True sponsors:Texan extremists & Military Industrial compex vs eastern establishment

[Seamus Coogan]

Hey its all good to have a back and forth Jan. I disagree in many ways but I came across as needlessly heavy handed. Crisman, yes he's an interesting character and I agree theres more to him than meets the eye. The Torbitt document stuff about him is of course dubious. But yeah he is definitely hooked up in disinfo. But theres also a ton of disinfo about Crisman. Hence I tread the path very warily.

Seamus - Pax!

I'm a fan of robust exchanges too. In fact, they are part of the core rationale for DPF.

No one researcher knows everything, and philosophically I believe that working hypotheses benefit from being exposed to new evidence and new interpretations of (existing and new) evidence.

I understand your concerns about Crisman - the man, the legend, the disinformation and the lies. I appreciate your articulation of those concerns. They add to our understanding.

However, fundamentally, we all have the right to choose where to expend our precious research time. Some of our decisions will inevitably prove less than fertile.

Rightly or wrongly, I believe that an examination of an established psyop (or disinformation operaton) can itself help to peel back another layer of the onion skin.

Unfortunately for our continued good relations I levelled my sights at Levenda in my new Farrell piece. Farrell quoted him. You'll see it when it comes out. But its a shame Levenda-whom I incidentally took an interest in after seeing a thread with you and Magda discussing him a while back does have some interesting stuff. But the Shaw stuff is really wack and he really let's himself down. Guy Banister the originator of the X-Files? Ummmmm right moving along!!!!!! I emailed Levenda asking for the documentation to all of this (and yes I asked politely and I didn't get a reply) am still waiting!!

I look forward to reading, and perhaps engaging with, your piece on Farrell and Levenda.

In my hardback copy of Sinister Forces, Vol One, p212, footnote 4, Peter Levenda notes several FBI files in his possession consisting (essentially) of official reports by the FBI's WG Banister about - loosely - "flying saucers". I have not seen those documents. I would very much like to see them. My instinct is to trust the author until it is proven that those documents either do not exist or do not provide the corroboration claimed for them.

In saying that though like I say, I respect your points of views on a lot of things here and no matter when we differ its still the same. Like I said my apologies if the last few posts were a tad antagonistic. Dare I say let battle commence my good fellow!

Seamus - once again, Pax!

We may joust again over your Farrell/Levenda article. I hope our jousting will, once again, be undertaken in a spirit of respect and with the aim of advancing research still further.

I have attached a poor quality scan of a 1947 news article mentioning FBI Special Agent WG Banister investigating what turned out to be a phony "flying disk/saucer" (cymbal) incident.

The text in the scan is hard to read, so here is a transcription:

FBI Drums Up Cymbals-Like 'Disk' in Idaho

BUTTE, Mont, July 11 - AP - FBI Agent W. G. Banister said an object which appeared to be a "flying disk" was found early today at Twin Falls, Ida. , and turned over to federal authorities there.

Banister, special agent in charge of the FBI in Montana and Idaho, said the bureau had reported the discovery to the army at Fort Douglas, Utah.

An FBI agent in Twin Falls inspected the "saucer" and described it as similar to the "cymbals used by a drummer in a band, placed face to face. "

The object measured 30 1/2 inches in diameter, with a metal dome on one side and a plastic dome about 14 inches high on the opposite side...

I accept that this does not prove that Banister was in charge of some real life "X-Files", although sight of the rest of the memos cited by Levenda may make the case stronger.

Regardless of the veracity of that specific "real X-Files" claim, it does seem that both Crisman and Banister were involved in the "investigation" of "flying saucer" sightings in the immediate post-WW2 period.

David Guyatt and I (and I believe Peter Lemkin) are of the view that these "flying saucer" sightings represent something real and something archetypal. Elements of that working hypothesis can be found here.

Hey thanks for all the feedback Jan. I appreiciate it. Jan wasn't there also a picture of Banister floating around with a weather balloon? Cheers for this article by the way.

[Jan Klimkowski]

I've started a dedicated Guy Banister thread here.

[Vasilios Vazakas]

with all due respect, you are discussing everything in this thread, but the topic in question. i think this threat has lost its meaning and purpose.

[Jan Klimkowski]

with all due respect, you are discussing everything in this thread, but the topic in question. i think this threat has lost its meaning and purpose.

Vasilios - apologies. Please steer this thread back to your subject matter with a fresh post.

PS the discussion was not entirely irrelevant. If Permindex was a Facilitator of the assassination of JFK, then it was - arguably - a Gladio operation. And that would take us closer to understanding the identity of the Sponsors.

NB I do not expect that paragraph to be well received.....

[Vasilios Vazakas]

THANK YOU FOR THE REPLY. I don't really have to add anything new to this, just to repeat my view that the military industrial complex vs eastern establishment is a pseudo-dilemma. Regarding Pemindex it is a very interesting but a confusing matter.
We have to thank the Torbitt document and Michael Piper Collins' Final Judgement for neutralizing permindex for good, since it was ridiculed by association with them. But as Charles Drago has said in the past, disinformation mixes facts with fiction. I know there is a Canadian Maurice Phillips, who has revealed new information regarding the Bloomfield files and Permindex. His blog is somesecretsforyou.blogspot.com/
I personally cannot say if Permindex was involved in the assasination , i just don't know.

[Seamus Coogan]

with all due respect, you are discussing everything in this thread, but the topic in question. i think this threat has lost its meaning and purpose.

Vasilios - apologies. Please steer this thread back to your subject matter with a fresh post.

PS the discussion was not entirely irrelevant. If Permindex was a Facilitator of the assassination of JFK, then it was - arguably - a Gladio operation. And that would take us closer to understanding the identity of the Sponsors.

NB I do not expect that paragraph to be well received.....

ROFLMAO:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Jan Klimkowski]

Regarding Pemindex it is a very interesting but a confusing matter.
We have to thank the Torbitt document and Michael Piper Collins' Final Judgement for neutralizing permindex for good, since it was ridiculed by association with them. But as Charles Drago has said in the past, disinformation mixes facts with fiction. I know there is a Canadian Maurice Phillips, who has revealed new information regarding the Bloomfield files and Permindex. His blog is somesecretsforyou.blogspot.com/
I personally cannot say if Permindex was involved in the assasination , i just don't know.

Vasilios - thank you for that link to Maurice Phillips' research on Permindex, which is based in part on:

the Louis Mortimer Bloomfield Archives kept at Library and Archives Canada (LAC) is a unique and rich collection of documents offering a unique perspective on many historical events of the twentieth century.

One of the most original aspects of the Bloomfield Archives is that they contain numerous exclusive documents about two Italian sisters corporations named Permindex and Centro Mondiale Commerciale (CMC) that were suspected to be used as front by intelligence agencies. Since one of CMC's directors was Clay Shaw, the New Orleans businessman accused of conspiracy against President John F. Kennedy, rumours about the possible implication of Permindex in the JFK assassination have multiplied in newspapers, books and, now, on the internet.

Louis Mortimer Bloomfield, who donated its papers in 1978 to the Canadian Public Archives, under the condition that they were to be released 20 years after his death (i.e.: in 2004, since he died in 1984), was a Montreal lawyer involved in Permindex's finance and development. By consequence, his archives contain hundreds of pieces such as cables and letters documenting the activities of this organization.

I've started a dedicated thread on Permindex here.

Because Permindex deserves it...

[Seamus Coogan]

THANK YOU FOR THE REPLY. I don't really have to add anything new to this, just to repeat my view that the military industrial complex vs eastern establishment is a pseudo-dilemma. Regarding Pemindex it is a very interesting but a confusing matter.
We have to thank the Torbitt document and Michael Piper Collins' Final Judgement for neutralizing permindex for good, since it was ridiculed by association with them. But as Charles Drago has said in the past, disinformation mixes facts with fiction. I know there is a Canadian Maurice Phillips, who has revealed new information regarding the Bloomfield files and Permindex. His blog is somesecretsforyou.blogspot.com/
I personally cannot say if Permindex was involved in the assasination , i just don't know.

The Torbitt document is a scam that entwined itself around the Garrison investigation and Paris Flammondes early work (which was a little more 'earthy' shall I say than his later stuff). I discuss this in my next CTKA piece. Jim will put up a link here when it's out and we'll go from here.

But as for original idea of the thread I forgot too say that I'm sure we all agree that Luce was up to his neck in the assassination. At the very least the aftermath. Whats of interest is how the agency would eventually take out Howard Hughes later on.

That's fascinating stuff man. And it goes to show that no matter how powerful you think you are if you don't serve the interests of the agency or have become a liability well diddums. They say there's 'There's no business like show business' and while I think its pretty subtle how they bring business people into line (if they need to-generally most suits have the some type of ideological foibles or are agency themselves anyways) but Im sure if you were a bit more 'stand offish' they'd 'show' you they mean 'business' by taking over your 'business'.

[Vasilios Vazakas]

I agree that Luce and C.D. Jackson were at the very least involved in Cuban operations against Castro, certainly in the cover up, and i would bet that they were also involved in the assassination. Please give my regards to Jim DiEugenio.

[Seamus Coogan]

I agree that Luce and C.D. Jackson were at the very least involved in Cuban operations against Castro, certainly in the cover up, and i would bet that they were also involved in the assassination. Please give my regards to Jim DiEugenio.

Jim is online here I'm sure he'd dig a hello. He's a big fan of Battling Wall Street in many ways. As for CD Jackson yes how did I forget him. I'll hold back on their being directly involved in the assassination as such but I'm with yah 100 percent on the rest Vasilios mate!