The deposit slip that was never stamped by the bank

[Gil Jesus]

Not only did the FNB of Chicago not stamp money orders, I guess they never stamped deposit slips as well.

The alleged Klein's deposit slip of 3/13/63 ( Waldman 10 ) has a date
of 2/15/63 and is not stamped by the First National Bank of Chicago,
which it should have been had it been deposited.

http://i56.tinypic.com/11gi0w6.jpg

[Tom Scully]

Edited in response to Jim Hargrove....

Sandy Larsen posted the following diagram on another forum showing how to decipher the Hollerith Code punches on the uncashed, unprocessed money order allegedly used to purchase the rifle.



Remember that this is the back of the form, and so everything is backward. Reading the round holes at left above from right to left, the holes represent the money amount: 02145, or $21.45. To the right, again reading from right to left, the square holes represent the serial number: 2202130462.

NONE of the punches represent processing by any other financial institution. Despite speculative posts by Brian Castle on Greg Parker's forum and by David Von Pein on EF, and others, the evidence is clear that this money order was never cashed, never deposited, and never processed by any financial institution.

Tom seemed to indicate above that the holes could have represented info from other financial institutions at a slightly different date, but I don't think this is true. At a very minimum, punched holes of this sort would have to represent the financial institution routing number, or name and distinguishing address, and a date, and that would require quite a few more punches.

All the above was started by John Armstrong's write-up that can be read here: http://harveyandlee.net/Guns/Guns.html

I should have added information about how real financial documents from "Lee Harvey Oswald's" era were handled. Below are photostatic copies of vouchers issued to Lee Harvey Oswald by the Texas Employment Commission. Note all the stamps, front and back, by various financial institutions that processed the documents.



USPS money orders, like other financial documents, could be processed by banks, post offices, and some other financial institutions, requiring a variety of stamps indicating the processing. Note all the financial institution stamps on the front and back of the cancelled paychecks shown below from Leslie Welding to "Lee Oswald."



More on John A's research on this uncashed, unprocessed so-called "evidence" can be found here: http://harveyandlee.net/MoneyOrder.html

[size=12]A number of people have been trying to debunk John's simple analysis of the fraudulent money order, but all these people offer is pure speculation, unsupported by the simple evidence. This isn't complicated.


[/SIZE]

[Brian Castle]

All in a day's work.... cost me a night's sleep, putting this together, but......

Sorry Brian, Jean, and DVP, Banks Did Not Key-Punch 1963 P.O. Money Orders




"We are all outlaws in the eyes of America ....."

Actually, I seem to recall they did. It was the very first year, as I recall reading. Let's talk about this, this is an important issue.

And as long as Gil's here, let's do this right. (Hi Gil, nice to meet you, I've been following your work for quite a while).

So now, I happen to know a little bit about 1963 computer technology. There are two sets of punch holes on the money order, one set is square (the "ordinary" card-type punch holes that we all know and love), and the other set is round. If my hunch is on target, the square ones use the Hollerith code (that was the commonly used keypunch code in the day, it was a selectable output format of pretty much any and all existing keypunch machines at the time). The round holes, however, are non-Hollerith as near as I can tell, and I don't know what that format might be. Anyone know?

I'd like to know exactly what numbers are being shown there, in those keypunch holes. We should be able to decode that, right? Maybe we'll find that they represent payer numbers, and maybe we'll find they're complete garbage. I'm not aware that anyone's done this verification yet, this is still an open question isn't it?

I'd like nothing better than to be able to show those punched "numbers" (if that's what they are) are complete garbage. That would be yet another smoking gun, together with the sequence number and everything else.

[David Josephs]

Excellent work Tom... thanks...

Not only are we missing the Nat'l Bank of Chicago's processing marks but the clearinghouse remains the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago.

WCD7 p193 - Fed Res Bank of ChicagoLESTER GOHR explains that the Fed Res processes 130,000 PMO daily.

From http://www.ctka.net/2015/JosephsRiflePart1.pdf

Appendix B Processing Postal Money Orders[/FONT]

1. Purchaser of the PMO designate a"Payee" and fills out the purchaser's information
2. Purchaser pays for the PMO Postalclerk tears PMO from stub and hands to Purchaser
3. Purchaser provides PMO to designatedPayee for deposit in exchange for goods/services
4. Payee endorses the back of the PMO anddeposits PMO in their Bank
5. The Bank will then PROCESS the PMO, addingwhatever marks, electronic or otherwise to the back of the PMO and record thepayment to Payee in their records


6. The Bank, now the new Payee, forwardsthe PMO to their affiliated Federal Reserve Bank for reimbursement of funds andprocessing USPS Fed Res Sys process


a. All money orders are forwarded throughthe Federal Reserve Banking System, to which commercial banks have access
i. For this standard: Money order means a U.S. Postal Money Order.
b. The postmaster general has the usualright of a drawee to examine money orders presented for payment by banksthrough the Federal Reserve System and to refuse payment of money orders, andhas a reasonable time after presentation to make each examination. Provisional credit is given to the FederalReserve Bank when it furnishes the money orders for payment by the postmastergeneral. Money orders are deemed paid only after examination is completed,subject to the postmaster general's right to make reclamation under 3.4.
c. The presenting bank and the endorser of a money orderpresented for payment are deemed to guarantee to the postmaster general thatall prior endorsements are genuine, whether an express guarantee to that effect is placedon the money order. When an endorsement is made by a person other than thepayee personally, the presenting bank and the endorser are deemed to guaranteeto the postmaster general, in addition to other warranties, that the person whoso endorsed had capacity and authority to endorse the money order for thepayee.
d. The postmaster general has the right to demand refundfrom the presenting bank of the amount of a paid money order if, after payment,the money order is found to be stolen, or to have a forged or unauthorized endorsement,or to contain any material defect or alteration not discovered on examination. Such right includes, but is notlimited to, the right to make reclamation of the amount by which a genuinemoney order with a proper and authorized endorsement has been raised. Suchright must be exercised within a reasonable time after the postmaster generaldiscovers that the money order is stolen, bears a forged or unauthorizedendorsement, or is otherwise defective. If refund is not made by the presentingbank within 60 days after demand, the postmaster general takes such actions asmay be necessary to protect the interests of the United States.


7. The Federal Reserve Bank will recordthe transaction and also include markings on the back of the PMO in accordanceto their batch processing rules.
a. Today, the Federal Reserve BankingSystem (FRBS) processes everything electronically yet fairly recently the paperproducts themselves were sent through Batch Processing machines. Section 7040 of Chapter 7000 of the"Procedures for Processing Postal Money Orders" tells us:
i. Section 7040 -Processing Fit MoneyOrders
7030.25 -Fit Money Order. A money order that can becompletely processed on high speed processing equipment.
· Batching and Listing Fit Money Orders. Paper money orders are MICR printed withthe routing code (including a routing number of 0000-0020 or 000000204) and theserial number with check digit. The routing number is also preprinted inthe upper right corner on the form, which is in the location and front asprescribed by the ABA.

FRBs will process FIT money orders asfollows:

· Receive money orders from banks and process on high speedequipment in the manner most compatible with the processing of other categoriesof cash items.
· Prepare batches of no more than 500 items.
· Insert (in numerical sequence) USPSbatch Locator Control Documents so that one is filed at the beginning of each batch ofmoney orders to be read.
· Create a paper-tape list of serialnumbers with optional check digit and amount of each money order read. The list will show the batch numberand a subtotal for each batch with an overall total of all money orders listedon the paper tape.
· The total amount of fit items should be entered on PSForm 1901, code 100.
· Money orders bearing unreadable MICR characters in theon-us field are not to be rejected and handled as mutilated. List thecharacters that can be read on the paper tape as a reconcilement aid.

ii. Section 7040 & 7050 (Manualprocess)
[FONT=Symbol]· 7050.20 -Insert a USPS Batch Locator Control Document atthe beginning of each batch of mutilated money orders.
· 7050.30 -Prepare an adding machine listing of each batchshowing the following information:
a. FRB name or code at the top.
b. The amount of each item.
c. The total amount of the batch.
d. FRB clearance date.
e. Batch number

iii. Section 7070 - Processing Old StyleMoney Orders
· "Punch card" money orders that have the ABArouting number 0000-0119 will be handled as mutilated items. They should beidentified as old style "punch card" money orders on the PS Form 1901for code 004

[Drew Phipps]

My punch card skills are 40 or more years old, (and they weren't great in those days either) but the square holes look to read:

3 3 1 3 2 4 1 5 7 3. . . 0........ 0 (think double character may be letter "I" 9th letter)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .9

and the round holes might be 1 3 2 5 7.

You might also add one to those if I had the baseline wrong:

4 4 2 4 3 5 2 6 9 5

and 2 4 3 6 8

none of which really seem to correlate with the amount $21.45.
Edit: wasn't there something in the JFK lore about the money order being $26.95?

Correction: Hah hah. I should have subtracted 1 instead:

2 2 0 2 1 3 0 4 6 2 which is the number of the money order

and then 0 2 1 4 6 : I guess it could be a 5, which matches exactly.

and then the double strike hole would be the letter G, perhaps

[Tom Scully]

Edited in response to Jim Hargrove.....

Sandy Larsen posted the following diagram on another forum showing how to decipher the Hollerith Code punches on the uncashed, unprocessed money order allegedly used to purchase the rifle.



Remember that this is the back of the form, and so everything is backward. Reading the round holes at left above from right to left, the holes represent the money amount: 02145, or $21.45. To the right, again reading from right to left, the square holes represent the serial number: 2202130462.

NONE of the punches represent processing by any other financial institution. Despite speculative posts by Brian Castle on Greg Parker's forum and by David Von Pein on EF, and others, the evidence is clear that this money order was never cashed, never deposited, and never processed by any financial institution.

Tom seemed to indicate above that the holes could have represented info from other financial institutions at a slightly different date, but I don't think this is true. At a very minimum, punched holes of this sort would have to represent the financial institution routing number, or name and distinguishing address, and a date, and that would require quite a few more punches.

All the above was started by John Armstrong's write-up that can be read here: http://harveyandlee.net/Guns/Guns.html

I should have added information about how real financial documents from "Lee Harvey Oswald's" era were handled. Below are photostatic copies of vouchers issued to Lee Harvey Oswald by the Texas Employment Commission. Note all the stamps, front and back, by various financial institutions that processed the documents.



USPS money orders, like other financial documents, could be processed by banks, post offices, and some other financial institutions, requiring a variety of stamps indicating the processing. Note all the financial institution stamps on the front and back of the cancelled paychecks shown below from Leslie Welding to "Lee Oswald."



More on John A's research on this uncashed, unprocessed so-called "evidence" can be found here: http://harveyandlee.net/MoneyOrder.html

[size=12]A number of people have been trying to debunk John's simple analysis of the fraudulent money order, but all these people offer is pure speculation, unsupported by the simple evidence. This isn't complicated.


[/SIZE]

[Jim Hargrove]

Sandy Larsen posted the following diagram on another forum showing how to decipher the Hollerith Code punches on the uncashed, unprocessed money order allegedly used to purchase the rifle.



Remember that this is the back of the form, and so everything is backward. Reading the round holes at left above from right to left, the holes represent the money amount: 02145, or $21.45. To the right, again reading from right to left, the square holes represent the serial number: 2202130462.

NONE of the punches represent processing by any other financial institution. Despite speculative posts by Brian Castle on Greg Parker's forum and by David Von Pein on EF, and others, the evidence is clear that this money order was never cashed, never deposited, and never processed by any financial institution.

Tom seemed to indicate above that the holes could have represented info from other financial institutions at a slightly different date, but I don't think this is true. At a very minimum, punched holes of this sort would have to represent the financial institution routing number, or name and distinguishing address, and a date, and that would require quite a few more punches.

All the above was started by John Armstrong's write-up that can be read here: http://harveyandlee.net/Guns/Guns.html

[Tom Scully]

Edited in response to Jim Hargrove,

Sandy Larsen posted the following diagram on another forum showing how to decipher the Hollerith Code punches on the uncashed, unprocessed money order allegedly used to purchase the rifle.



Remember that this is the back of the form, and so everything is backward. Reading the round holes at left above from right to left, the holes represent the money amount: 02145, or $21.45. To the right, again reading from right to left, the square holes represent the serial number: 2202130462.

NONE of the punches represent processing by any other financial institution. Despite speculative posts by Brian Castle on Greg Parker's forum and by David Von Pein on EF, and others, the evidence is clear that this money order was never cashed, never deposited, and never processed by any financial institution.

Tom seemed to indicate above that the holes could have represented info from other financial institutions at a slightly different date, but I don't think this is true. At a very minimum, punched holes of this sort would have to represent the financial institution routing number, or name and distinguishing address, and a date, and that would require quite a few more punches.

All the above was started by John Armstrong's write-up that can be read here: http://harveyandlee.net/Guns/Guns.html

I should have added information about how real financial documents from "Lee Harvey Oswald's" era were handled. Below are photostatic copies of vouchers issued to Lee Harvey Oswald by the Texas Employment Commission. Note all the stamps, front and back, by various financial institutions that processed the documents.



USPS money orders, like other financial documents, could be processed by banks, post offices, and some other financial institutions, requiring a variety of stamps indicating the processing. Note all the financial institution stamps on the front and back of the cancelled paychecks shown below from Leslie Welding to "Lee Oswald."



More on John A's research on this uncashed, unprocessed so-called "evidence" can be found here: http://harveyandlee.net/MoneyOrder.html

[size=12]A number of people have been trying to debunk John's simple analysis of the fraudulent money order, but all these people offer is pure speculation, unsupported by the simple evidence. This isn't complicated.


[/SIZE]

[Jim Hargrove]

Sandy Larsen posted the following diagram on another forum showing how to decipher the Hollerith Code punches on the uncashed, unprocessed money order allegedly used to purchase the rifle.



Remember that this is the back of the form, and so everything is backward. Reading the round holes at left above from right to left, the holes represent the money amount: 02145, or $21.45. To the right, again reading from right to left, the square holes represent the serial number: 2202130462.

NONE of the punches represent processing by any other financial institution. Despite speculative posts by Brian Castle on Greg Parker's forum and by David Von Pein on EF, and others, the evidence is clear that this money order was never cashed, never deposited, and never processed by any financial institution.

Tom seemed to indicate above that the holes could have represented info from other financial institutions at a slightly different date, but I don't think this is true. At a very minimum, punched holes of this sort would have to represent the financial institution routing number, or name and distinguishing address, and a date, and that would require quite a few more punches.

All the above was started by John Armstrong's write-up that can be read here: http://harveyandlee.net/Guns/Guns.html

I should have added information about how real financial documents from "Lee Harvey Oswald's" era were handled. Below are photostatic copies of vouchers issued to Lee Harvey Oswald by the Texas Employment Commission. Note all the stamps, front and back, by various financial institutions that processed the documents.



USPS money orders, like other financial documents, could be processed by banks, post offices, and some other financial institutions, requiring a variety of stamps indicating the processing. Note all the financial institution stamps on the front and back of the cancelled paychecks shown below from Leslie Welding to "Lee Oswald."



More on John A's research on this uncashed, unprocessed so-called "evidence" can be found here: http://harveyandlee.net/MoneyOrder.html

[size=12]A number of people have been trying to debunk John's simple analysis of the fraudulent money order, but all these people offer is pure speculation, unsupported by the simple evidence. This isn't complicated.


[/SIZE]

[Tom Scully]

Translation, Jim.... John and you know what you know and are uninterested in newly uncovered information and uhhhh let's interject a large variety of other documents into the mix (Leslie Welding pay checks, etc.) besides 1963 Post Office money order tabulating cards. Got it!

http://harveyandlee.net/Guns/Guns.html
...........
All US Postal Money orders have unique serial numbers. In the fall of 1962, Oswald purchased numerous money orders from the same downtown post office and mailed them to Washington, DC in order to repay a loan from the government for his travel expenses incurred when he returned to the USA from Russia. These money orders were purchased in numerical sequence beginning in November, 1962. These serial numbers show that some 1200 money orders per week were purchased at the downtown post office in Dallas. At this rate we see that Oswald's alleged purchase of a money order on March 12, 1963 should have been numbered 2,202,011,935. But the serial number of the money order published in the Warren Volumes was more than 118,000 numbers higher. At the rate of 1200 money order per week, this money order should have been purchased in late 1964 or early 1965. In other words, this money order could easily have been pulled from a stack of fresh, unsold money orders by a postal official in Dallas, sometime after the assassination, and then given to the FBI. A close look at the details surrounding the "finding" of the money order the day after the assassination strongly suggests that this is what happened.

History indicates there is another explanation for the jump in the March, 1963 Dallas P.O. issued money order serial number, vs. 1962 Dallas issued money order serial numbers.:

November 29, 1962, ........post offices in the regions issuing yellow money orders.
Postmasters in the Regions concerned will destroy by burning all unused blue-tint money
orders on hand after January 4, 1963, and will attach a certification to the Forms 6125, 6126, or 1846-B submitted for the Postal Quarter ending January 4, 1963, reading as follows:
"This certifies that I have destroyed by burning the blue-tint money orders on hand at this office after the close of business January 4, 1963 bearing consecutive serial numbers----- (First Serial #) to (Last Serial #)

--------- ----------

-----------------------
Postmaster

------- -------"
City State

"....the sequence in the numbering and packing of the yellow money orders has been changed......"
(See below)