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Venezuelan Government Releases “Evidence” that Opposition is Planning to not Recognise Election Resu
#1
Venezuela goes to the polls tomorrow....

Venezuelan Government Releases "Evidence" that Opposition is Planning to not Recognise Election Results

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By Tamara Pearson

Merida, April 10[SUP]th[/SUP] 2013 (Venezuelanalysis.com) This morning United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV) leader Diosdado Cabello presented evidence, including phone recordings, documents, and emails, allegedly proving that the opposition has plans to not recognise the 14 April presidential election results.


Cabello played an audio recording of a phone conversation to the public in which Joao Nunes, Capriles' bodyguard and driver, said that Capriles won't recognise Sunday's results if he loses.


In the recorded conversation, which lasts just over a minute, Nunes talks with another person, "Michell", who says "It's looking to be full on, man". Nunes responds, "Man, they're going to rob it from them in the streets...". Michell then says, "Looking at it from here, here what they are saying is that he's not going to recognise [the elections] if he loses... there's going to be problems, full on problems".


Cabello also showed an email allegedly sent from Amando Briquet, of Capriles' campaign team, to Guillermo Salas, member of the organisation Esdata. Esdata has reported on Venezuela's electoral process since Chavez was elected in 1998, and claims there are "statistical irregularities" by the National Electoral Council (CNE) which "violate the right to elect".


In the alleged email, dated 6 April this year, Briquet wrote, "...we need everything set out in Washington for checking over by the [Capriles campaign]. It's necessary that all documentation is presented internationally if we decide to take the road of not recognizing the results."


Cabello said opposition umbrella group MUD's secretary, Ramon Aveledo, was involved and that he had requested documentation from Salas "in order to be able to support their decision not to recognise the results".


Further, Cabello denounced an alleged meeting between the head of private, opposition supporting newspaper, El Nacional, Miguel Otero, with Capriles and Briquet. Cabello accused the three men of meeting in order to "discuss not recognising the elections".


Finally, Cabello said an organisation called Patriotic Board (Junta Patrotica), which includes Guillermo Salas, signed a document which they sent on 7 April to Vicente Diaz. Diaz is a CNE director known to side more with the opposition. In the document the Patriotic Board allegedly expressed its decision to not recognise the CNE's reports.


Cabello told press he'd made the information public in "order to guarantee peace; this is a ...warning so that they know we know what they are planning to do".


Public prosecutor Luisa Ortega also verified that seventeen people have been detained in Sucre, Monagas, and Aragua states for sabotaging the electrical system. Blackouts have been more common over the last two weeks across Venezuela.


"A small group has been sabotaging the electricity system, and that's why there have been some power outs, but they aren't the part of the majority of the people, because the people don't want destabilisation, they want peace," Ortega said. She informed that the crime of sabotaging the electricity grid is punishable by up to 30 years prison.


According to Wilmer Barrientos, head of strategic command of the National Bolivarian Armed Forces, the seventeen people detained were "caught red-handed" damaging electricity facilities.


In Merida this afternoon, opposition supporters, after a large rally where Capriles spoke, committed various acts of violence in the city. Some of the perpetrators were drunk, and some wore balaclavas, making it likely they were part of the violent Movement 13 group based on Merida's University of Los Andes. They attacked the offices of the goverment youth, INJUVEM, of public radio YVKE Mundial, the state government building and its workers, and various privately owned shops in the centre of the city. The number of injuries is as yet unknown, and the national guard have calmed the situation.


Other events over the last few days have also pointed towards an opposition strategy of destabilisation and not recognising Venezuela's electoral power.


Yesterday Capriles refused to sign a CNE document of commitment to recognise the election results, instead signing his own document. There he committed to "respect the will of the people" but attacked the CNE for supposedly being "negligent" and "biased" towards the government, and Maduro's campaign for supposedly "taking advantage of the poor" and using public media.


On Monday, there was some violence and some people were injured, in an upper class suburb of Caracas. According to reports by residents of the area, it now appears that Maduro supporters were attacked by the opposition group JAVU, which then went to the press and blamed "Castro-communists" for the violence.


On Saturday government officials also released a recorded conversation that allegedly reveals the use of "mercenaries" by the Venezuelan opposition to create chaos in the lead up to the elections.

Maduro alleged that the "mercenaries" were already in Venezuela and had three objectives: to sabotage the electrical grid, increase the number of murders, and assassinate Maduro. He alleged that they were coordinated by the Central American right wing, with some sectors of the opposition. He said his information was based on conversations recorded by Venezuela's intelligence organisations.

Foreign minister Elias Jaua claimed the "mercenaries" are led by a retired colonel of the Salvadoran armed forces, David Koch, and coordinated by Salvadoran right-wing politician Roberto d Áubuisson.


Yesterday Maduro released a photo of one of the supposed mercenaries, Julio Cornejo, and asked the Venezuelan public to inform authorities if they see him.


Published on Apr 10th 2013 at 6.40pm
"You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.”
Buckminster Fuller
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#2
Maduro, Chavez's favorite, has won the election.

[URL="http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-15/venezuela-president-election/4629780"]http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-15/venezuela-president-election/4629780

Quote:[URL="http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-15/venezuela-president-election/4629780"]The National Electoral Council said Mr Maduro won 50.7 per cent of the votes compared to 49.1 per cent for his young rival, Miranda state governor Henrique Capriles.

[/URL][URL="http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-15/venezuela-president-election/4629780"]The council said more than 99 per cent of the votes had been counted and that the result was "irreversible".
[/URL]
[/URL]
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
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#3
While I'm sure some Venezuelans never liked Chavez, they were never the majority. Their leaders participated in an unsuccessful coup d'etat with help from their American 'friends'. I'm almost sure the USA has something cooked up now to amplify the call of the election results being illegitimate. When will the USA stop meddling in Central and South American - [and the World]?! Our leaders [visible and hidden] never seem to learn - but sociopaths never do.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
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#4
Following the script perfectly.

Quote:Nicolas Maduro has narrowly won the Venezuelan presidency, but opposition leader Henrique Capriles has refused to recognise the results.



Venezuelan opposition leader Henrique Capriles has refused to recognise the election victory of acting President Nicolas Maduro in the race to succeed late leader Hugo Chavez.
"Today's loser is you," he told a news conference early on Monday, referring to Maduro, adding: "We won't recognise a result until every vote has been counted."
Chavez's hand-picked successor, Nicolas Maduro, won by a razor-thin margin in the special presidential election, edging Capriles by only about 300,000 votes, electoral officials announced.
Maduro, acting-president since Chavez's death, held a double-digit advantage just two weeks ago, but electoral officials said he got just 50.7 per cent of the votes to 49.1 per cent for Capriles.
Chavistas set off fireworks and blasted car horns as they cruised downtown Caracas in jubilation.
Maduro addressed a crowd from the presidential palace. He called his victory further proof that Chavez "continues to be invincible, that he continues to win battles".
He said Capriles had called him before the results were announced to suggest a "pact" and that Maduro refused.
Maduro, a longtime foreign minister to Chavez, rode a wave of sympathy for the charismatic leader to victory, pinning his hopes on the immense loyalty for his boss among millions of poor beneficiaries of government largesse and the powerful state apparatus that Chavez skillfully consolidated.
Capriles' main campaign weapon was to simply emphasise "the incompetence of the state" in handling the world's largest oil reserves.
Millions of Venezuelans were lifted out of poverty under Chavez, but many also believe his government not only squandered, but plundered, much of the $US1 trillion ($A956.62 billion) in oil revenues during his tenure.

Venezuelans are afflicted by chronic power outages, crumbling infrastructure, unfinished public works projects, double-digit inflation, food and medicine shortages, and rampant crime - one of the world's highest homicide and kidnapping rates - that the opposition said worsened after Chavez succumbed March 5 to cancer.
Quote:Nicolas Maduro, Venezuela's acting president says he has evidence that the US tried to destabilise the OPEC member nation. Venezuela's acting President Nicolas Maduro has said his government would provide "new direct evidence" of US interventionism in his country after he cast a vote in his bid to succeed Hugo Chavez.
Maduro, who was handpicked by Chavez to lead his nation, expelled two US military attaches the day the leftist leader died last month, and he accused former US officials of hatching a plot to kill him during the campaign.
"There are always difficulties with the United States because they are always plotting," he charged after voting in the presidential election pitting him against opposition leader Henrique Capriles.
"Tomorrow (Monday) we will present new direct evidence of interventionism in the domestic situation of Venezuela by US embassy officials," the former foreign minister and vice president said.
Shortly before he announced Chavez's death on March 5, Maduro had accused the two US military attaches of trying to recruit Venezuelan military officers to destabilise the OPEC member nation.
"What would happen if ... a Venezuelan military attache at the embassy in Washington started looking for soldiers in the Pentagon to reject (President Barack) Obama's authority or raise arms against Obama?" he said.
The two nations have not had ambassadors posted in each other's capitals since 2010.
Maduro said Venezuela was "always willing" to have better relations but that it would depend "on them respecting our country."
The United States expelled two Venezuelan diplomats in a tit-for-tat move last month. Nine days later, Caracas suspended an informal "channel of communications" with Washington.

The two nations have had chilly ties since Chavez took office in 1999, but Venezuela still exports 900,000 barrels of oil per day to its northern neighbour.
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
Reply
#5
I find it interesting that Maduro was ahead by about 10% points leading up the election.That he only won by a very narrow margin tells me something happened.Now,just what it is that happened,I wouldn't know.One thing can be counted on though.We will continue to reign down CHAOS on this Country.....

All my best wishes for the PEOPLE of Venezuela......
"You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.”
Buckminster Fuller
Reply
#6
Magda Hassan Wrote:Following the script perfectly.

Quote:Nicolas Maduro has narrowly won the Venezuelan presidency, but opposition leader Henrique Capriles has refused to recognise the results.

Venezuelan opposition leader Henrique Capriles has refused to recognise the election victory of acting President Nicolas Maduro in the race to succeed late leader Hugo Chavez.
"Today's loser is you," he told a news conference early on Monday, referring to Maduro, adding: "We won't recognise a result until every vote has been counted."
Chavez's hand-picked successor, Nicolas Maduro, won by a razor-thin margin in the special presidential election, edging Capriles by only about 300,000 votes, electoral officials announced.
Maduro, acting-president since Chavez's death, held a double-digit advantage just two weeks ago, but electoral officials said he got just 50.7 per cent of the votes to 49.1 per cent for Capriles.
Chavistas set off fireworks and blasted car horns as they cruised downtown Caracas in jubilation.
Maduro addressed a crowd from the presidential palace. He called his victory further proof that Chavez "continues to be invincible, that he continues to win battles".
He said Capriles had called him before the results were announced to suggest a "pact" and that Maduro refused.
Maduro, a longtime foreign minister to Chavez, rode a wave of sympathy for the charismatic leader to victory, pinning his hopes on the immense loyalty for his boss among millions of poor beneficiaries of government largesse and the powerful state apparatus that Chavez skillfully consolidated.
Capriles' main campaign weapon was to simply emphasise "the incompetence of the state" in handling the world's largest oil reserves.
Millions of Venezuelans were lifted out of poverty under Chavez, but many also believe his government not only squandered, but plundered, much of the $US1 trillion ($A956.62 billion) in oil revenues during his tenure.

Venezuelans are afflicted by chronic power outages, crumbling infrastructure, unfinished public works projects, double-digit inflation, food and medicine shortages, and rampant crime - one of the world's highest homicide and kidnapping rates - that the opposition said worsened after Chavez succumbed March 5 to cancer.
Quote:Nicolas Maduro, Venezuela's acting president says he has evidence that the US tried to destabilise the OPEC member nation. Venezuela's acting President Nicolas Maduro has said his government would provide "new direct evidence" of US interventionism in his country after he cast a vote in his bid to succeed Hugo Chavez.
Maduro, who was handpicked by Chavez to lead his nation, expelled two US military attaches the day the leftist leader died last month, and he accused former US officials of hatching a plot to kill him during the campaign.
"There are always difficulties with the United States because they are always plotting," he charged after voting in the presidential election pitting him against opposition leader Henrique Capriles.
"Tomorrow (Monday) we will present new direct evidence of interventionism in the domestic situation of Venezuela by US embassy officials," the former foreign minister and vice president said.
Shortly before he announced Chavez's death on March 5, Maduro had accused the two US military attaches of trying to recruit Venezuelan military officers to destabilise the OPEC member nation.
"What would happen if ... a Venezuelan military attache at the embassy in Washington started looking for soldiers in the Pentagon to reject (President Barack) Obama's authority or raise arms against Obama?" he said.
The two nations have not had ambassadors posted in each other's capitals since 2010.
Maduro said Venezuela was "always willing" to have better relations but that it would depend "on them respecting our country."
The United States expelled two Venezuelan diplomats in a tit-for-tat move last month. Nine days later, Caracas suspended an informal "channel of communications" with Washington.

The two nations have had chilly ties since Chavez took office in 1999, but Venezuela still exports 900,000 barrels of oil per day to its northern neighbour.

Aye. A "democratic" election is always the right time to get the right result ---- for those on the right.
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
Carl Jung - Aion (1951). CW 9, Part II: P.14
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#7

US refuses to accept Venezuela election result


Posted: Apr 17, 2013 4:09 AMUpdated: Apr 17, 2013 4:09 AM


By MATTHEW LEE
Associated PressWASHINGTON (AP) - The Obama administration is refusing to accept the official results of Venezuela's weekend presidential election, which gave victory to the protege of the country's late leftist leader Hugo Chavez.
The State Department said Tuesday that a full recount of the vote and an investigation into alleged irregularities were needed, given the close tally that almost evenly divided the country. On Monday, the U.S. had called for a full recount before results were certified but the election commission went ahead with certification without one.
The State Department said it was "difficult to understand" why the commission certified ruling party candidate Nicolas Maduro as the winner in the absence of a recount, which challenger Henrique Capriles is demanding.
It also condemned post-election violence that has killed at least seven people.
http://www.wistv.com/story/21993116/us-r...ion-result
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
Reply
#8
Bolivia's President Evo Morales says the United States is planning to stage a coup in Venezuela, condemning Washington's questioning of the Venezuelan presidential election results as interference.


In a press conference on Tuesday, the Bolivian president said that the US is getting ready for a coup d'état in Venezuela.

He also rejected the White House's moral authority to question electoral results worldwide, after Washington demanded Caracas to hold a full vote recount.

"I am certain that behind those remarks, the United States is preparing a coup d'état in Venezuela," said Morales.
"I would like to express that this is a flagrant US interference in Venezuela's democracy, as neither that spokesperson nor the US government has moral authority to question electoral results in any Latin American country or around the world."

Morales also confirmed that he would attend Nicolas Maduro's inauguration ceremony next Friday as a sign of support to the president-elect.

Since the electoral authority declared Maduro the winner, the opposition has staged several violent protests, leaving at least seven people dead and over 60 others injured.

Defeated Venezuelan presidential candidate Henrique Capriles cancelled a planned protest march for Wednesday after Maduro vowed he would not allow the rally to go ahead.

Maduro won the Sunday's presidential election by 50.8 percent of the votes against the opposition leader's 49 percent.

On March 8, Maduro became Venezuela's acting president, following the death of late President Hugo Chavez, who lost a two-year-long battle with cancer on March 5.

Maduro has promised to continue the socialist policies of the former leader.
http://presstv.com/detail/2013/04/17/298...a-bolivia/
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
Reply
#9
(Reuters) - Acting President Nicolas Maduro said on Friday that Venezuelan authorities have arrested several people suspected of plotting to sabotage one of his campaign rallies before an April 14 election by cutting the power.
Both sides have accused the other of dirty tricks during a bitter run-up to the vote to choose the successor to late socialist leader Hugo Chavez. Opinion polls give Maduro a double-digit lead over his opposition rival, Henrique Capriles.
"We've captured some of the saboteurs. ... One was caught red-handed," Maduro said in a televised meeting with commanders of the armed forces.
His late boss often dramatically unveiled alleged plots against his government, ranging from infrastructure sabotage to assassination plans.
"They were going to cut the electricity to the whole of Merida (state) while I was at the rally," Maduro added.
"Who is directing this war against our country? ... There are two options here: you are either for the fatherland or you're against it."
Maduro, who visited Merida on Wednesday, gave no other details about the arrests. He has ordered the military to tighten security at electricity installations.
Both sides are courting the military, which will play an important role in next Sunday's election by guarding the voting materials and polling centers.
Defense Minister Diego Molero has made statements pledging the loyalty of the armed forces to Maduro - something Capriles complains is unconstitutional.
Campaigning on the Caribbean island of Margarita this week, Capriles said it was the duty of the armed forces to protect the will of the people on April 14.
He frequently says soldiers suffer from many of the same daily problems that trouble all Venezuelans: high crime rates, inflation, and poor public services.
The vote in the South American OPEC member of 29 million people will decide not only the future of "Chavismo" socialism but also control of the world's biggest oil reserves and economic aid to a handful of left-leaning nations round the region.
The government held a ceremony at a military barracks on a Caracas hilltop to mark the exact one-month anniversary of Chavez's death from cancer. Soldiers played bugles and fired cannons in honor of the leader who was seen as a savior by millions but derided as an autocrat by his critics.
Maduro stood with top government officials and members of Chavez's family beside a marble sarcophagus where the former president's remains are encased.
FRAUD CLAIMS?
Capriles has also said that if he wins he will end "Cuban meddling" in the military. During his 14 years in power, Chavez forged close ties with communist-led Havana.
Capriles has demanded an explanation from the electoral authorities after the opposition said an audit of the voting system by both sides revealed the ruling Socialist Party had a confidential code to open 45,000 electronic polling machines.
Government officials say such allegations were laying the ground for the opposition to invent fraud claims after the vote, and that the code was only used for maintenance.
As the election nears, Capriles has gone on the attack against Maduro and his top officials, accusing them of being only "skin-deep" socialists who pay lip service to Chavez's ideology but are more interested in lining their pockets.
The government paints him as the puppet of a rich and venal Venezuelan elite and its "imperialist" friends in Washington.
On Friday, dozens of writers, artists and musicians attended an upbeat Capriles rally at a theater in a well-off Caracas neighborhood, taking the stage to sing, tell stories and read out messages calling for political change.
"I don't want this to end like this: a meeting between friends where we take some photos of each other and that's it," Capriles said, wearing a baseball cap and track suit top in the colors of the Venezuelan flag.
"I need this to go further. We have a historic opportunity."
(Additional reporting by Eyanir Chinea and Brian Ellsworth; Editing by Andrew Cawthorne and Philip Barbara)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/0...UT20130405
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
Reply
#10
Venezuela eyewitness: Maduro's uncomfortable victory



Tuesday, April 16, 2013


By Ryan Mallett-Outtrim, Merida




Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro after winning the April 14 elections.


The room erupted into cheers when the election results were announced. For hours, the city of Merida's most ardent supporters of socialist presidential candidate Nicolas Maduro had gathered in the local offices of the United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV). However, after a few moments, the closeness of the numbers sank in.
At the time of writing, the National Electoral Council (CNE) had announced that with 99% of votes counted, the PSUV's Maduro won with 50.6%. His closest rival, Henrique Capriles, received 49.1%; giving Maduro a slim 1.5% victory.
In the last presidential elections, Maduro's predecessor Hugo Chavez defeated Capriles the candidate of the US-backed right wing hostile to the Chavez-led Boliviaran revolution -- by just over 10%. Many supporters of the revolution were expecting a similar result.
Last month, a joint Barclays/Datanalisis report gave Maduro a 14.4% lead, while pollster Hinterlaces predicted his victory would be 18%.
Despite the unexpectedly close result, Chavistas celebrated outside the offices with fireworks and music. Throughout the city, carloads of supporters waved red flags, chanting slogans.
By midnight a crowd had gathered in the main square, but for a Chavista gathering it was uncharacteristically subdued. There was an air of uncertainty; despite a turnout of over 78%, Maduro not only fell short of his lofty goal of 10 million votes, but failed to deliver the overwhelming victory that most pundits expected.
Although Capriles had repeatedly stated during his election campaign that his victory was all but inevitable, the right-wing candidate likewise failed to live up to the expectations of many supporters.
At the time of writing, Capriles was yet to accept the results. "We are not going to recognise the result until every vote is counted, one by one," he stated on Venezuelan television. He further described Maduro's victory as "completely illegitimate", after previously accusing the government and CNE of undermining the voting process.
Likewise rejecting the results, Merida's opposition neighbourhoods became filled with the sound of cacerolazo; a form of protest involving the clapping of pots and pans outside windows. Despite the competing displays in the streets, no violence had been reported in Merida at the time of writing.
Throughout the day, Green Left Weekly visited a number of polling stations in Merida, and observed voting take place in an orderly manner. A strong military and police presence was maintained to keep the peace until late into the night, though many opposition supporters were seen grouped outside the largest station in Merida during the afternoon.
Accusing the government of trying to "interfere" with the ballots, Capriles encouraged supporters to remain on the streets after voting. He also called for an "avalanche" of opposition voters to descend on polling stations mid-afternoon; something which didn't happen at any stations visited by Green Left.
However, elsewhere in the country some disturbances were reported. In Sucre, Miranda state, Venezuela Analysis reported some "opposition led" violence, while El Universal reported an opposition youth leader had been detained by authorities for campaigning. All forms of electoral campaigning during the voting period is illegal in Venezuela.
The final week of campaigning was also marred by security threats, with the government announcing on April 12 that a plot to destabilise the country had been neutralised.
The previous day, during a series of early morning raids security forces uncovered a group of Colombian paramilitaries in possession of Venezuelan military uniforms, C4 explosives and 50 high capacity assault rifle magazines. Two arrests were made. [Bolding MH]
Even now that the vote is over, the general sense of uncertainty endures. Although Maduro stated in his victory speech that a new era for the revolution is beginning, it is yet to be seen if the government he leads will deepen the revolutionary process towards socialism, or pursues a more moderate agenda.
For now, however, Chavista street parties are continuing in Merida, while in Caracas thousands turned out to see Maduro's acceptance speech. Today's vote may have been less than the overwhelming victory hoped for, but it was a victory nonetheless.
[Ryan Mallett-Outtrim is a Green Left Weekly journalist based in Merida.]
http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/53830



"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
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