfaction that Norton is the original Lee.

After the book was published, Armstrong went back to "civilian life"
as a builder of custom homes. He is still interested, but he no longer
researches.

Jack

What evidence did he provide regarding Norton? I would really like to know what he found out about him.

John

John...His chapter on Norton probably ran 100 pages, another reason
for not using it. I would be hard put to summarize it in a few paragraphs.

But John is donating copies of all of his research to the Penn Jones
Collection at Baylor University's Poage Library. Next year it will all
be available online. The research on Norton probably fills a 4" 3-ring
binder. You will be able to study it there.

Jack
Reply
#23
From a 2007 posting by the late Rich DellaRosa on his forum:


Norton for beginners...(posted with permission from Rich DellaRosa.)

..............

Just a brief recap for the newbies:

A person who identified himself as Donald Norton introduced himself to researchers
Mae Brussell and John Judge in the early 1970s and told them he was Lee Oswald.

For a more detailed account see: http://jfkresearch.c...topic,38.0.html

(Mae later told Judge that "Norton had been supporting her radio show by sending
contributions he called CONSCIENCE MONEY...jw)

Several, let's call them researchers, have been muddying the waters regarding this
individual. I have a problem with folks who are careless with research and it has been
demonstrated that when erroneous information gets on the internet it takes on a life
of its own.

In his comprehensive research on the 2 Oswalds, John Armstrong investigated Donald
O. Norton. He spoke to people claiming to know Norton when he was growing up in
Stowe, Ohio, outside of Akron and John traveled to a variety of locations where Norton
had lived and was employed. Armstrong has done more research on Norton than
anyone else I know.

The question, as yet unanswered conclusively, is "Can Donald Oreste Norton be
the man who was born Lee Harvey Oswald in 1939 in New Orleans??"

In 2003, John Armstrong decided not to include Norton in his book Harvey & Lee
because although his research was exhaustive he felt he was less than 100%
certain that Norton is Oswald. John established high standards in performing
his research. I wish all researchers followed suit.

When last we left Lee Oswald in John's book, Lee Oswald was mistaken for Harvey on
11/22/63 by Officer J.D. Tippit. Tippit ostensibly was supposed to locate and kill
Harvey. Lee, in an act of self defense, shot Tippit before Tippit could shoot him.
Lee then walked off into history.

He then seemed to reappear to Judge and Brussell. When news of that encounter
became known, various researchers began a search for Donald O. Norton. Some
tracked him to various locales from Ohio to Florida.

In a case where we find two Oswalds, two Marguerites, two Judyth Bakers (??),
we have two Don Nortons. A Donald P. Norton turned up during the
Garrison investigations in the late 1960s. Donald P. was a homosexual
plant who performed a series of assignments for the CIA and who, while
performing those duties, encountered Oswald and Clay Shaw. Donald P. was
mentioned in Paris Flammonde's book on the Garrison investigation and
it appears that Flammonde has written further about him in subsequent books
and in an upcoming, yet to be released, book. Please note: Donald P. and
Donald O. Norton are 2 separate people, unrelated except for similar names.

John Armstrong last tracked Donald O. Norton to a residence in Jupiter, FL
on the east coast area of Ft Lauderdale. Though John attempted numerous
times to confront Norton, he never came face-to-face with him. It seemed
that Norton kept one step ahead of Armstrong.

In 2003 I ran a People Search report on Donald O. Norton. At that time,
his current residence was listed as Avon Park, FL, about a 45 minute drive
from here. When Armstrong was in my office, I asked him if he was aware
that Norton had apparently moved from Jupiter to Avon Park. He wasn't.

It is important to note that in the report, there was more than one residence
listed for Norton in the past but where Norton never actually resided. One
notable one was in Nevada which curiously had been a residence for
Art Swanson, a self-admitted former CIA employee. That house was owned
or financed by Boatman's bank in St Louis which is believed to be a CIA
front company. Although Norton never actually lived at that address, he
apparently listed that residence on a credit application. Armstrong discovered
another address in Seattle but where neither Norton, nor his wife Lexie,
ever resided.

Now when we came upon this information, we shared it on the forum and a
few individuals began to follow up on some leads and some began to post
on other venues and mis-stated much of the above.

One or two discovered that the Avon Park Norton had colored his hair red
and had adopted the nickname "Red." They further discovered that Red
operated a bait & tackle shop and booked deep sea fishing charters
(a bit strange since Avon Park is not on either of Florida's coasts).

Now one of those guys found an email address for Red and he sent him an
email asking if he was Lee Harvey Oswald? And Red wrote back "No."

Case closed, huh? If nothing else ol' Red knew we found him. Just imagine
someone denying they had a part in a capital offense. Duh.

Add to all this strangeness the fact that recently Red closed his tackle shop
and left Avon Park almost literally over night. Norton has done that before.

Donald O. Norton of Stowe, Ohio was born in 1949 -- which makes him
10 years younger than Lee Oswald. And, it would have made him 14
in 1963. That would seem to rule out Norton being the birth Oswald,
right?

Hmmmmmm, well no, not exactly. Suppose for a moment that a
Donald O. Norton was born in 1949 in Stowe, Ohio in a dysfunctional
family. He went to school there, and he had a real birth certificate and
a real Social Security #. Then something happened -- perhaps he
was killed or MIA in Viet Nam.

If after Lee Oswald killed Tippit, he was to be given a new identity
(name, birth certificate, SS#, etc) rather than given him a bogus,
made up identity what if they gave him Donald O. Norton's ID? All
"they" would need to do was obscure the details of Norton's death.

Few researchers, it seems, are able to grasp this possibility.

That being said, I think there are a few important issues:

* Donald P. Norton and Donald O. Norton are not the same person and they should
not be confused. There is no evidence presented that Donald P. ever impersonated Oswald.

* I t has not been proven that the Avon Park Norton (Red) is the same Norton that
Armstrong tracked to Jupiter, FL.

* John Armstrong chose not to mention Donald O. Norton in his book Harvey &
Lee. Any references to Donald Norton in Harvey & Lee are for Donald P. Norton.

There now is quite a bit of bad info re: Norton floating around the internet and the back
channels of the research community. As responsible researchers we must not add to
the problem.
Reply
#24
as Peter mentions if you do not have this book in your library, then it is not complete, i do not know if judyth has ever had a copy of the book, but i do recall on the alts when it was released that i believe it was martin and others that did have a copy and were posting some information from it to her she did make some responses to some of the information,there were some discussions, but i also recall it was negative in nature,as she did not accept what had been put forth, here is what we got when we purchased it through rich, it was shelby who handled the book and sold them for the first few years...b...also posting Jack's poster...:proud:I believe it was Rich that tucked Jack's photo in the middle...Big Grinb


Attached Files
.jpg   moore_H&L_john_armstrong.jpg (Size: 37.78 KB / Downloads: 30)
.jpg   photos_chart.jpg (Size: 70.4 KB / Downloads: 35)
Reply
#25
Hello again

This thread has prompted me to begin re-reading Harvey and Lee. On page 46 it reads: "Marguerite and Lee arrived in New York City in late August in her 1948 Dodge. They dropped in unexpectedly at the Pic's apartment while John was at work. Pic's young wife, Marge, was not happy to see them." Now, was this Marguerite the tall good looking one or the short fat Marguerite? Secondly, just so I sort things out as I continue reading; John Pic and Robert Oswald are the sons of the tall good looking Marguerite, right?

More questions to come

Brian
Reply
#26
Brian Anderson Wrote:Hello again

This thread has prompted me to begin re-reading Harvey and Lee. On page 46 it reads: "Marguerite and Lee arrived in New York City in late August in her 1948 Dodge. They dropped in unexpectedly at the Pic's apartment while John was at work. Pic's young wife, Marge, was not happy to see them." Now, was this Marguerite the tall good looking one or the short fat Marguerite? Secondly, just so I sort things out as I continue reading; John Pic and Robert Oswald are the sons of the tall good looking Marguerite, right?

More questions to come

Brian

I think you are correct.

Jack
Reply
#27
Jack White Wrote:From a 2007 posting by the late Rich DellaRosa on his forum:


Norton for beginners...(posted with permission from Rich DellaRosa.)

..............

Just a brief recap for the newbies:

A person who identified himself as Donald Norton introduced himself to researchers
Mae Brussell and John Judge in the early 1970s and told them he was Lee Oswald.

For a more detailed account see: http://jfkresearch.c...topic,38.0.html

(Mae later told Judge that "Norton had been supporting her radio show by sending
contributions he called CONSCIENCE MONEY...jw)

Several, let's call them researchers, have been muddying the waters regarding this
individual. I have a problem with folks who are careless with research and it has been
demonstrated that when erroneous information gets on the internet it takes on a life
of its own.

In his comprehensive research on the 2 Oswalds, John Armstrong investigated Donald
O. Norton. He spoke to people claiming to know Norton when he was growing up in
Stowe, Ohio, outside of Akron and John traveled to a variety of locations where Norton
had lived and was employed. Armstrong has done more research on Norton than
anyone else I know.

The question, as yet unanswered conclusively, is "Can Donald Oreste Norton be
the man who was born Lee Harvey Oswald in 1939 in New Orleans??"

In 2003, John Armstrong decided not to include Norton in his book Harvey & Lee
because although his research was exhaustive he felt he was less than 100%
certain that Norton is Oswald. John established high standards in performing
his research. I wish all researchers followed suit.

When last we left Lee Oswald in John's book, Lee Oswald was mistaken for Harvey on
11/22/63 by Officer J.D. Tippit. Tippit ostensibly was supposed to locate and kill
Harvey. Lee, in an act of self defense, shot Tippit before Tippit could shoot him.
Lee then walked off into history.

He then seemed to reappear to Judge and Brussell. When news of that encounter
became known, various researchers began a search for Donald O. Norton. Some
tracked him to various locales from Ohio to Florida.

In a case where we find two Oswalds, two Marguerites, two Judyth Bakers (??),
we have two Don Nortons. A Donald P. Norton turned up during the
Garrison investigations in the late 1960s. Donald P. was a homosexual
plant who performed a series of assignments for the CIA and who, while
performing those duties, encountered Oswald and Clay Shaw. Donald P. was
mentioned in Paris Flammonde's book on the Garrison investigation and
it appears that Flammonde has written further about him in subsequent books
and in an upcoming, yet to be released, book. Please note: Donald P. and
Donald O. Norton are 2 separate people, unrelated except for similar names.

John Armstrong last tracked Donald O. Norton to a residence in Jupiter, FL
on the east coast area of Ft Lauderdale. Though John attempted numerous
times to confront Norton, he never came face-to-face with him. It seemed
that Norton kept one step ahead of Armstrong.

In 2003 I ran a People Search report on Donald O. Norton. At that time,
his current residence was listed as Avon Park, FL, about a 45 minute drive
from here. When Armstrong was in my office, I asked him if he was aware
that Norton had apparently moved from Jupiter to Avon Park. He wasn't.

It is important to note that in the report, there was more than one residence
listed for Norton in the past but where Norton never actually resided. One
notable one was in Nevada which curiously had been a residence for
Art Swanson, a self-admitted former CIA employee. That house was owned
or financed by Boatman's bank in St Louis which is believed to be a CIA
front company. Although Norton never actually lived at that address, he
apparently listed that residence on a credit application. Armstrong discovered
another address in Seattle but where neither Norton, nor his wife Lexie,
ever resided.

Now when we came upon this information, we shared it on the forum and a
few individuals began to follow up on some leads and some began to post
on other venues and mis-stated much of the above.

One or two discovered that the Avon Park Norton had colored his hair red
and had adopted the nickname "Red." They further discovered that Red
operated a bait & tackle shop and booked deep sea fishing charters
(a bit strange since Avon Park is not on either of Florida's coasts).

Now one of those guys found an email address for Red and he sent him an
email asking if he was Lee Harvey Oswald? And Red wrote back "No."

Case closed, huh? If nothing else ol' Red knew we found him. Just imagine
someone denying they had a part in a capital offense. Duh.

Add to all this strangeness the fact that recently Red closed his tackle shop
and left Avon Park almost literally over night. Norton has done that before.

Donald O. Norton of Stowe, Ohio was born in 1949 -- which makes him
10 years younger than Lee Oswald. And, it would have made him 14
in 1963. That would seem to rule out Norton being the birth Oswald,
right?

Hmmmmmm, well no, not exactly. Suppose for a moment that a
Donald O. Norton was born in 1949 in Stowe, Ohio in a dysfunctional
family. He went to school there, and he had a real birth certificate and
a real Social Security #. Then something happened -- perhaps he
was killed or MIA in Viet Nam.

If after Lee Oswald killed Tippit, he was to be given a new identity
(name, birth certificate, SS#, etc) rather than given him a bogus,
made up identity what if they gave him Donald O. Norton's ID? All
"they" would need to do was obscure the details of Norton's death.

Few researchers, it seems, are able to grasp this possibility.

That being said, I think there are a few important issues:

* Donald P. Norton and Donald O. Norton are not the same person and they should
not be confused. There is no evidence presented that Donald P. ever impersonated Oswald.

* I t has not been proven that the Avon Park Norton (Red) is the same Norton that
Armstrong tracked to Jupiter, FL.

* John Armstrong chose not to mention Donald O. Norton in his book Harvey &
Lee. Any references to Donald Norton in Harvey & Lee are for Donald P. Norton.

There now is quite a bit of bad info re: Norton floating around the internet and the back
channels of the research community. As responsible researchers we must not add to
the problem.

Jack: Thanks for all of this. But I think it most odd that Norton would introduce himself to John Judge and Mae Brussell as LHO and that the powers that be would then let him live.

My deep cover friend Jay Harrison (who died 5/25/05) always said that LHO shot Tippit. Jay was on the Dallas police force on 11/22/63. I assumed he meant the person we now know as Harvey but it makes total sense that he meant the other one. Lee.
I had always believed that Tipppit was to shoot Harvey and when he failed he was killed.

Dawn
ps Jim We are all waiting for an OJ moment.
Reply
#28
Didn't they find the real Oswald's dental match in the exhumation?
Reply
#29
Albert Doyle Wrote:Didn't they find the real Oswald's dental match in the exhumation?

That is a whole other can of worms. Don't have time now to open it.
"The real Oswald" gets into Harvey & Lee.

Jack
Reply
#30
Jack White Wrote:JVB denies that anything in H&L is true. She knew only Harvey.
Harvey is the one who was employed briefly at Reily Coffee.
She believes that he is the ONE AND ONLY LHO who ever existed.
If she were to read H&L, she will dispute parts of it which do not
fit her story as she has done for years.

Jack

It is very hard to take Judyth seriously on this one. She has not read the darn book. Yes she only knew Harvey, the patsy blamed for shooting JFK.

Jack are you close at all with Walt Brown? As you know for these pages Walt inherited all Jay's work. When J wauld say LHO killed Tippit I just ignored him to avoid an arguement as I thought he was talking about the LHO we know. Who killed noone. I would love to know what Jay knew about Lee.

Did John leave his work on Norton at Baylor too? Next time I go to Dallas I will have to stop there.

Dawn
Reply


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  INDISPUTABLE Evidence for Harvey & Lee Sandy Larsen 1 2,115 10-02-2018, 06:14 AM
Last Post: Jim DiEugenio
  More Evidence for Harvey & Lee -- Oswald was missing a MOLAR, but his exhumed body was not! Sandy Larsen 0 1,362 07-02-2018, 04:40 AM
Last Post: Sandy Larsen
  State of Texas vs Lee Harvey Oswald: Autopsy x rays Jim DiEugenio 40 31,924 07-12-2017, 10:00 AM
Last Post: Cliff Varnell
  J Norwood: "Lee Harvey Oswald: The Legend and the Truth" Jim Hargrove 12 5,544 04-04-2017, 03:02 PM
Last Post: Jim Hargrove
  Jack Ruby, Gordon McLendon, and "Lee Harvey Oswald" Jim Hargrove 30 58,935 14-10-2016, 02:44 AM
Last Post: Scott Kaiser
  Who Was Lee Harvey Oswald - by Joan Mellen Peter Lemkin 4 4,107 20-11-2013, 07:21 AM
Last Post: Albert Doyle
  Lee Harvey Oswald and the CIA by bill simpich Bernice Moore 2 2,415 31-08-2011, 06:12 PM
Last Post: Albert Doyle
  Jonathan Demme deserves a medal for doing a film about Lee Harvey Oswald --YEAH A B/S MOVIE...B Bernice Moore 1 2,013 16-08-2011, 04:01 AM
Last Post: Bernice Moore
  City Of Dallas Gets OK To Demolish Lee Harvey Oswaldâs Apartment Bernice Moore 5 2,678 29-07-2011, 05:59 PM
Last Post: Albert Doyle
  Armstrong's Hypothosis - Harvey and Lee - Applied to Tippit Peter Lemkin 52 21,060 17-02-2011, 11:46 PM
Last Post: Charles Drago

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)