JFK's Tie Knot

[Bob Prudhomme]

If you look closely they don't align. The Maltese Cross icon is slightly off-center to the row it is lined up with.


It is not surprising that a near alignment would occur because if you look at the pattern both the vertical and horizontal patterns are in an evenly-spaced grid.


But if you have good eyesight you can see the seam between the two different tie sections.


According to the damage there should be other parts of the tie that are damaged.

Here is something else to think about. Look again at the Archives photo:



While it may appear that, in this photo, five rows vertically may be the same measurement as five rows horizontally, this is not actually the case. Being a tie, it is only natural that, through several wearings, the tie would be stretched lengthwise.

I measured the middle horizontal row in this photo, using a ruler up against my monitor, and found it to be 77 mm from the outside edge of one outside icon to the outside edge of the other outside icon.

I then measured the middle vertical row in this photo in the same way, and found it to be 114 mm icon to icon. This is to be expected, as this row of icons is running lengthwise on the tie, and prone to stretching with wear.

Any lengthwise stretching will also tend to compress the rows of icons running across the tie.

So, in this photo of the tie,



the two vertical rows of icons on the face of the knot are in the group of icons that measured 114 mm/five icons, while, according to the beliefs of some, the two single icons above them are in a vertical section of tie, and belong to the group of icons that measured 77 mm/five icons.

With such a difference in spacing between horizontal and vertical rows, how is it that all six icons are aligned so perfectly? Shouldn't the top two icons be noticeably closer to each other?

[Alan Ford]

Point well taken, Mr. Prudhomme, in respect to the stretching dynamic upon the material length-wise over the course of regular use, especially the repeated pulling down motion to set the knot in place time and time again.

Not to mention observing more than a handful of colleagues on a daily basis that tug downward on their ties amid fidgeting with it during the course of the day. So, yes, regular use incurs stretching of the material.

[David Josephs]

Please correct me if I'm wrong... if that was a bullet it would need to go thru the tie and create much more than one tear/hole in the fabric.

There could be 3 even 4 different spots on the entire tie which would show a rip or hole... not one.




I did find this though... same blood stain, same pattern, same hole... the rest of that row of patterns must have been folded under.

I can't seem to get my old version of Photoshop to great a gif... sorry.

[Alan Ford]

You make a couple of valid points, Mr. Josephs, but no great surprise given the source. In respect to your first point, I also wonder if an actual bullet round tore it's way through the president's back, then suddenly pole-vaulted upwards of five inches somehow (they say magically), then through the back of the neck base all the way through to the front-flesh of the neck, then onward through the initial stages of shirt fabric, then onto the knotted tie surface in the rear, then all the way through to the front of the knotted tie, yet (rather than leave the tie ragged, heavily torn throughout) the surface bears a mere nick only...

In respect to the blood you've noted sir, a nurse on duty at Parkland medical also noted a small hole in the president's neck with blood oozing out slowly (her words, not mine).

Of course, the question that begs to be answered here is where is the bullet hole on the tie?

Even the president's front shirt material is void of a bullet hole, though it does bear a couple of small slits suggesting it was surgically cut, but, again, no distinct, unmistakable bullet hole in the tie or in front of the shirt akin to what we see in rear footage of both his jacket and shirt.

[Bob Prudhomme]

From a post of mine at the Education Forum, JFK Assassination Debate:



See how the vertical row of icons, that mostly contains the nick, has a round icon as the number 5 icon (counting from the bottom)? By matching up the tie knot, as worn by JFK in this black and white photo, with the knot Ashton has tied from the Archives photo tie, the row of icons with the nick can only match the B & W photo row of icons on JFK's anatomical right; IF we believe the tie was only five icons wide at this point.

This now places the nick closer to the centre of the tie knot, and away from the edge of the tie knot. As we have determined already that the nick only goes through the coloured portion of the tie, and not through what appears to be a white backing layer in the tie, placing the nick in the position above eliminates the possibility of this nick being caused by a projectile; either entering or exiting JFK's throat, as this would have made a hole completely through the tie.

If we eliminate a projectile as the cause of this nick, we then must find something else that made this nick.

The only possible explanation so far has been put forward by Ashton Gray. According to him, an assassin, armed with a syringe sporting a 1/4" diameter needle, injected an untraceable poison into JFK's throat at the level of the 3rd tracheal ring which, coincidentally, is precisely the preferred location for a tracheostomy site. To explain the nick that does not go completely through the tie, Mr. Gray hypothesizes that the assassin, in haste and carelessness, first accidentally inserted the tip of the 1/4" needle into JFK's tie knot in his attempt to insert this needle through JFK's collar, realized his mistake, pulled the tie aside and then inserted the needle through his collar and into his throat; ultimately injecting the poison there.

There are a number of problems with this theory.

First, the blood stain on the tie.




I don't know about the rest of you but, I find it a bit spooky that there is blood on the coloured part of the tie while the backing material, seen through the nick, is still a nice sparkling white. Also, if the nick was on the front of the tie knot, why is the spread of the blood stain, seen above in the Archives photo, contained to what would be the front and left edge of the tie? If it was coming from a hole made in the shirt collar, shouldn't we see a blood stain extending all the way to the top of the photo, as the material near the top of the photo would have been at the back of the tie knot, and in contact with the shirt?

In order for a 1/4" diameter needle to take a nick out of a tie, it would have to be extremely sharp. I don't know if all of you can comprehend just how big a 1/4" needle is but, I can tell you that it is huge. I work with copper and plastic tubing a lot, and I cannot imagine using a needle this big. Anyways, if this needle was so sharp it was able to cut out a plug of tie material (an oblong one at that) why did it make a ragged tear in the right side of JFK's trachea? For that matter, how did such a sharp round tipped instrument make a tear in the side of the trachea at all? A tear like that is more indicative of something passing through at a high velocity.

But getting back to the tie, here is how to place the nick on the anatomical left side of JFK's tie knot. Looking at Ashton's tie knot, simply add a square icon to the top of the vertical row containing the nick, making it six icons high. This vertical row now has six icons (the prevailing number of icons seen on the rest of the tie) in it with a square icon at its top. It now matches the row of icons seen on the anatomical left of JFK's tie knot in this photo below, and the nick would be on the left edge of the tie knot:

[Bob Prudhomme]

You make a couple of valid points, Mr. Josephs, but no great surprise given the source. In respect to your first point, I also wonder if an actual bullet round tore it's way through the president's back, then suddenly pole-vaulted upwards of five inches somehow (they say magically), then through the back of the neck base all the way through to the front-flesh of the neck, then onward through the initial stages of shirt fabric, then onto the knotted tie surface in the rear, then all the way through to the front of the knotted tie, yet (rather than leave the tie ragged, heavily torn throughout) the surface bears a mere nick only...

In respect to the blood you've noted sir, a nurse on duty at Parkland medical also noted a small hole in the president's neck with blood oozing out slowly (her words, not mine).

Of course, the question that begs to be answered here is where is the bullet hole on the tie?

Even the president's front shirt material is void of a bullet hole, though it does bear a couple of small slits suggesting it was surgically cut, but, again, no distinct, unmistakable bullet hole in the tie or in front of the shirt akin to what we see in rear footage of both his jacket and shirt.

Actually, the whole point of my argument re: 5 vertical icons in the tie knot vs. 6 vertical icons centres around the nick being in the anatomical left vertical row of icons instead of the right vertical row. This would place the nick on the left outer edge of the tie knot, and allow a projectile to pass trough only the outer coloured layer of fabric.

Where the projectile came from is another question altogether, although I can assure you it was not the back wound.

[Drew Phipps]

There is simply no way for that single tear to be caused by a projectile coming either towards or away from the body thru the tie. Even assuming that its a single Windsor knot, that's at least four layers of fabric for a projectile to pass through. A Double Windsor, which I am certain is the preferred type for high society types, would have 6 or more.

(I'll sacrifice a tie to illustrate my point later.)

If you don't have 4 - 6 tears, and incidentally, 4 - 6 bloodstains, there is simply no way for that to be a projectile. If there is only one bloodstain, it had to come from a) the head shot blood falling down and being blown back towards him by the wind, or b) a co-incidental transfer stain from some other blood covered surface that came into contact with the tie, or c) being planted there deliberately.


I feel confident that the "hypodermic needle into the tie knot" theory is horseradish (PS: if the hypothetical needle only pierced the tie, how did the blood get there?). The only explanation for this single tear is the one from the operating room: the slit (in the blue material) happened when the operating room staff was removing his clothing to care for him.

One more remark: A round projectile passing through fabric wouldn't leave a nice round hole.

[Drew Phipps]

Here's my experimental equipment:



The tie is tied in a single Windsor know, which involves the least layers of fabric.



I then insert the coat hanger in the approximate position the tear is pictured above.



Another angle:




I then untie the fabric and circle the holes I made. Here's the front of the tie:



Here's the backside:

Huh. Can't that one to upload. Lemme end this replay and start another.

[Drew Phipps]

It shows 2 holes in the back of the tie. That surprised me, then I realized that the two holes close to each other (on the front picture, right center) are in and out holes...so the coathanger must have passed thru that particular section of the knotted tie when it was either very nearly parallel, or folded, to the direction of the coathanger, piercing one side of the tie twice but not the other side.

At any rate, we have 6 holes: three sets of in-out holes. You can clearly see that anything passing out of the throat and tearing the knot in the front would pass through multiple layers of fabric.

[Alan Ford]

You make a couple of valid points, Mr. Josephs, but no great surprise given the source. In respect to your first point, I also wonder if an actual bullet round tore it's way through the president's back, then suddenly pole-vaulted upwards of five inches somehow (they say magically), then through the back of the neck base all the way through to the front-flesh of the neck, then onward through the initial stages of shirt fabric, then onto the knotted tie surface in the rear, then all the way through to the front of the knotted tie, yet (rather than leave the tie ragged, heavily torn throughout) the surface bears a mere nick only...

In respect to the blood you've noted sir, a nurse on duty at Parkland medical also noted a small hole in the president's neck with blood oozing out slowly (her words, not mine).

Of course, the question that begs to be answered here is where is the bullet hole on the tie?

Even the president's front shirt material is void of a bullet hole, though it does bear a couple of small slits suggesting it was surgically cut, but, again, no distinct, unmistakable bullet hole in the tie or in front of the shirt akin to what we see in rear footage of both his jacket and shirt.

Actually, the whole point of my argument re: 5 vertical icons in the tie knot vs. 6 vertical icons centres around the nick being in the anatomical left vertical row of icons instead of the right vertical row. This would place the nick on the left outer edge of the tie knot, and allow a projectile to pass trough only the outer coloured layer of fabric.

Where the projectile came from is another question altogether, although I can assure you it was not the back wound.

Sharp attention to detail all around, Mr. Prudhomme. The introduction of your observations surrounding the vertical and horizontal layout inconsistencies upon the tie is indirectly cancelling the check on the alleged exploits of the so called magic bullet. Well done sir!

Shifting gears, in respect to the placement of the nick, your excellent point is well taken; however, what are the chances that the photo image we are viewing is possibly inverted? The reason I ask is during some reading earlier today while following your contributions over at the EF, a Parkland nurse in Trauma 1 noted that the throat wound lay more to the right side of the president's neck (essentially in agreement with your placement of the nick). Yet in the photo the nick aligns right instead of left.

What makes you so confident in your statement here, quote, "Where the projectile came from is another question altogether, although I can assure you it was not the back wound."? Does your confidence have anything to do with Dr. Humes' inability to find an actual exit path for the back wound? That would certainly explain why neither the tie nor the president's shirt has an actual exiting bullet hole. At the very least, IF an actual bullet had come in contact with the knotted tie there would be more extensive damage than a mere nick.

Say, Arlen, you got a sec'?