Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
John Lennon would be 70 today
#21
I just finished Fenton Bresler's book 'Who Killed John Lennon'.


Because Mark David Chapman pled guilty there was never any real investigation into the background, evidence, or motives behind his killing of John Lennon. Fenton Bresler was a British barrister who didn't accept this lack of investigation and took it upon himself to look deeper. 'Who Killed John Lennon' looks at the strange existence of Mark David Chapman in an attempt to detect evidence of covert influence on his mind by shadowy agencies. Bresler faced a hard task not only because of the total lack of investigation into the mind control angle but also because very few of those involved wanted to volunteer any input. Never the less Bresler managed to identify some very incriminating circumstantial and factual evidence to make the possibility Chapman was hypnotically programmed very real.

After studying this case on the internet I presented in public my theory that the allegorical message of Holden Caulfield's dream in 'Catcher In The Rye' was a directly symbolic and motivational cause of the assassination. Upon finally reading 'Who Killed John Lennon' I was stunned to find that Chapman's only statement at his trial was to open 'Catcher' and read the part containing that very passage about the dream sequence. To me that was a resounding confirmation of my theory. It also points strongly toward something very sinister and evil that Bresler tried to prove with his book. Having studied the diabolical doings of covert agencies in regard to mind control assassination the fact Chapman pointed to this psychological clue is not a good sign. Being familiar with the evil pattern those agencies operate within it is very likely that Chapman's declaration of 'Catcher' explaining why he killed Lennon is a proxy statement being delivered by a programmed patsy. The people who commit such evil acts as mind control assassination are highly intelligent personalities who possess the eccentricities and arrogant psychopathic traits that those superior personalities tend to have. These are the kind of people who would add the flourish and 'calling card' finishing touch to their assassination by having the patsy read their death sentence against the executed individual in court by this nefarious means. These people know the gravity of what they did and need to compensate for it by morally and legally justifying it. To them their act of execution of John Lennon is something that was justified by grand terms. It was an execution carried-out by the guardians and overseers of the national security state and by the means and methods they usually practice. What Mark David Chapman was reading to Judge Edwards was a very diabolical national security death sentence delivered by indirect symbolic means.

When you study what Chapman read to the judge it is a dream sequence where the main character, the "catcher", is in a field of high-growing rye with hundreds of children running around free and happy unaware of a precipitous cliff on the edge of the rye they can't see. It is the job of the "catcher" to keep the children who stray towards the cliff from falling over, hence 'The Catcher In The Rye'. I believe what this is is a very cynical and very darkly-delivered message from the people who programmed Mark David Chapman to kill Lennon. Those evil men acted on a national security basis and therefore delivered a formal death sentence in court, in very morally-deviant form, using their programmed patsy. The message was to be delivered that Lennon died because he was leading America's children toward a cliff, and Mark David Chapman was the 'catcher'. You have to understand how people who are capable of mind control hypnosis think. These are people who see themselves in an almost Nazi way of lawless superiority. They are the same kind of people who would hope to send this legally-untraceable message, and hope people would figure it out, for profound impact, and, therefore, untouchable power.

I hope people read this book because Bresler builds-up a good case of additional evidence that points toward Mark David Chapman being unknowingly controlled by others. Others who had serious political assassination motives.
Reply
#22
You may well be correct or on the right trail....at this point I'm not [yet] convinced as to whether MDC read his programming script of his own 'volition' (sic!), or that his programmers wanted him to, as you posit....but either way it is as cynical as you say. Sadly, also, either way the programmers knew (and know) few will figure it out...even that you and others have figured and/or pointed it out. Sending 'Jolly' West to visit J. Ruby was rather obvious, but how many know it even happened - let alone its significance? Ditto your points on MDC. Sirhan's not remembering what happened and not being allowed to be deprogrammed further are also obvious..and one could go on and on here.... They don't care. 'They' are basically saying [in this example Dallas]: "Yes, we murdered the most popular President right in the middle of the street, in the middle of the day, in the middle of his security detail, in Middle American - and what are you going to do about it - what can you do about it - NOTHING! Spy

It is the old story of the Emperor's New Clothes over and over and over and over again [and again....] with all of the covert ops, mind-control ops, bankster ops, etc. The Sheeple are programmed themselves with TV, the 'American Religion of Exceptualism' and blind belief in 'the System', having been purposely dumbed-down, naive of history and the ever repeating patterns in it, propaganda from all media and PR firms, junk-food diets, out of touch with Nature and Natural Philosophy...and I could go on.


If the current financial meltdown doesn't awaken the sleeping/programmed masses, you can kiss America's arss goodbye...and they won't even know what 'hit' them as they perish.... :alberteinstein: 'Tis the sad end of an even sadder Empire, and failed experiment IMHO. Better luck next time...if there is a next time.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
Reply
#23
Peter Lemkin Wrote:You may well be correct or on the right trail....at this point I'm not [yet] convinced as to whether MDC read his programming script of his own 'volition' (sic!), or that his programmers wanted him to, as you posit....but either way it is as cynical as you say.


You don't know how glad I am you wrote that because it is perfectly in line with what we know. My first thoughts were Bresler makes a strong case but it is still possible Chapman "programmed" himself in a way that was identically similar to covert mind control. It is possible Chapman had a borderline personality prone to schizophrenic tendencies and the extreme traumatic experience of boyhood drug use and LSD exacerbated this into a disturbed condition. Let's just say that such personalities are doing to themselves exactly what the MK-ULTRA controllers were doing to their subjects. You could make a very good argument that Mark Chapman created this huge psychological rift between high school drug use and born again christianity, which were at such opposite extremes that they created a mental schism that caused Chapman to become unstable. The reason the MK-ULTRA group used LSD was because it had such bizarre effects of the mind. A person who has his psyche influenced by this pseudo-schizophrenic aspect of LSD could enter a bizarre world where things take on the extreme illumination and magically-interpreted meanings of the schizophrenic state. In light of this it is very possible Chapman had managed to MK-ULTRA program himself and had tuned himself to irrational wavelengths of schizophrenic notions imparted to him by this LSD altered state where things take on magical or even divinely-inspired meaning.

The reason I'm overjoyed at what you wrote is because it shows you understand the most important subtle clues about this difficult mental phenomenon. You impressed me because you wrote exactly what I was going to write in my next reply. That is that the larger political influences surrounding both Chapman and Lennon were intense enough on their own to have pushed Chapman towards this resolve based only on the general unavoidable direction those forces ultimately moved in. It is possible Chapman shot Lennon because of the unique psychological confluence of Chapman's LSD-disturbed mind in coordination with his grandiose religious inclinations. What Mark Chapman might not be able to admit directly is he shot John Lennon as a christian act in order to punish that which he felt violated his christianity and caused him to seek refuge in it after his sinful drug life. The christianity supercharged his sense of self and life mission while the LSD mental disturbance gave it a particular illumination that was seen as divine and therefore not resistible. If this is the case then Chapman didn't kill Lennon for fame, nor did he kill him to become him, he killed him because it was a divine mission to carry out the objective of christian religion as he understood it and as it was communicated to him in a special magical way that appeared to his LSD-compromised mind as divine influence. A mind that has been stressed by life and motivated by the high passions of religion can be extremely vulnerable to acting on irrational impulse justified by internalized higher designs. Add LSD to this and you are through the looking glass as far as mental cogency. At this point, as you say, the overt 'cynicism' of the general process is enough to move the individual in the same way any controllers would have and is therefore impossible to separate. Mark David Chapman would therefore be a personality who happened to define his grandiosity by means of the very same political forces that both John Lennon and his enemies defined themselves by. This wasn't as much coincidence as it was an affirmation that those political forces were so sharply defined and polarized that a person of Chapman's mental condition would automatically fall into them. If Mark Chapman wasn't programmed by CIA spooks then he was programmed by the strong political backdrop that those CIA politics came from like the YMCA, political christianity, and his interaction with CIA Viet Nam refugees, and southern police officers. So you are keenly on the bead here because at that point it really doesn't make any difference, the influence was exactly the same and CIA would have been given a freebie at that point by an automatically self-MK-ULTRA programmed proxy assassin. Chapman never would have killed Lennon for christian purposes alone, but he would have killed him for the divine mission those christian influences created in his LSD-disturbed mind when those stresses pushed it to the breaking point which resulted in driving Chapman into this magical Catcher In The Rye fantasy land. It was in that fantasy land that the magical interpretations now made sense and connected to christian justifications. If it did happen this way then Lennon's enemies just lucked out that coincidental forces drove Chapman exactly the same way their mind programming would have with the same results.

However I don't think it happened that way. If you look at Chapman's history he ended up in the YMCA. Some CIA agents who quit the agency and admitted some of their practices said CIA used YMCA as cover and a recruiting source. Like Lee Harvey Oswald Chapman's first move after joining the YMCA was to try to get a camp counselor job with the YMCA in Russia. Not getting this he then ended up in Beirut but was forced out by the escalation of the civil war there. Russia and Beirut were not christian destinations as much as they were CIA ones. From Beirut Chapman ended up becoming a helper for fleeing Viet Namese refugees at Fort Chaffee Arkansas. Those refugees were of course persons who had strong CIA contact. This was a highly CIA-type of activity moving in circles directly-connected to CIA interests. Bresler notes that when Chapman finished this job he was picked-up by his Georgia Sheriff's trooper friend Dana Reeves, the same man who gave him the hollow point bullets that killed Lennon.

Before Chapman married he took an expensive around the world trip on a loan from his credit union. Chapman was a low-income worker without any collateral. These people are usually not given loans for expensive whims. Bresler speculates that Chapman's covert controllers made sure he got that loan as reward for whatever program he was involved with.


Bresler found some serious evidence. He spoke to the Honolulu police captain who investigated Chapman and found the ticket he purchased was from Honolulu to Chicago and return. You might say that Chapman wanted to conceal his intention so he only bought a ticket to Chicago and then bought another onward ticket to New York, however there's a few problems with that. His baggage claim ticket found amongst his belongings said Honolulu-Chicago-New York. You might say 'so what?', however if Chapman only bought a ticket to Chicago his baggage claim would have only said Honolulu-Chicago. There's no way they would print an onward destination on the claim ticket without the passenger having a flying ticket for that destination. So you might say Chapman bought the onward portion before getting on in Hawaii, however that can't be true because if Chapman had done that they would have re-issued a ticket with all those destinations listed on its face. The ticket they found in Chapman's New York hotel room was only for Honolulu to Chicago and return. There was no Chicago LaGuardia portion, nor any return ticket for that segment either. And they wouldn't have listed any Honolulu point of origin on any ticket Chapman bought in Chicago since it was a new and separate flight. The baggage claim ticket was issued in Hawaii. Bresler says this is evidence of CIA's manipulation of Chapman's ticket.

But that's not all. Bresler asked Honolulu's Captain Souza to confirm the departure date. Souza said his original investigation discovered Chapman departed from Hawaii on December 2nd. Souza had even gone to the United Airlines ticket counter and confirmed Chapman had traveled on the 2nd. Bresler contacted the New York detectives who investigated the case and found that the ticket they possessed indicated a December 5th departure - the same day Chapman arrived in New York. Bresler was stymied until he found a Honolulu Observer article from the 10th of December 1980 where Gloria Abe was quoted as saying Mark left 8-10 days ago. 8 days before the 10th was the 2nd. It doesn't seem likely Ms Abe would have mistaken the friday 5 days previous, as being 10 days previous. But, in any case, Souza already confirmed with United that Chapman had traveled on the 2nd. By the time Bresler discovered this United said it had routinely destroyed those records. Bresler was sure CIA forged the ticket in the possession of the New York police. The New York District Attorney had also compiled a transportation record in the case, however when Bresler asked for it to confirm the departure date they said it was missing.

There's much more, however there is enough here alone to show a familiar pattern those of us who have studied the JFK and RFK assassinations recognize. It is very likely Mark David Chapman was the perfect patsy because his background and personal inclinations were so in dovetail with CIA's purposes that it was impossible to distinguish between the two. Chapman's personal make-up and life direction was so perfectly coordinated with the forces that naturally stood in opposition to Lennon that it would have taken very little tweaking to manipulate him to kill Lennon. He's such a perfectly camouflaged patsy that it is really almost impossible to separate out any CIA hypnotic mind control from his influences and actions. His professed mental illness was so profoundly constructed that it would be very easy to hide any mind control within it.




Peter Lemkin Wrote:'They' are basically saying [in this example Dallas]: "Yes, we murdered the most popular President right in the middle of the street, in the middle of the day, in the middle of his security detail, in Middle American - and what are you going to do about it - what can you do about it - NOTHING! Spy


Agreed, and those are the people who would have no fear doing evil perfection of the process by developing the ability to control somebody's fantasy land externally in order to make them appear undeniably crazy. These people are so diabolical and so evil that they pursued the process by figuring out how to extend their influence all the way into the psychotic dimensions of the fantasy lands they created in their victims heads in order to choreograph all aspects of the set-up including those inside the hypnotically-created fantasy.



Peter Lemkin Wrote:If the current financial meltdown doesn't awaken the sleeping/programmed masses, you can kiss America's arss goodbye...and they won't even know what 'hit' them as they perish.... :alberteinstein: 'Tis the sad end of an even sadder Empire, and failed experiment IMHO. Better luck next time...if there is a next time.


That's the whole idea in the first place, to create a new world order that isn't necessarily controlled from America. The ultimate international corporate state owing to no one but themselves...
Reply
#24
Albert Doyle Wrote:You don't know how glad I am you wrote that because it is perfectly in line with what we know. My first thoughts were Bresler makes a strong case but it is still possible Chapman "programmed" himself in a way that was identically similar to covert mind control. It is possible Chapman had a borderline personality prone to schizophrenic tendencies and the extreme traumatic experience of boyhood drug use and LSD exacerbated this into a disturbed condition. Let's just say that such personalities are doing to themselves exactly what the MK-ULTRA controllers were doing to their subjects. You could make a very good argument that Mark Chapman created this huge psychological rift between high school drug use and born again christianity, which were at such opposite extremes that they created a mental schism that caused Chapman to become unstable. The reason the MK-ULTRA group used LSD was because it had such bizarre effects of the mind. A person who has his psyche influenced by this pseudo-schizophrenic aspect of LSD could enter a bizarre world where things take on the extreme illumination and magically-interpreted meanings of the schizophrenic state. In light of this it is very possible Chapman had managed to MK-ULTRA program himself and had tuned himself to irrational wavelengths of schizophrenic notions imparted to him by this LSD altered state where things take on magical or even divinely-inspired meaning.

Albert - I agree with you that LSD creates a mental state in which epiphanies are possible. Some of these epiphanies are inevitably faux, but do not appear false to the person who has experienced the "deep insight". So, yes, LSD can create a state of inspired, or religiously inspired, conviction in the rightness of one's course.

However, I'm not sure what you mean by a person "MK-ULTRA programming himself". Fundamentally, the mind control programmes such as MK-ULTRA are framed around a controller attempting to shape, frame and control the behaviour of his subject. It takes two...

I agree with you that Bresler's book, which I last read many years ago, has some interesting evidence. Chapman's presence in Hawaii is provocative. There's circumstantial evidence that there's an "MK-ULTRA" hospital wing in Hawaii, and that the Revd Jim Jones was sent there to have his programming renewed at the time his doppelganger was running round Cuba causing trouble.....
"It means this War was never political at all, the politics was all theatre, all just to keep the people distracted...."
"Proverbs for Paranoids 4: You hide, They seek."
"They are in Love. Fuck the War."

Gravity's Rainbow, Thomas Pynchon

"Ccollanan Pachacamac ricuy auccacunac yahuarniy hichascancuta."
The last words of the last Inka, Tupac Amaru, led to the gallows by men of god & dogs of war
Reply
#25
I have to agree with Jan here.....there was no real or pseudo self-programming. It was a program - done by evil people to create mind-controlled assassins. While the techniques seem to have changed a little over the years, the basics were the same [discussed elsewhere in this Forum...so for now not going to repeat in detail], which included hypnosis, drugs, regression and making the programmer[s] or some surrogate the new 'parental' figure, inundation of the sensorium to set up a new personality or multiple personalities, and some endlessly repeated story, poem, writing, repeated message, etc. that acts as the trigger to the killer mode or personality - and to act out a programmed script. [In these cases, assassinations]. These repetitious thoughts/sayings/writings/ideas are still there after the act [even if some programmed extinguishing-after-the-act script was applied], which may explain why MDC, for example, went on at his trial about the Catcher in the Rye....as in his messed-up mind the book [or part of the story in it] were connected to the subject matter of the trial.....so A could trigger B; and B-stimuli could also at times trigger A-mumblings/writings/etc.. I doubt if he had any more cognition/memory of the programming or his actions - and more importantly reason for his actions than did Sirhan Sirhan or any of the other mind-control assassins. Even if this was not the ideal outcome for the programmers, they had nothing to fear. If it was the exact outcome they wanted, they still had nothing to fear....either way they were home-free having committed another assassination and making it look like the act of a lone deranged/disturbed person - when it was REALLY an organized group of deranged/disturbed Deep Political fascist assassin-programming creeps!

They are still out there and still creating mind-control assassins and other mind-controlled operatives for various missions. How nice!

John Judge has done some good research on this phenomenon, generally, and on the Hawaii connection specifically. I believe he also found some within the 'humanitarian aid group' World Vision connected to many of the more famous mind-controlled assassins and their apparent programming. They certainly are not the only such group used as a 'cut-out' or cover for such.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
Reply
#26
Quote:Albert - I agree with you that LSD creates a mental state in which epiphanies are possible. Some of these epiphanies are inevitably faux, but do not appear false to the person who has experienced.

Yes,and this is why there are now (a few thousand people?),walking around thinking that they are really Jesus Christ. :rofl:
"You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.”
Buckminster Fuller
Reply
#27
Keith Millea Wrote:
Quote:Albert - I agree with you that LSD creates a mental state in which epiphanies are possible. Some of these epiphanies are inevitably faux, but do not appear false to the person who has experienced the "deep insight".

Yes,and this is why there are now (a few thousand people?),walking around thinking that they are really Jesus Christ. :rofl:

Keith - :dancingman:

LSD was a tool used by "MK-ULTRA" shrinks in their attempts to create Manchurian Candidates and other states of control over human subjects.

LSD was also released into the wider population in a completely uncontrolled fashion. As discussed elsewhere on DPF, eg in Walter Bowart's interview with Timothy Leary, this may been a deliberate play - perhaps to create Mass Khaos.

There are also important questions over whether "street acid" was always LSD. Eg what was the true nature of the sacramental "acid" Manson received from his connection and dispensed to his disciples?

So, with Chapman, the core question is whether he was a "recreational" LSD user who went a bit nuts - which is not too far from the official story - or whether he was programmed by controller(s)?

Sirhan Sirhan, who was almost certainly programmed - perhaps using a Rosicrucian group as cutout - appears to have numerous false memory screens and blocks implanted, and environmental triggers to repogramme himself routinely. Hence, cell visits from deep black shrink Jolly West.
"It means this War was never political at all, the politics was all theatre, all just to keep the people distracted...."
"Proverbs for Paranoids 4: You hide, They seek."
"They are in Love. Fuck the War."

Gravity's Rainbow, Thomas Pynchon

"Ccollanan Pachacamac ricuy auccacunac yahuarniy hichascancuta."
The last words of the last Inka, Tupac Amaru, led to the gallows by men of god & dogs of war
Reply
#28
Jan Klimkowski Wrote:However, I'm not sure what you mean by a person "MK-ULTRA programming himself".



Well the context is I'm trying to describe the only way Chapman's actions could be innocently explained outside of CIA mind control. I personally think there's enough evidence to show CIA involvement. We all know how they work with the RFK assassination being a good example. What the average American idiot doesn't understand is that once you determine Bobby Kennedy was killed this way the chances Lennon was also killed this way become almost certain.


However what I'm trying to say is, technically, Chapman could have achieved the same mind-cracking result through LSD on his own. Once his mind was broken by LSD he had the particular peculiarity of being surrounded by christian/CIA authorities that would have induced this external control on their own just by penetrating Chapman's vulnerable psyche at a time when his mind was undergoing LSD-induced dementia. Just when Chapman was entertaining this magical Catcher In The Rye world he coincidentally had these YMCA, church group, and CIA at Fort Chaffee influences pouring in.

When younger people take-up the 60's grass and LSD lifestyle induced by rock 'n roll culture they take it seriously like a religion or cultural movement. They are vulnerable because they are at their formative stages psychologically. The epiphanies caused by LSD in those rock 'n roll adults caused a very cathartic idealistic state in those people that got voiced through their music and politics. This idealism is something young minds instantly identified with against the fucked-up world they were being prepared to be passed down. So people like Chapman, once realizing they had been dumped by the drug culture into a sordid existence, reached out to another idealistic institution in the form of organized religion. However Chapman still carried the LSD virus inside him. So being privy to this magical world Chapman internalized this true seeker status still carrying it on and seeing himself as a keeper of the faith. He would be able to see himself as practicing a purer form by cleansing it in christian religion while still holding that Catcher world inside. It's very complex but Chapman kept the inner 'Catcher' world sacred as what he knew as a child and trusted. This is where the "command hallucination" cited by psychiatrist Dorothy Lewis occurred. This inner world was surrounded by a normal christian institution shell that focused everything in towards this inner nuclear core and put the pressure on what maintained the illusion. Chapman was influenced by YMCA, church, police authorities, and christian politics, but when they were focused on this LSD-demented inner core they became an ever increasing psychotic monster growing inside Chapman. Chapman was a true servant of the original rock 'n roll faith but guiding it purely with unquestionable christian religion. Trusting the inner most faith inside him he saw this magic he was able to interpret as being a genuine form that others like Lennon had failed. This was, of course, magically illuminated to him by a special understanding of the real meaning of the words in 'Catcher In The Rye'. God had shown himself to him in the form of a special understanding of Catcher. Something known in the sober and sane world of psychiatry as a "command hallucination".

So the only way Chapman could have done this on his own would be if he possessed a particular borderline personality personal make-up where he was seriously mentally injured early-on with his high school drug use and then perpetuated that inside as he pressure cooked it with christian and personal development stress. His Catcher In The Rye inner world was a valuable life-long personal investment and commitment and embodiment of what was most valuable to him from his youth. It was sacred to him personally and magically validated by God-given personal miraculous understanding of divine messages sent to him in Catcher In The Rye. He had to serve it and act upon it because it was God. John Lennon failed it but Mark Chapman hadn't and Lennon therefore had to suffer biblical consequences for his failure. Chapman now embodied everything he imagined Lennon had stood for and by killing him would now take-over the cause.

This would be the only way that Mark Chapman could have MK-ULTRA programmed himself. His LSD-heightened sensibility would have made him more vulnerable to his surroundings and those surroundings just so happened to be southern christian, CIA, YMCA, police politics. So, in other words, in his psychologically-compromised condition, his surroundings would have taken the place of the CIA mind controllers in influencing his mind. This LSD-induced almost consciously hypnotic state would have been abnormally receptive to those external influences and fed them in to the inner core in a way that is normally prevented by psychological shields. This state is no different than temporary schizophrenia however it is much more dangerous because it is guided by valid real world motivations that would guide schizophrenic notions into real actions. The cultural/religious guiding tracks were all there in place and able to justify Chapman acting-out these insane fantasies.


Now that this is gotten over with, I'd like to say that Fenton Bresler showed serious evidence that this psychological phenomenon was manipulated by some very evil people. What I'd like to say is CIA is not staffed with idiots and if I can figure out this stuff so can they and they'd be the first people to manipulate it. As a matter of fact I'm almost 100% sure they did in the case of Mark David Chapman.
Reply
#29
Albert - the terminology matters.

With respect, in my judgement the phrase "MK-ULTRA programmed himself" mixes oranges and apples in a deeply unhelpful way.

If your argument is that a young person with a pre-existing borderline psychiatric condition could develop a full blown psychosis through exposure to LSD whilst surrounded by extreme religious types who considered rock and roll stars such as John Lennon more Antichrist than Guru, then I'm part of the way with you.

However, describing this as "MK-ULTRA self programming" does not aid our understanding of this process. The common cultural phrase for such a person is Acid Casualty.

With hallucinogens, set and setting is fundamentally important.

A Siberian adolescent entering the spirit world with a knowedgeable shaman from their own tribe, and a cauldron bubbling with Siberia's native hallucinogens, undertakes their journey in a constructive set and setting.

A fragile American teenager bussed to a military laboratory to be prodded by a spooky shrink who has no intuitive understanding of Acidland, but is trained to use electrodes and demand a response to Pain Trauma Death movies whilst the subject is trapped in a box, undertakes a journey in a destructive set and setting.

Most scientific discoveries can be used for Good or Evil.

The Good Rocket to travel to the Stars, the Bad Rocket for the World's Destruction.

Tragically, very early on, hallucinogens were co-opted and manufactured by the Man whose intention - not always successful - was to exploit their Evil potential.

LSD may have been one of the tools used to open up and programme Mark David Chapman.
"It means this War was never political at all, the politics was all theatre, all just to keep the people distracted...."
"Proverbs for Paranoids 4: You hide, They seek."
"They are in Love. Fuck the War."

Gravity's Rainbow, Thomas Pynchon

"Ccollanan Pachacamac ricuy auccacunac yahuarniy hichascancuta."
The last words of the last Inka, Tupac Amaru, led to the gallows by men of god & dogs of war
Reply
#30
Jan Klimkowski Wrote:Albert - the terminology matters.

With respect, in my judgement the phrase "MK-ULTRA programmed himself" mixes oranges and apples in a deeply unhelpful way.


I don't see what the big deal is. The example was obviously figurative. Besides, in the MK-ULTRA LSD world apples can very easily morph into oranges. It's a very indeterminate place.


Jan Klimkowski Wrote:If your argument is that a young person with a pre-existing borderline psychiatric condition could develop a full blown psychosis through exposure to LSD whilst surrounded by extreme religious types who considered rock and roll stars such as John Lennon more Antichrist than Guru, then I'm part of the way with you.



The main point being the point Chapman's mind had reached was similar to that induced by the MK Mengele's.


Jan Klimkowski Wrote:However, describing this as "MK-ULTRA self programming" does not aid our understanding of this process. The common cultural phrase for such a person is Acid Casualty.


Would not an MK-ULTRA victim also be an "acid casualty" of sorts?


This is splitting hairs. The real business here is evidence Bresler found of typical CIA involvement in Chapman's being set-up as a Sirhan-like lunatic. What I find most telling about it is no one ever challenged Bresler's evidence.
Reply


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  From JFK to MLK to RFK to 911 to today....a continuum. Peter Lemkin 2 2,407 02-09-2021, 07:49 AM
Last Post: Peter Lemkin
  Would-be Reagan assassin John Hinckley Jr. to be freed after 35 years Drew Phipps 6 10,264 31-07-2016, 09:26 AM
Last Post: Joseph McBride
  Bartender who served Speaker John Boehner threatened to poison him (and shoot him) Drew Phipps 1 4,180 14-01-2015, 04:53 PM
Last Post: Albert Doyle
  More Freedom For John Hinckley to be debated........... Bernice Moore 2 3,535 02-12-2011, 01:12 PM
Last Post: Bernice Moore
  the Secret Keeper Bunny Mellon and John Edwards, Jackie, etc Bernice Moore 0 3,387 26-07-2011, 12:55 AM
Last Post: Bernice Moore
  Today rfk in history assassinated los angeles...... Bernice Moore 0 2,682 05-06-2011, 08:08 PM
Last Post: Bernice Moore
  Anniversary of CIA assassination of Lumumba....50 years ago today Ed Jewett 2 226,743 21-01-2011, 02:53 PM
Last Post: Peter Lemkin
  U.S Military assassination teams of today Tosh Plumlee 10 11,740 31-03-2009, 08:55 PM
Last Post: Jan Klimkowski

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)