Conspiracy Realists and Conspiracy Loons

[Tracy Riddle]

I'm not the only one on this forum who has been labeled a "conspiracy loon," "wacko," or something similar over the years, often by someone in the political mainstream or center-right. But I think that most of us here consider ourselves "conspiracy realists." We try to do actual research, dig up real evidence, and attempt to prove our theories with logic and reason. We know that a lot of useful information can be acquired from mainstream media sources, that they're biggest problem is failing to follow up on stories, or connect the dots.

I'm used to dealing with all the people who won't believe something unless it's published on page 1 of the New York Times. I'm used to be "outside the mainstream," and having to quote from established media sources to prove some point to debunkers.

Now I'm trying to get my mind around an incoming President who makes up his own facts, who traffics in conspiracy theories like Ted Cruz's dad being involved in the JFK assassination. His supporters have far more contempt for the corporate media than I ever did, and get their news from the worst sort of bottom-dwelling, money-making fiction-peddlers imaginable (as I've tried to document in this thread):

https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/sho...EWADtIrKyc

Alex Jones used to be someone I considered marginal at best (in his early years), with occasional good guests like Webster Tarpley, but now he is clearly just running a merchandising empire. And yet here is Jones today with a direct pipeline into the Trump White House. The worst traditions of American hucksterism are on display here. The resounding ignorance of many Americans makes them a good market for this kitty litter posing as news and information.

[Lauren Johnson]

I'm not the only one on this forum who has been labeled a "conspiracy loon," "wacko," or something similar over the years, often by someone in the political mainstream or center-right. But I think that most of us here consider ourselves "conspiracy realists." We try to do actual research, dig up real evidence, and attempt to prove our theories with logic and reason. We know that a lot of useful information can be acquired from mainstream media sources, that they're biggest problem is failing to follow up on stories, or connect the dots.

I'm used to dealing with all the people who won't believe something unless it's published on page 1 of the New York Times. I'm used to be "outside the mainstream," and having to quote from established media sources to prove some point to debunkers.

Now I'm trying to get my mind around an incoming President who makes up his own facts, who traffics in conspiracy theories like Ted Cruz's dad being involved in the JFK assassination. His supporters have far more contempt for the corporate media than I ever did, and get their news from the worst sort of bottom-dwelling, money-making fiction-peddlers imaginable (as I've tried to document in this thread):

https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/sho...EWADtIrKyc

Alex Jones used to be someone I considered marginal at best (in his early years), with occasional good guests like Webster Tarpley, But now he is clearly just running a merchandising empire. And yet here is Jones today with a direct pipeline into the Trump White House. The worst traditions of American hucksterism are on display here. The resounding ignorance of many Americans makes them a good market for this kitty litter posing as news and information.

And despite all of this, we're still the ones who are the "conspiracy loons" and "wackos." ::facepalm::

[Tracy Riddle]

And despite all of this, we're still the ones who are the "conspiracy loons" and "wackos." ::facepalm::

Actually, I think we may make up the lonely mainstream now, between the corporate media establishment and the alt-right nuts. ::

[Lauren Johnson]

And despite all of this, we're still the ones who are the "conspiracy loons" and "wackos." ::facepalm::

Actually, I think we may make up the lonely mainstream now, between the corporate media establishment and the alt-right nuts. ::

From my personal perspective, people still know I am still a little off the rails, but who means well. It would be nice if there was some credibility coming our way.

[David Guyatt]

When the US elite were allowed to go down the road of selfish greediness, reckless lying, deceit, murder, mayhem and the abandonment of core democratic principles (decades in the making - almost certainly as far back as 1963 - quite likely as far back as 1939, in fact) -- and then made far worse by the perpetual war doctrine and de facto fascist mandate that 9/11 was manufactured to usher in... where else was the US going to go but further downhill?

It has been a failed state/banana republic and global bully for a long time now.

Most Americans, in my experience, simply turned a blind eye and continued to munch on their burger, slurp from their Coke can and utter the "I'm alright Jack" mantra whilst pretending none of this was really happening.

Sad to say (and I am genuinely sad), but a nation blindly trooping down the road to pandemonium has been there to see for any and all who cared to look these past decades.

[Cliff Varnell]

When the US elite were allowed to go down the road of selfish greediness, reckless lying, deceit, murder, mayhem and the abandonment of core democratic principles (decades in the making - almost certainly as far back as 1963 - quite likely as far back as 1939, in fact)

1939?

Google -- the Gilded Age; the Monroe Doctrine; opium/slave trades.

[Tracy Riddle]

When the US elite were allowed to go down the road of selfish greediness, reckless lying, deceit, murder, mayhem and the abandonment of core democratic principles (decades in the making - almost certainly as far back as 1963 - quite likely as far back as 1939, in fact)

1939?

Google -- the Gilded Age; the Monroe Doctrine; opium/slave trades.

The war with Mexico, the war of 1812, the ethnic cleansing of Native Americans, the Filipino insurrection...Yeah, this was never our country and we were foolish to think that it actually might change for the better someday.

[Cliff Varnell]

When the US elite were allowed to go down the road of selfish greediness, reckless lying, deceit, murder, mayhem and the abandonment of core democratic principles (decades in the making - almost certainly as far back as 1963 - quite likely as far back as 1939, in fact)

1939?

Google -- the Gilded Age; the Monroe Doctrine; opium/slave trades.

The war with Mexico, the war of 1812, the ethnic cleansing of Native Americans, the Filipino insurrection...Yeah, this was never our country and we were foolish to think that it actually might change for the better someday.

It's always been an on-going battle for this country to live up to its stated ideals.

Some times are tougher than others.

This is one of those times.

[David Guyatt]

My thinking, when settling on the 1939 date, was centred on the origin of the CFR's War & Peace Studies project (1939-45) which was the period when the US elite saw (and grabbed) the opportunity to become the world's dominant power/global hegemony effectively taking over from the dwindling British empire.

The British elite (the Oxford Group / Rhodes kindergarten) saw the necessity for this transition of power by the latter part of the 1800's. They went on to found Chatham House following WWI and jointly initiated the CFR as the "sister" entity of the RIIA to become the principal tool of the Anglo-American Establishment.

Most everything else that has subsequently followed - for argument's sake we can call it a gradual consolidation - is pretty well summed up in Ivan's post today in this same folder (The Hidden Forces Guiding the US Government).

Which is really a long way round to repeat what I said above about how surprised can anyone really be that the US has become a failed state in recent decades?

It's all been hanging out there in plain view: COG, the suspension of Habeas Corpus, the modifications to the Posse Comitatus Act, the changes to the Insurrection Act, state sanctioned torture, state sanctioned kidnapping, state sanctioned murder, the militarization of law enforcement and so on and so forth.

[Magda Hassan]

From my personal perspective, people still know I am still a little off the rails.....

I like to think we are the light at the end of the tunnel ::captain::

When the US elite were allowed to go down the road of selfish greediness, reckless lying, deceit, murder, mayhem and the abandonment of core democratic principles (decades in the making - almost certainly as far back as 1963 - quite likely as far back as 1939, in fact)

1939?

Google -- the Gilded Age; the Monroe Doctrine; opium/slave trades.

The war with Mexico, the war of 1812, the ethnic cleansing of Native Americans, the Filipino insurrection...Yeah, this was never our country and we were foolish to think that it actually might change for the better someday.

Yes. Foolish indeed. Yet my understanding of first nation people is that they are incredibly generous, understanding and compassionate to those who find themselves marooned in their countries and unable to return. They do however expect their existence to be respected.