JFK: What we know now that we didn't know then

[Albert Doyle]

It's possible some kind of meeting happened at Murchison's but being a weak source Madeleine Brown got some of the details wrong.

I doubt very much anything happened at the Murchisons buddy. Full stop.

Well, a good detective would reason Johnson was there and came back to the room with some kind of story and build backwards from there.

[Seamus Coogan]

It's possible some kind of meeting happened at Murchison's but being a weak source Madeleine Brown got some of the details wrong.

I doubt very much anything happened at the Murchisons buddy. Full stop.

Well, a good detective would reason Johnson was there and came back to the room with some kind of story and build backwards from there.

No well research Jim I and others on numerous CTKA articles says othr wise champ.

[Albert Doyle]

No well research Jim I and others on numerous CTKA articles says othr wise champ.

I'm sure. I'm just saying this thrust of research may be stopping short of finding-out what did happen that night at the hotel. If it was a total fabrication it could have been used to cover the real meeting that happened that night in Dallas at the motel with Ruby and the other mobsters. All I'm trying to say is the Johnson quote could be real. If so, then it should be traced for its origins.

[Adele Edisen]

To All,

From my reading of two books, and from a posting I believe I made on this forum, if not on another forum some years ago, Lyndon Johnson and his staff tried to keep Kennedy from visiting Dallas during this swing through Texas. I recommend these readings, if you have not already done so.

THE 31st OF MARCH by Horace Busby, speechwriter and confidant of LBJ's. The title refers to the date, March 31, 1968, when Lyndon Johnson announced that he would not be seeking the presidency in November, 1968. Perhaps even more significant is Busby's description of a speech he wrote for LBJ in 1967 that was to be delivered at the end of Johnson's 1967 State of the Union speech to make the same declaration, but which he did not deliver even though it was in his pocket when he spoke.

JOHNNY, WE HARDLY KNEW YE by Kenneth O'Donnell and David Powers. Both authors were very close to John Kennedy.

Both books cite Lyndon Johnson urging Kennedy and his staff and planners to skip the Dallas visit, because the city did not carry the Kennedy-Johnson ticket in the 1960 election, and because Lyndon and Ladybird Johnson were ill-treated when campaigning in Dallas in 1960. They were hit by agitators' signs and spit upon in the lobby of the Adolphus Hotel as they walked through it.

Adele Edisen

[Adele Edisen]

Phil Dragoo said:

The most important part of the coverup is decided by others, and Johnson's role is to follow the program.

Kennedy's NSAM 263 was clear: withdrawal begins now, out by end of 65.

Johnson's NSAM 273 the day after the riderless horse was put away was authored by someone, just not Kennedy. McGeorge Bundy is the presumptive choice of Greg Burnham.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The draft of the National Security Action Memorandum 273, dated November 21, 1963, Thursday, the day before the assassination, was written by McGeorge Bundy, according to Fletcher Prouty (THE CIA, VIETNAM, AND THE PLOT TO ASSASSINATE JOHN F. KENNEDY by L. Fletcher Prouty).

Lyndon Johnson had left for his ranch near San Antonio, Texas, on November 12, 1963 (see THE 31st OF MARCH by Horace Busby). John Kennedy was on Air Force I heading for San Antonio and the beginning of his Texas trip. So Kennedy and his Vice-President, who had to sign it as President, had not written it. And.......therefore........??

Adele Edisen

[Seamus Coogan]

No well research Jim I and others on numerous CTKA articles says othr wise champ.

I'm sure. I'm just saying this thrust of research may be stopping short of finding-out what did happen that night at the hotel. If it was a total fabrication it could have been used to cover the real meeting that happened that night in Dallas at the motel with Ruby and the other mobsters. All I'm trying to say is the Johnson quote could be real. If so, then it should be traced for its origins.

Maybe Al maybe. Sounds interesting. I think the meeting with the ATF and FBI guys on the morning was pretty interesting lol.

[Seamus Coogan]

To All,

From my reading of two books, and from a posting I believe I made on this forum, if not on another forum some years ago, Lyndon Johnson and his staff tried to keep Kennedy from visiting Dallas during this swing through Texas. I recommend these readings, if you have not already done so.

THE 31st OF MARCH by Horace Busby, speechwriter and confidant of LBJ's. The title refers to the date, March 31, 1968, when Lyndon Johnson announced that he would not be seeking the presidency in November, 1968. Perhaps even more significant is Busby's description of a speech he wrote for LBJ in 1967 that was to be delivered at the end of Johnson's 1967 State of the Union speech to make the same declaration, but which he did not deliver even though it was in his pocket when he spoke.

JOHNNY, WE HARDLY KNEW YE by Kenneth O'Donnell and David Powers. Both authors were very close to John Kennedy.

Both books cite Lyndon Johnson urging Kennedy and his staff and planners to skip the Dallas visit, because the city did not carry the Kennedy-Johnson ticket in the 1960 election, and because Lyndon and Ladybird Johnson were ill-treated when campaigning in Dallas in 1960. They were hit by agitators' signs and spit upon in the lobby of the Adolphus Hotel as they walked through it.

Adele Edisen

There are other sources as well such as Vince Palamara and William Manchester. John Connally was also deeply opposed and funnily enough worried about the security of the Trademart.

[Adele Edisen]

To All,

From my reading of two books, and from a posting I believe I made on this forum, if not on another forum some years ago, Lyndon Johnson and his staff tried to keep Kennedy from visiting Dallas during this swing through Texas. I recommend these readings, if you have not already done so.

THE 31st OF MARCH by Horace Busby, speechwriter and confidant of LBJ's. The title refers to the date, March 31, 1968, when Lyndon Johnson announced that he would not be seeking the presidency in November, 1968. Perhaps even more significant is Busby's description of a speech he wrote for LBJ in 1967 that was to be delivered at the end of Johnson's 1967 State of the Union speech to make the same declaration, but which he did not deliver even though it was in his pocket when he spoke.

JOHNNY, WE HARDLY KNEW YE by Kenneth O'Donnell and David Powers. Both authors were very close to John Kennedy.

Both books cite Lyndon Johnson urging Kennedy and his staff and planners to skip the Dallas visit, because the city did not carry the Kennedy-Johnson ticket in the 1960 election, and because Lyndon and Ladybird Johnson were ill-treated when campaigning in Dallas in 1960. They were hit by agitators' signs and spit upon in the lobby of the Adolphus Hotel as they walked through it.

Adele Edisen

There are other sources as well such as Vince Palamara and William Manchester. John Connally was also deeply opposed and funnily enough worried about the security of the Trademart.

Seamus,

Thanks. Could you provide me with the specific citations to, or quotations from, their works? I would really appreciate it.

Adele Edisen

[Phil Dragoo]

Bundy icy in this memoir.

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/featu...ers-201011

"IT'S OVER"
November 22, 1963

A memorandum dictated by Moynihan to himself, describing his chaotic, terrible day after news of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy reached Washington. William Walton was an artist and Kennedy-family friend. Charles Horsky was a prominent lawyer and White House adviser on national capital affairs. Moynihan at the time was an assistant secretary of labor in the Kennedy administration.

Bill Walton, Charlie Horsky and I were just finishing lunch at Walton's housein the grandest good mood with Walton leaving for the Russian tour that afternoonI was talking about Brasilia and the phone rang. Oh no! Killed! No! Horsky's office had phoned for him to return. We rushed upstairs. Television had some of it but the commercials continued. Bill began sobbing. Out of control. Horsky in a rage. Clint (?)Jackie's agent had said the President is dead. Walton knew this meant it was so. He dressed more or less and we went directly to the White House from Georgetown. On the way the radio reported that Albert Thomas had said he might be living.
We went directly to the President's office which was torn apart with new carpets being put down in his office and the cabinet room. As if a new President were to take office. No one about save Chuck Daly. McGeorge Bundy appeared. Icy. Ralph Dungan came in smoking a pipe, quizzical, as if unconcerned. Then Sorensen. The three together in the door of the hallway that leads to the Cabinet room area. Dead silent. Someone said "It's over."

Bundy was said to have been the hold on the final air raid by the CIA B-26's retrofitted with .50 cal. guns in their noses to take out Castro's three T-33 jet trainers armed likewise with .50 cal. guns. The upshot was the invasion was chopped up and "traitor" was the least offensive epithet on many mouths regarding 35.

An abundance of Bundy. William Bundy cited in Donald Gibson Origins of the Warren Commission.

Greg Burnham has presented a fascinating talk on NSAM 273 draft version. http://www.jfklancer.com/NSAM273.html

[Adele Edisen]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

McGeorge Bundy


6th United States National Security Advisor

In office 19611966

Presidents

John F. Kennedy
Lyndon B. Johnson


Preceded by Gordon Gray

Succeeded by Walt Rostow


Personal details

Born

March 30, 1919
Boston, Massachusetts

Died

September 16, 1996 (aged 77 of massive heart attack)
Boston, Massachusetts


Resting place

Mount Auburn Cemetery
Cambridge, Massachusetts


Alma mater

Yale University (Bachelor's Degree)


Profession

Foreign and defense policy advisor


McGeorge "Mac" Bundy (March 30, 1919 September 16, 1996) was United States National Security Advisor to Presidents John F. Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson from 1961 through 1966, and president of the Ford Foundation from 1966 through 1979. He is known primarily for his role in escalating the involvement of the United States in Vietnam during the Kennedy and Johnson administrations.

Early life

Raised in Boston, Massachusetts, Bundy came from a wealthy family long involved in Republican politics. His mother, Katherine Lawrence Putnam, was the daughter of two Boston Brahmin families listed in the Social Register. His father, Harvey Hollister Bundy, was from Grand Rapids, Michigan and was a diplomat who helped implement the Marshall Plan.

Bundy attended the elite Dexter School in Brookline, Massachusetts and then the Groton School, where he placed first in his class and ran the student newspaper and debating society. He was then admitted to Yale University, one year behind his brother William. At Yale, where he majored in mathematics, he served as secretary of the Yale Political Union and then chairman of its Liberal Party. He also wrote a column for the Yale Daily News. Like his father, he was inducted into the Skull and Bones secret society, where he was nicknamed "Odin". He remained in contact with his fellow Bonesmen for decades afterward.

Career

For a year and a half 1945-47, Bundy co-wrote Henry L. Stimson's third-person autobiography with the just-retired United States Secretary of War.

In 1949, Bundy took a position at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York to study Marshall Plan aid to Europe. The study group included such luminaries as Dwight Eisenhower, Allen Dulles, Richard M. Bissell, Jr. and George Kennan. The group's deliberations were sensitive and highly secret, dealing as they did with the highly classified fact that there was a covert side to the Marshall Plan, where the CIA used certain funds to aid anti-communist groups in France and Italy.

Bundy was one of Kennedy's "wise men," and noted professor of government at Harvard University, despite having only a bachelor's degree. In 1953, Bundy was appointed Dean of the Faculty at Harvard at the age of thirty-four, the youngest in the school's history. He was elected a Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences in 1954. He moved into public life in 1961, becoming national security adviser in the Kennedy administration. He played a crucial role in all of the major foreign policy and defense decisions of the Kennedy and part of the Johnson administration. These included the Bay of Pigs Invasion, the Cuban Missile Crisis, and, most controversially, the Vietnam War. From 1964 he was Chairman of the 303 Committee, responsible for coordinating government covert operations.

Bundy was a strong proponent of the Vietnam War during his tenure. He supported escalating the American involvement and the bombing of North Vietnam.

He left government in 1966 to take over as president of the Ford Foundation, a position he held until 1979. He was named to the "master list" of President Richard Nixon's infamous "Enemies List."

In January 1969, he was presented with the Presidential Medal of Freedom by President Lyndon Johnson.

From 1979 to 1989, he was Professor of History at New York University. He was scholar-in-residence at the Carnegie Corporation from 19901996



Adele Edisen