Bigger Than Enron - Madoff Pyramid Scheme

[Magda Hassan]

The thing about Madoff is no different to anything else that is going on except for the fact that he stole from his own kind. Everyone was asleep at the wheel (except a few female journos as in Enron) because they were too busy gorging themselves at the same trough. I see a bait and switch happening here. All the talk is about "How could this have happened?" Yawn... the same as all the others. In the mean time with attention here at the $50 billion robbery the $8 trillion dollar robbery is still ongoing un-noticed and unpunished.

[Myra Bronstein]

I think the difference is that Madoff has ripped off mostly rich investors, whereas the normal corporate world mostly just robs the masses.

The rich hate being robbed by one of their own. There'll be fire and brimstone fury over this, but out of the public gaze.

Exactly right Mark. Enron was, IMO, much worse morally. It victimized employees/working stiffs in addition to pensioners and of course stock owners. The employees were not in it to gamble, they were just trying to work for an honest buck.

Whereas Madoff investors were gamblers. That's what investment at that level is. It's more of a gamble than it should be due to the lack of proper regulation in the post-JFK era, but it's still gambling and participants should know that.

Madoff messed with the wrong people and Kenny Boy didn't.

As an aside, how many here believe that Kenny Boy is alive and well and that the timing if his "death" is simply incredible? I do.

[Keith Millea]

As an aside, how many here believe that Kenny Boy is alive and well and that the timing if his "death" is simply incredible?

Count me in on this one Myra.With money anything is possible..........

Keith

[David Guyatt]

I have to say that Madoff was worse than simple gambling imo.

Investors piled into Madoff's fund because they thought he was running an insider trading scam. In other words they primarily invested with him on the understanding they were becoming part of a criminal enterprise.

To that extent Madoff differs little with Enron and all the other criminal scams that litter US financial history.

[Peter Lemkin]

Investors piled into Madoff's fund because they thought he was running an insider trading scam. In other words they primarily invested with him on the understanding they were becoming part of a criminal enterprise.

:p I wonder if the RICO statutes can be used to try and charge almost all of that type of 'trader'....

[Mark Stapleton]

I was wrong. Madoff won't be flayed alive, it'll be kid gloves for Bernie and a comfortable retirement of endless weekends.

I got this from the blog of former EF memeber Sid Walker and, unfortunately, it seems to ring true.

A commentator named Muhammad Rafeeq suggests the reason Madoff has pleaded guilty to fraud is to enable the wealthy Jewish investors in his enterprises to recoup the losses via the US Government fraud recovery legislation. If it's not fraud then you can't recoup any losses. According to Rafeeq, US tax authorities have already indicated that in such a case of fraud the losses may be offset against existing tax liabilities.

In any case, had Madoff chosen to fight fraud charges in court, then it would be have been tough because........most of the records are missing!!

Chortle.

The schmucks pay again.


http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41361

[Magda Hassan]

Oh, that does ring true doesn't it?
Endless weekends at Bernie's.
Fancy those records gone, hey, you'd have thought.

I did hear Madoff was under 'house arrest'. Why isn't he sharing a remand cell with Butch McDick like every other schmuck?

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[Mark Stapleton]

Oh, that does ring true doesn't it?
Endless weekends at Bernie's.
Fancy those records gone, hey, you'd have thought.

I did hear Madoff was under 'house arrest'. Why isn't he sharing a remand cell with Butch McDick like every other schmuck?

That's what probably would have happened had Madoff not pleaded guilty to fraud--and thus made it possible for the rich investors to recoup their losses.

Now he'll be OK. After he gets his slap on the wrist, he'll be able to kick back in one of his mansions in NYC. If things get a little hot for Bernie, then he can always consider a comfortable retirement in Israel with all the other billionaire investors. But they won't go until they've squeezed every last drop out of the hapless American taxpayer.

[David Guyatt]

I'm not sure I buy into that false guilty plea angle. The argument that big banks like Santander, HSBC, Nomura, Royal Jock, Natixis, Man, Fortis and many, many others wouldn't have allowed investments to be made in Madoff's fund because the credit risk committee would've picked up how shaky (and crooked) Madoff actually was, doesn't entirely hold water.

There is history to the contrary. Greed makes for wild decisions. For example, the whole of Wall Street - both as institutions and individually as board members - not to mention nations like Italy - and God alone knows how many Swiss banks and others around the world all piled into Long Term Capital Management with eyes wide open and mouths drooling.

LTCM was headquartered in Greenwich, Connecticut.

Besides that it is shaping up stragely, because investors dating back years may be required to hand back their profits. Some, who pulled out of Madoff's fund prior to it going down the tube may even have to return their principal and profits (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2...kFmYaaw5sY)

There is also the interesting angle that another entity, Fairfield Greenwich Group may have been fraudulently involved by profiting from introducing funds into Madoff's fund (see: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/22/busine...ld.html?hp).

It seems that Fairfield Greenwich Group is headquartered in Greenwich, Connecticut too.

[Peter Lemkin]

And now the first death by an 'investor'....a Frenchman, found with multiple cuts to his wrists and forearm....strange way for a millionaire to end his life.