Some Misunderstandings Related to WTC Collapse Analysis

[Albert Doyle]

What persuaded you to so forcefully join JO side?

Posts like this. I'm not sure about Building 7. It could have been "pulled".


But Lauren don't you find your response here somewhat regressive and besides the point? The context of the Banfield video is that it captured alleged demolition explosions. Tony entered a classic mushy answer in response when he said that media microphones were bad at capturing blast signatures. But how could he say that when you have Banfield's microphone capturing the alleged demolition blasts? Tony once again enters an easily-refuted response that you let him get away with. It's one or the other, not both.

Unlike Jeffrey who seems to toy with the idea of a false flag, I know 9-11 was a wicked, deliberately-controlled operation. No doubt about it. The more I think about it the more I realize it was just a straight MIHOP op. However I sincerely believe the CD people might be wrong and the Towers fell on their own.


Does it bother you that you have so many people saying they heard loud booms but the enormous jet blasts coursing down the building were not captured on audio?

[Jeffrey Orling]

What persuaded you to so forcefully join JO side?

Posts like this. I'm not sure about Building 7. It could have been "pulled".


But Lauren don't you find your response here somewhat regressive and besides the point? The context of the Banfield video is that it captured alleged demolition explosions. Tony entered a classic mushy answer in response when he said that media microphones were bad at capturing blast signatures. But how could he say that when you have Banfield's microphone capturing the alleged demolition blasts? Tony once again enters an easily-refuted response that you let him get away with. It's one or the other, not both.

Unlike Jeffrey who seems to toy with the idea of a false flag, I know 9-11 was a wicked, deliberately-controlled operation. No doubt about it. The more I think about it the more I realize it was just a straight MIHOP op. However I sincerely believe the CD people might be wrong and the Towers fell on their own.


Does it bother you that you have so many people saying they heard loud booms but the enormous jet blasts coursing down the building were not captured on audio?

A MIHOP or a LIHOP does not require a CD. I don't discount either and am focused more and getting the collapse details/causes /collapses correct and then you can move on the how it came to pass... Of course CD is a short cut right to the inside job and why it appeals to many... I get it. But if it is a CD is better be a solid 100% iron clad case.

[Lauren Johnson]

What persuaded you to so forcefully join JO side?

Posts like this. I'm not sure about Building 7. It could have been "pulled".

But Lauren don't you find your response here somewhat regressive and besides the point? The context of the Banfield video is that it captured alleged demolition explosions. Tony entered a classic mushy answer in response when he said that media microphones were bad at capturing blast signatures. But how could he say that when you have Banfield's microphone capturing the alleged demolition blasts? Tony once again enters an easily-refuted response that you let him get away with. It's one or the other, not both.

Unlike Jeffrey who seems to toy with the idea of a false flag, I know 9-11 was a wicked, deliberately-controlled operation. No doubt about it. The more I think about it the more I realize it was just a straight MIHOP op. However I sincerely believe the CD people might be wrong and the Towers fell on their own.

Albert, you used to be much more inquisitive about Jeffrey's positions, as I quoted, then you turned into his fan boy. What happened? If Tony would have been here then, the Albert I knew would have been asking him questions. You don't seem like the same guy.

[Lauren Johnson]

Does it bother you that you have so many people saying they heard loud booms but the enormous jet blasts coursing down the building were not captured on audio?

My understanding of how the buildings came down has actually been influenced by Jeffrey's ROOSD explanation. Relatively quiet thermite charges and well placed explosives high up the building triggered the progressive collapse. But remember there were witnesses (many) who claimed to hear these explosives.

Why weren't these charges picked up on they many mics. From what I understand from both Tony and Jeffrey, WTC 1 & 2 were easier to bring down. All you needed was a mass of material reaching sufficient velocity to hit the lower floors and you Bobs your Uncle. WTC 7 really did require the blowing of massive beams; a ROOSD collapse would not have been possible.

I know Jeffrey thinks he can pin it down to the one beam that started it all that would trigger the nice, neat symmetrical collapse. Come on. That dog won't hunt.

[Jeffrey Orling]

Does it bother you that you have so many people saying they heard loud booms but the enormous jet blasts coursing down the building were not captured on audio?

My understanding of how the buildings came down has actually been influenced by Jeffrey's ROOSD explanation. Relatively quiet thermite charges and well placed explosives high up the building triggered the progressive collapse. But remember there were witnesses (many) who claimed to hear these explosives.

Why weren't these charges picked up on they many mics. From what I understand from both Tony and Jeffrey, WTC 1 & 2 were easier to bring down. All you needed was a mass of material reaching sufficient velocity to hit the lower floors and you Bobs your Uncle. WTC 7 really did require the blowing of massive beams; a ROOSD collapse would not have been possible.

I know Jeffrey thinks he can pin it down to the one beam that started it all that would trigger the nice, neat symmetrical collapse. Come on. That dog won't hunt.

Lauren,

I think 7 was not the destruction of one steel member down at the mech floors. These member were massive and not going to weaken from heat... perhaps maybe cutting torches but the were very thick.. I would guess it would be a big job and many hours.

However... those massive steel sections were joined with gussten plates and bolts and some welds in places. Those connection plates WERE vulnerable to heat or cutters and even devices. But once a truss fails... like a truss bridge which loses one connection or chord... the whole thing completely collapse. You betcha! One of those trusses collapse will cause the structure to twist and it will pull other members attached to it and the failure will race though the mech floors and everything these massive structures supported will drop like a lead sinker. leaving the perimeter columns holding onto the curtain wall and nothing to support them.

Yes 7 could be a relatively small attack of a few connecting plates and then it's all she wrote.

[Lauren Johnson]

Yes 7 could be a relatively small attack of a few connecting plates and then it's all she wrote.

Are we talking about a relatively small attack of a few connecting plates as in a CD kind of an attack?

[Jeffrey Orling]

Yes 7 could be a relatively small attack of a few connecting plates and then it's all she wrote.

Are we talking about a relatively small attack of a few connecting plates as in a CD kind of an attack?

As I've said all along for all the towers a CD can do what heat does.. weaken and destroy the integrity of the frame. When that gone, load paths are caput and the mass drops.

We don't have evidence of what attacked the connections of 7. We can see in all three collapses 99.999% or the steel only shows connection or joint failures... the steel sections... wide flanges or channels or plates or box are pretty much intact... some boxes had their plate welds fail from mechanically "banging around" in the collapse.

We do see connecting plates and gussets ripped, bent, torn, twists... bolt holes enlarges from pull though in some cases.... fillet welds broken like zippers.

The conclusion is the connections were the weak links... they failed and the frame could not perform. We can't see exactly what destroyed or how the suspect connections... those that were in the *initiation* region failed... if we had evidence of them... it's like we could see if it was a bomb or some cutter device. I couldn't tell, but I am sure others can who know how. I do know no conclusive evidence of device destroyed connections have been presented by those that claim CD.

Does that answer your question about my use of the term "attack"?

[Tony Szamboti]

There were no kingpins in the twin towers. These were highly redundant structures, including the connections, and random heating would not have worked to break things loose. Getting enough momentum going in all three cases required significant assistance in the beginning of the collapses for overloading of floors and a cascade causing columns to be unsupported etc. to then finish the job of destroying the buildings.

The connections are the weakest link in any structure, but the word weakest does not mean weak. It is relative to the other items and if the weakest link can handle several times the load, the structure is considered robust by any measure.

There were also no kingpins in WTC 7, and in that case its top section did act like a pile driver after its momentum was generated by eight stories of its entire core being pulled symmetrically between floors 7 through 14.

[Jeffrey Orling]

There were no kingpins in the twin towers. These were highly redundant structures, including the connections, and random heating would not have worked to break things loose. Getting enough momentum going in all three cases required significant assistance in the beginning of the collapses for overloading of floors and a cascade causing columns to be unsupported etc. to then finish the job of destroying the buildings.

The connections are the weakest link in any structure, but the word weakest does not mean weak. It is relative to the other items and if the weakest link can handle several times the load, the structure is considered robust by any measure.

There were also no kingpins in WTC 7, and in that case its top section did act like a pile driver after its momentum was generated by eight stories of its entire core being pulled symmetrically between floors 7 through 14.

Whatever you say...

Please describe what this is:

eight stories of its entire core being pulled symmetrically between floors 7 through 14

Betcha you can't and you can't find a shred of evidence to support this in any of the debris. I know they sold it for scrap.

[Tony Szamboti]

There were no kingpins in the twin towers. These were highly redundant structures, including the connections, and random heating would not have worked to break things loose. Getting enough momentum going in all three cases required significant assistance in the beginning of the collapses for overloading of floors and a cascade causing columns to be unsupported etc. to then finish the job of destroying the buildings.

The connections are the weakest link in any structure, but the word weakest does not mean weak. It is relative to the other items and if the weakest link can handle several times the load, the structure is considered robust by any measure.

There were also no kingpins in WTC 7, and in that case its top section did act like a pile driver after its momentum was generated by eight stories of its entire core being pulled symmetrically between floors 7 through 14.

Whatever you say...

Please describe what this is:

eight stories of its entire core being pulled symmetrically between floors 7 through 14

Betcha you can't and you can't find a shred of evidence to support this in any of the debris. I know they sold it for scrap.

The evidence is in the video showing the eight stories of symmetric free fall of the entire building, which starts when the west penthouse is just dropping and not even below the roofline. That can only have been caused by eight stories of the core being removed.

Please don't try to say the perimeter columns came down on their own after being left unsupported and that it couldn't have been the entire core as the east penthouse came down seven seconds before. These things could not be true as if the east side core had come down fully to the ground when the east penthouse went down the east side perimeter columns would have also come down. The fact that the east side perimeter did not come down with the east side penthouse shows the penthouse collapse was only into the building at the top. The entire core of WTC 7 was being dropped when the west penthouse went down and it pulled in the perimeter columns across the building over eight stories, resulting in a complete symmetrical free fall for over 100 feet of the entire building.