John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee

[Magda Hassan]

You are aware of the TIPPIT to Tippit call about HARVEY's father and uncle being NYC communists?

DJ

Yes! The Tippet phone call post assassination is very intruging. Can't remember which book/s it was in now....?

[James Norwood]

David and Magda: Yes, the call placed from Mrs. Jack Tippit (whose husband was a relative of slain officer J. D. Tippit) to the FBI comes to us from an actual FBI report. (David: I regret that I'm not a computer whiz like you; otherwise I would paste up the document right here.) On Saturday, November 23, 1963, an anonymous female caller traveled from New York to Westport, CT to phone Mrs. Tippit in order for the call not to be traced. The caller related the story about the father and uncle of the alleged suspect and still-living Lee Harvey Oswald, who were "Hungarians and Communists" who had lived in Yorkville in the Upper East Side of Manhattan.

The story takes on special significance when we come to the time in 1952, when Marguerite and Lee peremptorily move from Fort Worth to New York. The move disrupts the period of Lee's youth in which he had the greatest stability in his home life and continuity in his education. The arrival in New York of Marguerite and Lee brings into focus the research conducted by David into the appearance of two boys named Lee Harvey Oswald in New York. The combination of school records, eyewitness testimony, and photographic evidence reveals for the first time the existence of the two Oswald boys. In this period, a veil is lifted for us to at least glimpse the workings of the Oswald Project, whose objective was to place a Russian-speaking American spy in the Soviet Union at the height of the Cold War. The project was in its embryonic stage in New York City in 1952-53, and it culminated in the defection of the Marine "Harvey" Oswald in 1959.


James

[David Josephs]

David and Magda: Yes, the call placed from Mrs. Jack Tippit (whose husband was a relative of slain officer J. D. Tippit) to the FBI comes to us from an actual FBI report. (David: I regret that I'm not a computer whiz like you; otherwise I would paste up the document right here.) On Saturday, November 23, 1963, an anonymous female caller traveled from New York to Westport, CT to phone Mrs. Tippit in order for the call not to be traced. The caller related the story about the father and uncle of the alleged suspect and still-living Lee Harvey Oswald, who were "Hungarians and Communists" who had lived in Yorkville in the Upper East Side of Manhattan.

The story takes on special significance when we come to the time in 1952, when Marguerite and Lee peremptorily move from Fort Worth to New York. The move disrupts the period of Lee's youth in which he had the greatest stability in his home life and continuity in his education. The arrival in New York of Marguerite and Lee brings into focus the research conducted by David into the appearance of two boys named Lee Harvey Oswald in New York. The combination of school records, eyewitness testimony, and photographic evidence reveals for the first time the existence of the two Oswald boys. In this period, a veil is lifted for us to at least glimpse the workings of the Oswald Project, whose objective was to place a Russian-speaking American spy in the Soviet Union at the height of the Cold War. The project was in its embryonic stage in New York City in 1952-53, and it culminated in the defection of the Marine "Harvey" Oswald in 1959.


James

I wish my paper files were as organized as my electronic ones....

from JA's H&L. If you haven't already - the NYC youth house and truancy court docs are fascinating... all at Poage

To come full circle, it is more likely that just the boy was introduced into the scenario, in late October 52... with the real MO...
and before the real MO and LEE leave NYC - the MO caretaker and HARVEY go their way back to the "Ft. Worth - NOLA two-step"...

So HARVEY has a different name.. a smart boy, high IQ, is taught how to play the part.... and as we notice, HARVEY is always one step ahead or to the side of LEE..

One POV I like to take is that H&L provides the details of how these programs were carried out...
The houses/apartments MO stayed in, MOST are gone... the trails are logical but cold, should anyone care to follow them.

Quite brilliant actually...

(NOTE: when exhumed, the autopsied head of LHO did NOT have a craniotomy which Rose knows he performed, not the scars we knew LEE had accumulated.
just sayin... :hock:: )


DJ

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5549[/ATTACH]

[Martin White]

(NOTE: when exhumed, the autopsied head of LHO did NOT have a craniotomy which Rose knows he performed, not the scars we knew LEE had accumulated.
just sayin... :hock:: )


DJ

Would autopsy photos normally show the head after the craniotomy? Or is there an autopsy photo showing the head stitched back up?

[Bruce Baird]

Hey David and James,

You guys have asked a lot of interesting questions about NYC, Ft. Worth, Myra Darouse, Ed Voebel, etc. I'll take a quick break to start responding to your questions, but rather than answer them each fully (which would take a lot of time), I'll answer with what I have from my working hypothesis, a timeline that I have already worked up, and what other additional information I can remember off the top of my head. I will also ask questions that maybe you two might have answers to that could help me sort through the evidence. I will refer to "Lee" and "Harvey" for the time being for the sake of keeping the two distinct, although I am highly suspect of references that claim either one of the Oswalds went by the name "Harvey".

This post I'll address what I have on NYC.

On NYC, my working hypothesis is that "Lee" and the "real" Marguerite moved to NYC in late August 1952 and lived there until January 1954. I further believe that, if you ignore certain pieces of evidence that I find questionable, all the references to LHO in the extant records of NYC refer solely to "Lee". There were no two Oswalds until January 1954. The questionable evidence includes:

(1) Policewoman Felicia Shpritzer of the Youth Division of the 48th detective squad (Bathgate Avenue, Bronx) picks up a boy named Lee Harvey Oswald and serves him with the outstanding warrant for truancy (Armstrong, Harvey and Lee p. 54). Armstrong cites Alfred Robbins, NY Journal American, section 7, p. 1, but I can find no such reference to Shpritzer. The only article I can find by for Robbins related to the JFK assassination supports single gunman [Alfred Robbins, "Who Killed President Kennedy? Who Was the Man in the Doorway?", New York Journal-American, Sun., May 24, 1964, p. 16-L] [http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/White%20M...20119.pdf]

(2) the Bronx Zoo photograph that Robert Oswald claims to have taken of LHO in summer 1953 although back of photo reads "1952" (Armstrong, Harvey and Lee p. 65-66). I have no idea who this person is. If this is "Harvey" from 1952 or 1953, this does not mean that there actually was a "Harvey" in 1952 or 1953, only that Robert Oswald was in on the conspiracy.

(3) Marguerite hires housekeeper Louise Robertson for six weeks to clean apartment 2-3 days per week (Armstrong, Harvey and Lee p. 69). Actually I don't think this bit of evidence actually affects by hypothesis one way or another. I just found it rather spurious.

(4) sightings of Harvey Oswald in Stanley, ND in the Summer of 1953 (Armstrong, Harvey and Lee p. 69-72). I have done a whole bunch of work on North Dakota, especially focusing on what Aline Mosby actually wrote and when she actually wrote it. Mosby first broke the story of LHO going to North Dakota. I have combed all the quotes that she attributes to LHO in the two 1959 UPI articles, the 1963 UPI article, and her subsmission to the Warren Commission. I am still waiting on a copy of L'Express in which she published yet another version of the story of the 1959 interview based on her original notes. I bought a copy a couple of weeks ago from Europe and when it gets here I'll go through it and publish the results. The rest of the claims for North Dakota I find rather suspect and even if "Harvey" had lived in North Dakota, I don't believe he necessarily would have had to have gone by the name Oswald at the time to be able to tell that story. In other words, if the North Dakota reference is real, this might be a pre-"Harvey" "Harvey"!

(5) all the psychiatrists and NYC officials, including Dr. Milton Kurion, who claimed from November 1963 (or a later date) that a decade (or more) earlier they remember a very short, emaciated, concentration camp survivor LHO. I won't go into details about these psychiatrists and NYC officials here or why I think their memory was faulty. But in this instance I prefer to trust the original records (wherever the originals may be in FBI heaven) as more believable and they all describe a healthy boy of average height.

(6) report cards showing LHO attending Beauregard Junior High School in the fall of 1953. I will have to cover the evidence against this in a separate post.

So I have a question for David. You know the NYC records a lot better than I do. If you exclude these "questionable" pieces of evidence, can all the other evidence for LHO from August 1952 through January 1954 be explained by just one Oswald? Or are there records which suggest more than one Oswald at the same time? I would really like to see an exact chronology of what we know about LHO in NYC to see if there are any discrepancies.

[Peter Lemkin]

(NOTE: when exhumed, the autopsied head of LHO did NOT have a craniotomy which Rose knows he performed, not the scars we knew LEE had accumulated.
just sayin... :hock:: )


DJ

Would autopsy photos normally show the head after the craniotomy? Or is there an autopsy photo showing the head stitched back up?

Never mind about photos.....those examining the body at exhumation NOTED [and they were trained to note such things] that the craniotomy was not present [i.e. had not been performed on that head!]....meaning to me a different head or a different body was either buried or exhumed, than the one Rose did the original autopsy on!!!!! Photos are nice, but they can be of the original body, a substituted body or manipulated to show things that weren't there in reality [or remove those that were]. This entire case is fraught with such body manipulation and substitution [living and dead].

[Martin White]

Peter,

My question, although clumsily constructed, was aimed at producing documented evidence that Rose did a craniotomy on Oswald. For all I know that might well exist already? I have never seen an autopsy report for Oswald.

thanks

Martin

[David Josephs]

Peter,

My question, although clumsily constructed, was aimed at producing documented evidence that Rose did a craniotomy on Oswald. For all I know that might well exist already? I have never seen an autopsy report for Oswald.

thanks

Martin

Commission Exhibit 3002 is the typed autopsy report for OSWALD. It ends with the brain weight and detailed description of his brain. It does not say outright that a craniotomy was performed, yet it also does not state his brain came out by any other means.... leaving us to make a pretty good assumption.

Martin et al... the very questioning helps spark thought to suggest an answer and pursue its meaning and corroboration..... and even then we find that the tables can be turned.

The lengths taken to conceal who the man Ruby killed really was, and the ignoring of LEE interacting with key members of the same circles suggests planning
and a very real need to conceal...

HOOVER had agents get Oswald's JHS records from 10 years prior, on Nov 23, 1963... less than 8 hours after OSWALD is formally charged with JFK's murder, in order they would not be found.

If anyone can answer for that without H&L a reality enacted in 1952 (planned well in advance as so many people are migrating to the US post WWII) carried thru and substantiated by the WCR records themselves... with the same men who came out of WWII in a position to continue/initiate the activity...

IDK gentlemen and ladies. I actually went as far as to research to field work into James Earl Ray's education... and life for that matter...
not nearly the page turner as Oswald... nor nearly as important.

Let's put it this way, it either exists or was set up to look as if it does... whether it's one other LEE" playing the lead role or 10... with back stories and intrigue...
the Oswald killed was not the man pulling any triggers... and for that he was silenced.

He didn't talk over that weekend. He must have believed he was getting out of it if he kept his mouth shut, or he really did not know exactly how he was set up... only that he was.
Voice stress says he spoke the truth about being a patsy... nothing in the interrogation notes be they real or padded suggests any knowledge of a plot...

Which means LEE is at ODIO's with Hernandez and ??? I forget the name.

OK, rant over... ::

Saw the movie "NOW YOU SEE IT" with the central message from the magician: "Get closer, real close... closer you are the less you see"

The farther we step back from JFK the event and see it as JFK the puzzle piece, the more context we may discover...

DJ

[Jim Hargrove]

There is new information from just the last few days sure to be of interest to those following the research of John Armstrong about Harvey and Lee Oswald.

It concerns the International Rescue Committee (IRC), which was founded in 1946 by Leo Cherne following a request by Albert Einstein. For four decades, from 1951 to the early 1990s, Cherne served as IRC chairman and seemed to have reasonably obvious CIA ties. In its first year, 1946, the IRC began resettling Eastern European WWII refugees to the United States, including children.

The startling new information involves an FBI report from 12/9/63 indicating that six days earlier an IRC official had informed the NYC FBI office that the IRC had "information pertaining to OSWALD and that same would be made available to Special Agents of the New York Office." This is clearly another fascinating indication that Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald may have been removed from Europe as a child and resettled in the U.S.

JA has worked up several drafts examining the new information, and his finished report should be up on harveyandlee.net within a few days. Thanks to all here for keeping interest in John's work alive.

Jim

[Peter Lemkin]

There is new information from just the last few days sure to be of interest to those following the research of John Armstrong about Harvey and Lee Oswald.

It concerns the International Rescue Committee (IRC), which was founded in 1946 by Leo Cherne following a request by Albert Einstein. For four decades, from 1951 to the early 1990s, Cherne served as IRC chairman and seemed to have reasonably obvious CIA ties. In its first year, 1946, the IRC began resettling Eastern European WWII refugees to the United States, including children.

The startling new information involves an FBI report from 12/9/63 indicating that six days earlier an IRC official had informed the NYC FBI office that the IRC had "information pertaining to OSWALD and that same would be made available to Special Agents of the New York Office." This is clearly another fascinating indication that Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald may have been removed from Europe as a child and resettled in the U.S.

JA has worked up several drafts examining the new information, and his finished report should be up on harveyandlee.net within a few days. Thanks to all here for keeping interest in John's work alive.

Jim

THAT is quite a find!! But amazing that at age ~7 there is a seemingly special FBI/intelligence interest in him [or anyone of that age, for that matter]! Seems to strengthen greatly the H&L scenario, IMO.