JFK Jr

[Magda Hassan]

And I'll delete these admin posts as well.

[Greg Burnham]

Thanks for all your effort on this, Magda. Please don't forget to delete this post, as well...and this one...and this one...and this one... ==== :lol: Couldn't resist!

[Seamus Coogan]

Thanks for all your effort on this, Magda. Please don't forget to delete this post, as well...and this one...and this one...and this one... ==== :lol: Couldn't resist!

Cool Magda thanks a bunch. I do look forward to seeing the debates and research going on in this thread.

[Adele Edisen]

Years ago on the Rich DellaRosa forum we had discussions about the death of John Kennedy, Jr., his wife Carolyn, and his sister-in-law, Lauren Bessette. About that time John Hankey had introduced his DVDs on the assassination of JFK and one on the death of his son, John, Jr. Along with John, Jr., his wife Carolyn, his sister-in-law Lauren Bessette, and possibly a flight instructor who was thought to have been aboard the Piper Saratoga plane with them perished in an unusual airplane crash in to the sea near Martha's Vinyard where they were to land and drop off Lauren Bessette so she could meet her good friend, Carole Radziwill. They then would proceed to Hyannis Port to spend the weekend at family wedding festivities.

From my readings of books written by John's friends, associates, colleagues, and cousin's wife, Carole Radziwill, I find it entirely possible that John did have a flight instructor with him. He was not quite totally familiar with his newly acquired plane, a Piper Saratoga, so he would very frequently fly with an instructor. Also, he was logging in more instrument-time flying for which he needed to be under the supervision of a flight instructor. Another problem was that he was still using crutches and limping due to an earlier ankle injury. In order to maneuver a plane on the ground, he needed full use of the foot pedals to do this, and probably would have asked his flight instructor to perform this task.

Richard Blow, an editor of his GEORGE Magazine spoke with him on that Friday afternoon before he left for the airport in New Jersey where his plane was stored. John told him that he would have a flight instructor flying with him. Carole Radziwill, who was waiting at Martha's Vinyard Airport the arrival of Lauren Bessette, became greatly concerned when the plane was delayed. She called a flight instructor with whom she was familiar from previous flights to tell his wife of the delay, and was surprised when he answered the phone. Obviously, another instructor had been chosen in New Jersey. She describes her experiences that night in her book, WHAT REMAINS: A Memoir of Fate, Friendship and Love.

John Hankey states that the the body of a flight instructor was not found. We know from the National Transportation Safety Board's Report that the seat in which the flight instructor would have been occupying next to John's pilot seat was missing from the debris found of the wreckage at the bottom of the sea, 150 feet below. The other three occupants' bodies were found strapped in their seats, all of which were bolted to the floor of the cabin. John's flight log which would record details of the flight from take-off to destination would also list passengers and any other personnel, was kept in an aqua colored flight bag. Some luggage and the flight bag washed up on shore, but the flight bag did not contain the Flight Log Book.

John Hankey proposed that the flight istructor was suicidal, or rather had been programmed to be suicidal by the murderers. This was based on the crash of an Egyptian military plane, flying from the US to Egypt in which a deranged pilot had overpowered the pilots in the cabin of the plane and made the plane plunge into the sea. Hankey proposed that the body of the flight instructor had to be removed from John's plane so that it would appear that the only pilot on board was John and the crash could be described as due to pilot error. The perpretrators had plenty of time to accomplish this, as the wreckage was not found for a few days.

However, other investigators have suggestd that some kind of explosive device was placed on the plane before take-off at the New Jersey airport.

Eye-witnesses on the beach overlooking the crash site saw flashes of light in the dark sky about the time of John's plane approach to the Martha's Vinyard Airport. According to the National Transportation Safety Board's Report, the distribution of debris from the plane's crash was very widespread and I would attribute that to an explosion in the air. Rich DellaRosa told me that he thought it had been done with a "pressure bomb". Sherman Skolnick, Scott Meyers, and John DiNaerdo investigators mentioned by Greg Burnham on this topic have concluded similarly.

It is both curious and suspicious that John's plane went down around 9:30 PM, Friday, July 16, 1999. Yet it took all of Saturday, Sunday, Monday until Tuesay when the wreckage was found. According to John Hankey, the Pentagon was brought in to do the searchng and it seems that they were flying in a wide elliptical pattern of about two hundred miles in width along the coast from Martha's Vinyard toward New York. The site of the crash was about seven miles east of Martha's Vinyard and the exact latitude and longitude coordinates of the plane just before it crashed had been radioed by John Kennedy to the Martha's Vinyard Airport Tower as was required of planes preparing to land as they drop in altitude to the required 2500 feet before beginning their final descent. There was no haze in the vicinity as reported by other pilots coming to land around that same time, and the airport lights were visible from the air. Since the Airport Tower's radar followed the descent of the plane, the wreckage should have been very easy to locate.

Adele

[Dawn Meredith]

Don really interesting post. I do think Jan summed it up really well. I liked the theatre line and yeah lol. I do think Jacks work on Roscoe White was pretty damn good actually. The 9/11 stuff hmmmmm I am a bit weary of. In saying that JW is a far more pleasent individual than JF. He also gave a fantastic account of himself in the JVB debate some time ago.

As for your take on Hankey. Well this is where it all gets a little confusing for me.

I have no firm opinion on what my Dawn friend?

I may have passed brief comment on Hankey in regards to JFK Jr. But I have never, ever written a critical piece about the JFK Jr plane crash nor about John Hankeys take on it. You may call me unfair but after seeing John Hankey's crap in JFK II, I can be forgiven for being a little judgmental. Further Dawn I know you read very little of my work because you don't like it. Fair enough.

But now you have no problem commenting on essay's I have never written.

And you think I'm the crazy one here ROFL.

Let's be very clear about this.

Dawn for umpteenth time I have discussed the case with Lisa. LISA PEASE okay. More than enough to know that the Manchurian candidate flight instructor angle as advocated by Hankey is utter bollocks. Anybody can safely say that whether they are into the case or not. Sorry, its that type of bullshit. Now what part of me saying I enjoy Lisa's take didn't you get the first time? My communication skills surely aren't that horrific lol.
Just in case they are let me spell it out to you again in summary.

I have commented yet have never written a piece critical on Hankeys JFK Jr. If I was commenting on Hankey I was doing so from Lisa Peases stand point. going to go with anyone on JFK Jr it would be your pal and mine Lisa Pease. She is not a lying lunatic like John Hankey. Okay very simple English Dawn. Conversation over and out as far as I am concerned its driving me bloody spare lol.

Seamus and all,

Perhaps it is just me...but, Seamus: I have a difficult time of it--deciphering your rhetoric--and figuring out your meaning. Not always, but often. It appears to very possibly be a simple cultural difference in the use of various nuances of language. I have often taken your meaning much stronger than it later appeared you intended. A New Zealander might have immediately understood, but I did not. That door seems to have swung both ways, as well. This is not meant as a criticism or as a means to gloss over perhaps significant differences. It is suggested merely as a possibility.

Greg: It's not just you. He tells me "simple english" but....what can I say? mileymad:

Dawn

What scared me more was my spelling, syntax and grammar lol. But no Dawn I am not flip flopping nor have I ever on this issue. Yes I wrote the review and I worked on another with Frank Casano. I have never ever denied writing and participating with those articles in anyway shape or form. But I really don't know where this JFK Jr stuff came from. I really would like to know when or were my essay critcising John Hankey is about JFK Jr...you seem to know? I really want to see it. I also want to know what the hell I have to do with John Hankey and JFK Jr? Maybe Im just curious lol. But yeah whats the deal mate? I am totally miffed about it all.

Seamus: For me the confusion came up and was cleared up yesterday. Hankey did TWO videos. Apparently the critique you did was only on one of them. I read your review some time back. I have seen both videos but not for a long time. I see now that the second one is on JFK Jr. I will have no further comment until I have:
1. watched both videos again and 2. read your review again.

In the meantime I look forward to the work mentioned by Greg and Don.

Dawn

[Dawn Meredith]

Years ago on the Rich DellaRosa forum we had discussions about the death of John Kennedy, Jr., his wife Carolyn, and his sister-in-law, Lauren Bessette. About that time John Hankey had introduced his DVDs on the assassination of JFK and one on the death of his son, John, Jr. Along with John, Jr., his wife Carolyn, his sister-in-law Lauren Bessette, and possibly a flight instructor who was thought to have been aboard the Piper Saratoga plane with them perished in an unusual airplane crash in to the sea near Martha's Vinyard where they were to land and drop off Lauren Bessette so she could meet her good friend, Carole Radziwill. They then would proceed to Hannisport to spend the weekend at family wedding festivities.

From my readings of books written by John's friends, associates, colleagues, and cousin's wife, Carole Radziwill, I find it entirely possible that John did have a flight instructor with him. He was not quite totally familiar with his newly acquired plane, a Piper Saratoga, so he would very frequently fly with an instructor. Also, he was logging in more instrument-time flying for which he needed to be under the supervision of a flight instructor. Another problem was that he was still using crutches and limping due to an earlier ankle injury. In order to maneuver a plane on the ground, he needed full use of the foot pedals to do this, and probably would have asked his flight instructor to perform this task.

Richard Blow, an editor of his GEORGE Magazine spoke with him on that Friday afternoon before he left for the airport inNew Jersey where his plane was stored. John told him that he would have a flight instructor flying with him. Carole Radziwill, who was waiting at Martha's Vinyard Airport the arrival of Lauren Bessette, became greatly concerned when the plane was delayed. She called a flight instructor with whom she was familiar from previous flights to tell his wife of the delay, and was surprised when he answered the phone. Obviously, another instructor had been chosen in New Jersey. She describes her experiences that night in her book, WHAT REMAINS: A Memoir of Fate, Friendship and Love.

John Hankey states that the the body of a flight instructor was not found. We know from the National Transportation Safety Board's Report that the seat in which the flight instructor would have been occupying next to John's pilot seat was missing from the debris found of the wreckage at the bottom of the sea, 150 feet below. The other three occupants' bodies were found strapped in their seats, all of which were bolted to the floor of the cabin. John's flight log which would record details of the flight from take-off to destination would also list passengers and any other personnel, was kept in an aqua colored flight bag. Some luggage and the flight bag washed up on shore, but the flight bag did not contain the Flight Log Book.

John Hankey proposed that the flight istructor was suicidal, or rather had been programmed to be suicidal by the murderers. This was based on the crash of an Egyptian military plane, flying from the US to Egypt in which a derangexd pilot had overpowered the pilots in the cabin of the plane and made the plane plunge into the sea. Hankey proposed that the body of the flight instructor had to be removed from John's plane so that it would appear that the only pilot on board was John and the crash could be described as due to pilot error. The perpretrators had plenty of time to accomplish this, as the wreckage was not found for a few days.

However, other investigators have suggestd that some kind of explosive device was placed on the plane before take-off at the New Jersey airport.

Eye-witnesses on the beach overlooking the crash site saw flashes of light in the dark sky about the time of John's plane approach to the Martha';s Vinyard Airport. According to the National Transpiortation Safety Board's Report, the distribution of debris from the plane's crash was very widespread and I would attribute that to an explosion in the air. Rich DellaRosa told me that he thought it had been done with a "pressure bomb". Sherman Skolnick, Scott Meyers, and John DiNaerdo investigators mentioned by Greg Burnham on this topic have concluded similarly.

It is both curious and suspicious that John's plane went down around 9:30 PM, Friday, July 16, 1999. Yet it took all of Saturday, Sunday, Monday until Tuesay when the wreckage was found. According to John Hankey, the Pentagon was brought in to do the searchng and it seems that they were flying in a wide elliptical pattern of about two hundred miles in width along the coast from Martha's Vinyard toward New York. The site of the crash was about seven miles east of Martha's Vinyard and the exact latitude and longitude coordinates of the plane just before it crashed had been radioed by John Kennedy to the Marthas Vinyard Airport Tower as was required of planes preparing to land as they drop in altitude to the required 2500 feet before beginning their final descent. There was no haze in the vicinity as reported by other pilots coming to land around that same time, and the airport lights were visible from the air. Since the Airport Tower's radar followed the descent of the plane, the wreckage should have been very easy to locate.

Adele

Many thanks Adele for summerizing some of the major evidence in this case.
Dawn

[Seamus Coogan]

Seamus and all,

Perhaps it is just me...but, Seamus: I have a difficult time of it--deciphering your rhetoric--and figuring out your meaning. Not always, but often. It appears to very possibly be a simple cultural difference in the use of various nuances of language. I have often taken your meaning much stronger than it later appeared you intended. A New Zealander might have immediately understood, but I did not. That door seems to have swung both ways, as well. This is not meant as a criticism or as a means to gloss over perhaps significant differences. It is suggested merely as a possibility.

Greg: It's not just you. He tells me "simple english" but....what can I say? mileymad:

Dawn

What scared me more was my spelling, syntax and grammar lol. But no Dawn I am not flip flopping nor have I ever on this issue. Yes I wrote the review and I worked on another with Frank Casano. I have never ever denied writing and participating with those articles in anyway shape or form. But I really don't know where this JFK Jr stuff came from. I really would like to know when or were my essay critcising John Hankey is about JFK Jr...you seem to know? I really want to see it. I also want to know what the hell I have to do with John Hankey and JFK Jr? Maybe Im just curious lol. But yeah whats the deal mate? I am totally miffed about it all.

Seamus: For me the confusion came up and was cleared up yesterday. Hankey did TWO videos. Apparently the critique you did was only on one of them. I read your review some time back. I have seen both videos but not for a long time. I see now that the second one is on JFK Jr. I will have no further comment until I have:
1. watched both videos again and 2. read your review again.

In the meantime I look forward to the work mentioned by Greg and Don.

Dawn

No problems Dawn.

[Charles Drago]

Do you recall that a distress beacon of the sort expected to be aboard JFK Jr's aircraft was picked up in the middle of Long Island Sound -- a significant distance from where the plane ultimately would be located -- within a suitable post-disappearance time frame to prompt the launch of search efforts in the area?

An operation, perhaps, to misdirect rescuers in the event that one or more members of Kennedy's party had survived the crash?

Survival time in those waters was relatively brief, after all.

And by the time searchers arrived at the mysterious beacon's location ...

No beacon to be found.

Ever.

[Peter Lemkin]

Do you recall that a distress beacon of the sort expected to be aboard JFK Jr's aircraft was picked up in the middle of Long Island Sound -- a significant distance from where the plane ultimately would be located -- within a suitable post-disappearance time frame to prompt the launch of search efforts in the area?

An operation, perhaps, to misdirect rescuers in the event that one or more members of Kennedy's party had survived the crash?

Survival time in those waters was relatively brief, after all.

And by the time searchers arrived at the mysterious beacon's location ...

No beacon to be found.

Ever.

Hmmm.....this is new to me, and VERY interesting and SIGNIFICANT, IMO!

[Charles Drago]

I vividly recall seeing a map displayed by one of the 24-hour news stations. There was a flashing icon representing the distress beacon. It was located west of center in Long Island Sound. Rescue flotillas were on the way.

Next thing reported: No wreckage. No beacon. No nothin'.

Control and delay of rescue efforts as elements of an assassination operation ... hmmm ... If JFK Jr. had been targeted for assassination via, oh, let's say a staged auto "accident" which for a number of logistical reasons had to take place at a location just four miles away from a major hospital, and if JFK Jr. had survived the crash, might that four-mile journey have been controlled to take at least, oh, let's say seventy minutes?

Where do I get these ideas?